What's your opinion on maintenance?

[Mamamc123]

Nothing wrong here and not asking for advice as such, just a difference in opinion during a discussion tonight and I wondered what everyone else's views are on how maintenance money is used and what it's expected to cover?
My friend and I are both mothers to our own bio kids and I am also SM to my DPs kids.
Friend was moaning how her ExH doesn't contribute enough financially to her daughter's expenses - he pays well above what the CSA calculator suggests and his daughter wants for nothing whilst she's with him.
She expects him on top of that to buy half of the children's clothes, school uniforms, shoes, activities/ clubs, extra childcare etc - which is exactly what my DP does for my DSDs.
However I think it's unreasonable to expect this much when a regular and fair amount of maintence is being paid and custody is split.
My ExH pays maintence for our children but in my opinion it is for all of those things and I don't expect him to "top-up" anywhere else. I don't think it's fair for a father to be paying for the mother to look after her own children when they are with her if that makes sense? I don't pay my ExH for the kids food etc when they are there.
If something like an expensive school trip or one off big expense then I think it's fair to go 50/50 on that, but in general if you're receiving 100s in maintence every month then you shouldn't always expect more.
Ps: I'm not talking about men who shirk their responsibilities or don't pay - I mean honest good dad's who pay their fair percentage of income and see their kids regularly.
What do you all think?

PigletWasPoohsFriend

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, it was assuming it was with her exh payrise

Glitterbaby17

Obviously those situations do happen, but I was talking about a exh maintenance payments, if he was a high earner, not actually anything to do with private school or step children

The government didn't just chose a random % as the amount that should be paid. It is actually based on the NRP paying a 50% contribution of the additional costs for the additional time that the childen are with RP.

It’s very unfair for a child to go from a very comfortable standard of living 100% of the time, to suddenly only having that lifestyle at dad’s house every other weekend. A good dad would not let his DC suffer a massive drop in standard of living as well as the upset of a divorce

That’s a very nice idea, but not usually achievable in reality. In a ‘together family’, all the earnings go into one pot, and this may well produce a comfortable lifestyle. But with a separated couple, that same amount of earnings now has to buy/run two houses, so it’s inevitable there will be a drop in living standards somewhere. One parent will usually have a better income/lifestyle than the other, so of course the children will only have access to that lifestyle part of the time.

Petal that's not the context of my original comment at all if you read the whole thing. Clearly most couples are not filthy rich and so there will be economies to make. I was addressing OP's suggestion that £350 is a generous contribution "regardless of income". I was making the point that somewhere in that "regardless of income" will be a millionaire who is happy to see is DC live in a tiny flat most of the time but that's OK because his £350 a month contribution is "generous".

You also missed off the crucial "when it is in his power to prevent it" from the bit of my comment that you copied and pasted which does directly answer your point that it's not always achievable in reality.

Fair enough Bluebird.

MY ex earns over £120K and pays £450 pcm for 2 DCs - this is crap.

It does not cover his share of the child care bill that I have due to him seeing them less than 52 days per year, no holidays, no weekends etc.

His maintenance I consider his child care bill for crap parenting, everything else is paid for by me.

It sucks - when you consider how much his disposable income is.

I think the OP makes a valid point that is being missed - all too often the parent receiving CS believes that the amount should cover ALL child related expenses - meaning they don't contribute at all.
In my DH case, I don't believe for a second (and evidenced by how his children are dressed, and they have no expensive hobbies) that £1400 per month is spent on them, in fact nowhere near. (My DH pays £700 per month CS via CMS)

The children's mother earns the same as DH but she is clearly not contributing the same and he covers all costs (she has confirmed this in writing!)

We have his two children EOW.

I agree that it should be 50/50 budget and spent accordingly. Whatever that cost determines what is reasonable or not .£450 x 2 ie £900 a month on two young children when mum at home or receiving 70% towards childcare costs does seem quite a lot. £900 when childcare alone is over £500 is not a lot.

swing - £450 pcm on a salary of 120K!

I work like a dog. My child care costs are not that high to be honest. By the time you factor in morning school drop offs, after school and the one weekend per month i work all weekend. The half the summer hols, easter hols etc.

£7400 per annum on childminder stuff - £3700 each
Holiday activity weeks £150 per child for min of 3 half terms,one easter week and 4 summer weeks, 1 Xmas week - £1350 - £745 each

Ex share £4450 he pays £5400 per annum for 2 kids!

