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Original poster

Family court and reduction in contact for private nursery

298 replies

ThisMustBeMyDream · 04/12/2018 13:07

My other half is in family court tomorrow. He's self representing. It's a contested final hearing.

He recieved his ex's position statement which states she will agree no increase to current contact (which we expected). But that she wants to discuss a reduction in contact to facilitate the child going to private nursery 5 days a week as she wishes to go back to work. She is offering the bog standard every other weekend with one evening for dinner but must stay locally. The child is currently 22 months old.

He currently has 3 days wed/thur/Fri with an overnight in week 1 and Fri Sat sun in week 2 with an overnight. He wants to increase contact to add the additional overnights in.

He has no issue with her going to nursery. But since he already has this contact and he can care for the child instead of her going to nursery, how could this go down in a final hearing?

He has to prepare himself as self rep - and needs to work out how to address it without coming across badly. Any tips or experience with this?

OP posts:
MissMalice · 06/12/2018 17:54

Some really bloody awful posts on here. There is never, ever any excuse for domestic violence. Not if it’s a “one off”, not if “emotions are running high”. “Be grateful”? Are you for real?!

PrettyLovely · 06/12/2018 17:56

Ohreallyohreally are you serious Shock it really does sound like you are excusing her!
That is by far NO REASON AT ALL to punch someone repeatedly!
If a woman would have described that kind of violence from a man you certainly wouldnt get the reaction of he only did it once and decent people lash out at far less!
Gobsmacked with the sexiest comments on this thread Shock

PrettyLovely · 06/12/2018 18:05

Sexist **

TheFishInThePot · 06/12/2018 18:24

stokieginge I didn't say he felt guilty, he was very clingy, even as a small toddler, then he relaxed a lot when he was allowed to stay home for longer.

I was just explaining why I could understand the court saying it's too close to shared care.

My child had no reason to feel guilty I have a full life and certainly didn't say anything to make him feel guilty for having a few days away from me. I was happy with the arrangement and just thought he was a clingy child until he started to speak up (even then I thought it was a phase of not wanting to go there, and waited for him to grow out of it for over a year before I broached it seriously with his Dad) then we changed it (by age 5), now he's much happier and never says any more that he doesn't want to go to his Dad's

Sorry that doesn't fit in with your idea that all children are the same and none need a main carer to feel secure.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 06/12/2018 18:27

Why is it sexist? I am not excusing her, totally unacceptable. Plenty of men who have put their wives in hospital - more than once - have court ordered contact with their children.

There are plenty of people who have behaved irrationally in the face of heightened emotions, particularly fear, when relationships breakdown. People who were otherwise good parents who had a momentary slip or lapse in judgement. It’s not OK to lash out, particularly in front of children. But it happens.

stokieginge · 06/12/2018 18:28

@TheFishInThePot you missed my point

PrettyLovely · 06/12/2018 18:52

You were excusing her ohreally, I think you should re-read your post and see how it comes across.
Plenty of sexist comments on here as I previously said you wouldnt down play it like you did if it was a female repeatedly hit by a man.
I also dont understand your comment on plenty of men who have hit their partners get to see their kids I dont believe they would have very good contact from my experience.
In my case when my ex assaulted me in front of our child he was told he could have supervised contact by social services.
There is never any reason to behave that way, especially in front of children especially when someone is holding your child. Outrageous!

ghostsandghoulies · 06/12/2018 19:07

Plenty of dads who've hit mums get the typical amount of contact (EOW and mid week plus alternate Xmas. ) I think it's in the child's interest not to spend so much time driven by her Dad and the overnights to reduce the amount that she travels make sense.

I think it's shocking that having a half sibling (step sibling?) trumps seeing the other parent and the alternate extended family every year.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 06/12/2018 19:09

I take the point. I am not excusing her. I am glad your experience was better than mine. My ex hit me and promptly called the police to say I had hit him! Long story short, he has always had contact. I don’t like the way he treats our children but what he did to me was in the throws of our marriage breakdown and was never repeated. Shit happens. People make mistakes. I am not sure they should we should be punishing children because of it.

MissMalice · 06/12/2018 19:09

The problem with DV is total inconsistency of dealing with it. An attitude of “it happens” is not helpful in making sure it’s dealt with properly.

lifebegins50 · 06/12/2018 19:14

#stokieginge, As long as a child is loved, what does it matter who is providing the love, be that biological mum, step mum, dads gf, dads wife

It really does matter.. Children especially young children need firm attachments. All the research bear that out.

My ds, despite being confident, does not like to be away from his main home for any extended time, he is fine with his dad but not for long periods. He is better when away on holidays with his Dad however will contact me often.