That gives me £1350 to cover the emergency child care when he fails to turn up always and i am working, half clothe, fully feed, pay for all clubs - his orders, they should learn to swim, play tennis and other stuff, treats travel, hair cuts etc etc for 2 children.
£675 per annum : £12.79 per week, £1.85 per day does not even cover their school meals

Effing joke!
Thank god i have a training and can provide for my children because feckless fathers who deny thier children the basics are the pits.

And next term is the school residential trip!!!!

I think I'm in the maintenance is to cover everything camp. I'm also in the don't take maintenance for granted camp.

Before someone starts calling me a bitter step mother or whatever, I'll point out that me and dp both pay out and receive (well we will soon I hope) maintenance. They are both his children, one lives with us, the other with her mum.

Now, because oh earns more than his ex, he pays more maintenance for his daughter, than he will be getting for his son. We also have another child to support where as his ex does not.

Now, before his son moved in we paid maintenance for him too, we were also expected to contribute for school uniform, trips, and basically anything else ex could think of asking for. Now, funnily enough, she is in the maintenance covers everything camp because she has to pay it.

Fair enough, to be honest I'm quite happy to buy his school uniform and pay for his trips etc. I kind of expect that, when a child lives with you and you're already getting money towards these things, that you have to pay for them.

It just riles me that minds can be so quickly changed.

I think when it comes to maintenance people can very easily stop thinking about their child, and start thinking of their bank balance.

.....ex wife once 'invoiced' DH for £1.25p for a school bingo ticket which stepson (8) lost whilst on a visit to our home..... despite receiving £700 pcm from DH and earning over 50k per annum herself.

Obsessed with money and how much more she can get!

if he is happy to pay it i really dont see how it is any of your business. i think it is great when this happens, you hear so often of self employed people who lie about how much they earn so they can pay the bare minimum for their child. It is down to everyone's individual circumstances, i am quite lucky that i can ask for extra money for trips and uniform etc but i am also aware my ex earns more than he declares.

My DH earns more than he declares, but pays more than the CSA minimum, plus a lot of extras, and everyone seems quite happy with the arrangement.

Maintenance is a difficult topic.

In my opinion, the NRP should do what they can to give more, but I also think this shouldn't be at the expense of the life the children have when they're at the NRP's.

If you're paying out more but it results in you only being stuck living with your own parents, or only able to afford a studio flat with no room for your kids to stay, then that's not sustainable.

If I were being paid maintenance, I would expect it to cover all expenses except big extras like expensive school trips or a new school uniform in September etc.

if I were being paid maintenance, I would expect it to cover all expenses except big extras like expensive school trips or a new school uniform in September

Maintenance isn’t supposed to cover all expenses, both parents are supposed to help support the child, it’s a joint effort!

Maintenance isn’t supposed to cover all expenses, both parents are supposed to help support the child, it’s a joint effort!

Sorry, agreed...badly worded! What I actually meant by my comment was that I wouldn't expect anything on top of maintenance unless there was a big extra expense that month.

swing - £450 pcm on a salary of 120K!
I personally think that his salary is irrelevant. He should pay half of what they actually cost. Everything additional should be up to him to fund or not, with of course, the hope that he would because he can.

I think man high earners are reluctant to pay more because they believe that the money will not be spent on the kids. I have seen it both ways, with some NRP not realising at all the true costs of kids and/or being unwilling to pay a penny over the strict minimum forgetting that his kids might be entitled to a bit more than this minimum, but I have also know NRP paying large amount to the PWC and seeing nothing of it spent on the children whilst the PWC enjoys a new car, holidays, expensive clothes etc... despite a small-ish income.

When my kids were little and in childcare, I calculated that they cost about £600 a month. That included all the obvious, childcare, but also an element of the mortgage, car payment, petrol, food etc... I can't see how two children can cost much more than that, unless one or two are still in nursery full-time.

Excellent post Swing!

I do get where you are coming from but ultimately maintenance goes into the overall pot for the RP and the NRP really cannot dictate what it is/isn't spent on.

However, on the point about if the NRP is paying a good amount then yes I agree demanding money over and above for day to day things is unfair unless the NRP can afford it and is willing to contribute.

My DP has a reasonable agreement with his ex, he pays over the basic maintenance at a rate we can just about afford and then we are meant to split school costs 50/50. The reality over the last 5 years is educational trips have all been split 50/50 but we have funded 100% of uniform and shoe costs for my DSD and about 90% of DSS - his mum has paid for his new blazer herself. She ordered the branded stuff and we sorted everything else out when he started high school and I expect when DSD starts in September we will follow the same arrangement.

It may not be what other people would do, but it works for us

swing - my child care bill is £8750 pcm for 2 children including all the holiday clubs I need to pay for to cover his failure to have his DCS. I actually do not think this is too bad. If he did half the holidays then it would be considerably less - but he does not and i do not have 17 weeks of holiday per year to cover everything.

£4375 each per annum . it is that high because he does no pick ups drop offs, no weeks holiday. Paying for childcare at the weekend to cover my weekend work - is costly. Would be happy to arrange them for weekends when he has them but hey he does not.

Wrap around care is not cheap and whilst you may consider this excessive - it works for me and allows me to work to pay all the other things for DCs. One of my DCs has major health issues, finding someone they loved to be with and prepared to take this on is not easy - I personally think I get value for monies. She will turn up if I have a crisis, last minute issue and never charges extra.

By the time you add in football, music lessons, and another club each after school His £3700 per child per annum does not go far.

Assuming we ignore all child care - 2 kids £20 per day is what we both contribute - eldest is on his third pair of trainers/football boots. school shoes since September gone from size 4 to size 6 alone, three sizes in school uniform and a few lost bits and pieces - the monies disappear!

Really please you managed on that but in a house with children with illness believe me it does not go far when you consider therapy sessions etc. If you are lucky you might get away with one session, which we are hopefully going down to in May - but that is still £80 per week - I was paying for two of those and at one point 3. His £70 per week did not cover his share and all the other stuff.

horses for courses and again depends what their needs are but hearing NRP moaning about paying anything and assuming the RP spends it on themselves, thus not contributing appropriately to all the costs, is so derogatory.

Special car seat for DC cost a fortune - it is not a luxury it is an essential. DP will not buy one for his car but insists on using the one i paid for, as says it is not worth it as he does not have them in the car often. True but the base cost £500 and all the mouldings and covers need replacing every few months as DC grows and changes shape - where does that come in his little contribution.

Maintenance in this house does not cover 50% basics for his children. The RP in this case picks up the not insignificant shortfall - hence why my 10yr old car has not been replaced and holidays are a whimsical dream, school trips are a save petrol month, walk everywhere, sacrifice my occasional one night per month drink and make soup for tea time.

He jets off on holiday, does not take his DCS and then tells them all about it when he gets back - business class to Barbados for new DP and her DCs but not his own - then compains about £450 pcm - please it is embarrassing, insulting and completely piss poor parenting. Apparently would have cost too much to take his DCS on holiday aswell!!1

£7400 per annum on childminder stuff - £3700 each
To be fair, that's quite a high cost, so assuming you don't get any tax credits to offset these, then yes, I would consider that he should pay towards it reducing as these costs go down.

I do get where you are coming from but ultimately maintenance goes into the overall pot for the RP and the NRP really cannot dictate what it is/isn't spent on.
And that is exactly why some NRP have an issue when paying large amount of maintenance, because it goes into the pot. They don't want to supplement a 'pot' especially when it seriously reduced their own 'pot', they want to support their kids. The fact that they can't dictate how the money is spent doesn't mean that they don't think that the money is spent elsewhere when they don't see much evidence that it is spent on essential for their kids.

I don't understand why a PWC would have any issue providing a general financial statement to the NRP to show how the money is spent. Doesn't have to go into every £1, but a gross breakdown might be all that is needed to reassure the NRP is spent on his children and a PWC refusing to do so because deep inside they know that they are either contributing nothing themselves towards the cost of their kids because the full maintenance covers everything should really feel ashamed.

Maintenance in this house does not cover 50% basics for his children
As above, have you ever actually provided him with a breakdown of costs? My ex used to moan about paying maintenance until I did so and told him I was happy to share with him. He declined because he knew deep inside that his contribution didn't come to 50% of the total costs. He then stopped paying together and I haven't received a penny from him for over 10 years.

That your ex thinks it is enough to contribute £450 a month is one thing, that he doesn't treat his kids when they are with him is another matter though.