Bowlby attachment theory has influenced child rearing and had lead to changes in society as a result. Dads definitely play an important part but are not (mostly) the main attachment person.

lifebegins50 · 06/12/2018 19:16

I should say that I actually crave solo time so no way do I make him feel guilty for being away...It just seems to be something that is within him and he is was absolutely not a clingy baby and went to nursery.

MissMalice · 06/12/2018 19:20

That’s a limited understanding of attachment theory.

OhComeOnRon · 06/12/2018 19:29

It's not always Mum though.
My stepson is with us 3 nights a week Fri-Mon has been since age of 2. Holidays on top. Mum sees him before and after school during the week and half of holidays.
He's 9 and has zero interest in staying at mums for the weekend. Which is sad, and is completely orchestrated by Mum who didn't want to change contact when he started school.
So I would say he doesn't really have a 'main' home, he just has 2 homes.

PrettyLovely · 06/12/2018 19:34

I am sorry your experience wasnt the same as mine ohreally the police and social services took it very serious in my case, as it should be taken.
Its extremely harmful for children to witness violence I dont think that it can be described as shit happens in break ups, that person cannot keep their hands to themselves when under stress and that is a problem that they need to tackle.
My ex has since assaulted his new partner because again he cant keep his hands to himself when under stress. I think if u did it once you are likely to do it again. I am glad for you your ex hasnt done it since to yourself or anyone you know but he still could because he is capable of it previously.

Children do need to be protected from violence happening around them and it should always be taken very seriously.

TwistedStitch · 06/12/2018 19:36

It isn't always Mum but that doesn't mean that carers are easily interchangeable and that all a child needs is love, that's just glib IMO. I was loved through my childhood but the severed attachment with my primary carer at a young age damaged me very much and has had lasting impact through to adulthood.

Queenofthedrivensnow · 06/12/2018 19:42

He just said he can see why dad's walk away when faced with this absolute crap in family court.

Really? Really? Just wow.

Going to go against the grain here and say I agree with the magistrate. In my opinion shared care is crap especially for little children. They need one main home and routine and routine quality time with the nrp. Before they go to school for some children masses of contact is viable but it's not sustainable.

The op partner could have argued xmas. I insisted on Xmas day being split so one year I get Xmas eve and half Xmas day and the following the other half of Xmas day and Boxing Day. This has worked well for us. Not seeing my child on Xmas day every other year would be unbearable.

stokieginge · 06/12/2018 19:43

@lifebegins50 clearly haven't read the thread completely to understand my comment.

It was in relation to the bashing of the top involved step mum. And everyone bashing other people rather than raising them up.

The point being as long as the child is treated well and loved that sure be all that matters

Queenofthedrivensnow · 06/12/2018 19:45

Bowlby attachment theory has influenced child rearing and had lead to changes in society as a result. Dads definitely play an important part but are not (mostly) the main attachment person

Also.....what?

TwistedStitch · 06/12/2018 19:47

But it isn't all that matters. Otherwise the courts would be ordering babies away from their mothers for half the time, after all Dad treats them well and loves them too. But that doesn't happen because it is recognised that it would be damaging to such a young child.

MissMalice · 06/12/2018 19:48

Going to go against the grain here and say I agree with the magistrate

You agree with an unqualified legal professional, without all the facts, and are dismissing the fact that social services AND CAFCASS (social workers who will have studied child development, unlike the magistrate) both felt that the level of contact was appropriate and should increase.

TwistedStitch · 06/12/2018 19:49

I thought OP said the Cafcass report was against shared care, although not adverse to it in future if things going well? Possible that the mother gave arguments that it wasn't going well.

MissMalice · 06/12/2018 19:49

it would be damaging to such a young child.

Could be. Not would be.

stokieginge · 06/12/2018 19:52

Honestly some of the people on the thread render me speechless. All I can say is that I hope, that should you & your DP split up that your DC are lucky enough to have a SP who cares for them as much as the OP appears to her DSC. And not the wicked SM you're somehow making her out to be.

And that all of the fathers continue to fight for their DC despite the obstacles I can only imagine you'll inflect upon them.

Honestly. This is exactly what is wrong with the world. People are constantly knocking people down. We're all women. We're meant to build each other up. As long as a child is loved, what does it matter who is providing the love, be that biological mum, step mum, dads gf, dads wife.

@TwistedStitch what are you struggling to understand?! This was my initial comment. I was talking about the bashing of a step mum, as I clearly say. As long as the child is love why does it matter if the person providing the love is the child's biological mum or not.

MissMalice · 06/12/2018 19:59

Possible that the mother gave arguments that it wasn't going well.

If that was the case, why increase Dad’s overnights?

Honestly the whole thing just sounds like a typical shambles hearing by rushed magistrates seeing unrepresented litigants in cases that are not straightforward.