DH and DSCs moving in at Xmas - worried!

[Minki]

DH and I have been together 3 years and got married in August. I have two DSs, 6 and 4, who live with me and he has a girl, 11, and boy, 9 who he has 50% of the time. Him moving in means they will be here 50% of the time. I have posted separately about this but I had a horrible break up with my ex after he had an affair and left us for other woman. DH also had an affair and split with his ex which does cause some trust issues. They would be moving in with me as I have a 6 bedroom house and they have a one bed flat (kids share a room and DH sleeps on the floor when they stay!). We obviously have more than enough room although I am thinking of getting an au-pair which would mean his DCs need to share a room (one room is used as an office) which doesn't seem to be an issue given that they share at both their dad's and mum's. All the kids get on very well and seem to be looking forward to moving in but I am nervous for a number of reasons. Aside from the cost issues (who pays what etc, which we have not discussed in detail, I am hugely worried about losing control and this not feeling like my house anymore. Once they move in it will have to become home to his DCs and i am not sure I feel ready for that. It feels like it is my kids and my home and noone elses! It's not helped by the fact that I am the higher earner and use a nanny (or an au-pair) which DH works fewer hours and so has never used childcare. He will basically be at home 3 with his kids 3 afternoons a week whilst my kids are being looked after by a nanny. His kids go to school 40 minutes away from where we live so he will have to collect them from school and commute back to ours on the days they are with us. Although I like his kids, there are also tensions around parenting styles. His son, 9, is very clingy and quite demanding and it feels like he always wants his dad to himself, which is quite hard for my little ones to handle as when DSCs aren;t here, DP is available to them. Just feel that we will both want time with our own kids that we won't get and that his DS will be sulky and resentful because of it. Also worried about costs. Am struggling to pay a large mortgage and worry that I am going to end up picking up the larger share of the food bills etc. I tried to tell DP how I was feeling which he interpreted as me not wanting them to move in so need to broach this really carefully. Any advice?

It cannot suddenly become abusive once we get married!

I disagree. He married you with the expectation that you would live as a couple. The DCs expected you to cohabit. The law is applied to married couples as cohabiting.
Your decision not to go through with the agreement you made is not, in itself abusive. Your expectation that he will "wait until you are ready" and suffer the emotional and financial consequences, is.

You cannot change the fact that now you are married, regardless of the intent, you and your DH legally have two marital homes. No matter who who owns the asset and will financially benefit from the sale, both parties have a right to live in the marital home unless a court orders otherwise.

You seem oblivious to the fact that there are legal rights associated with marriage - your pre-nup doesn't cancel those out, it merely acts as a statement of intent should you and your DH dispute the distribution of assets if you divorce.

I can just imagine the flaming a man would get on MN if posted that he was preventing his DW from living in the 6 bedroom house he owned.

Being a stepparent doesn't make you happy, you don't need to rationalise it. You can't force a change of feelings, yes over time the intensity of feelings may decline or they will grow stronger! it depends how you dh responds.

I started life as a step parenting with a positive mindset but it made me unhappy.DSD was very clingy to dh and he did nothing to stop it.Our parenting styles were different as he refused to ever tell his daughter off.

14 years later, DSD is nearly grown and we have a routine.dh did settle down and the indulgence to DSD has declined however I still get very frustrated.An example, over Christmas DSD lay on the couch most days when everyone around her contributed effort.Dh set her tasks but I find it so frustrating that she is unwilling to help on a voluntary basis.My dcs would never be allowed to behave like this.As the step parent I have to bite my tongue and vent to friends.

However my dh contributes to my life positively, he is an excellent step dad and father to our children.He works hard and juggles his demanding job so that I can fit in my freelance work.He takes care of the children so I can work on a flexible basis.We are building a home together and he acts like a team member.So on balance, its worth it however I would advise all women to take on step mothering cautiously. Listen to your instincts, not everyone is suited to the role.

Your feelings are natural as step parenting is often a one way street...payback for your effort maybe slow or it may never come.If you open your home to your step children you have to adjust around them and make any changes over a very, very long time through gentle persuasion.

Life can be too short to be unhappy.Imagine if this was a job, you're not sure if the work colleagues are positive for you and you feel unhappy a lot if the time. Would you
A. remain on a temporary contract whilst you decide or B. Sign up to a life time contract?

I think you know the situation isn't right for you but the desire for the nuclear family is strong and that us overriding your instincts.

Just see this thread, Minki, is it maybe that your kids feel safe and secure in your home so can be independent, safe in the knowledge that Mummy is there all the time.

Your step children probably don't feel like your home is their home yet, so wouldn't feel comfortable going off to play and do their own thing. I imagine your kids would be similar in a home that's not yours?

If they had their own room/s then they would have somewhere to go?

Also, they only see their Dad three days a week. They probably cling to him to make their most of their time with him?

I'm glad you are delaying when your DH moves in. I think it would be unfair on everyone if you did it without being fully happy.

Have managed to have a proper discussion about this with your DH yet?

I think a lot of the other issues can be worked around but marrying someone with whom you can't even discuss this type of thing is very worrying indeed and doesn't bode well for the future.

And no normal man or woman expects to sit their arse whilst being supported by the other

bit of a smack in the face for all those stay at home parents there.... Plenty of 'normal' people out there supported by a partner - whether they are stay at home parents, carers, or ill themselves. If these people are not 'normal', what are they? Should people leave their marriages because their spouse gets cancer and needs supporting?

In all seriousness, having read your other thread and then this one, I seriously think you and your husband need to seek therapy - probably separately and then together. You certainly have massive 'issues', in my opinion, around what is yours is yours and are struggling to enter into marriage in what most would consider the usual 'spirit' which is a 'what's mine is his/what's hers is mine' type scenario.

I realise you fought hard for what you had following your divorce but you seem to have a massive mental block on what marriage actually means. When you are challenged you become aggressive/abusive/unpleasant. Your husband seems to be a decent guy who's not as financially well off as you - whether this means he is taking advantage of your wealth/success or something else - isn't clear but presumably you think he's decent enough or you wouldn't have married him. If you are unable to 100% trust that he's in this for the right reasons (whatever 'right reasons' are for the pair of you), then you don't have a marriage. And I think that's the conclusion I keep coming to when I read your posts. This isn't a marriage - marriage isn't just an emotional contract - it's about mixing everything together and making it work. I don't think you want to mix or make work at all but are struggling admitting that to yourself. A half decent therapist should be able to help you work out what the issue is and help you push past it - or end the marriage for the right reasons if it comes to that.

And I agree, Peruvian. if the shoe were on the other foot in this situation, the outcry would be enormous!

Some legal advice for you....

Nothing counts as marital assists unless it has been 'shared', eg keeping your money separate from his, no pooling of income etc means he has no claim to anything of yours.

Re your reply to my earlier post, sounds like you have a pre existing problem with his 9 yr old. There's a boy who's obviously insecure in his relationship with his father, that may well have stemmed from the divorce or the impending moving in with you.

What you both need to do is tell that child how important he is to both of you, especially his dad, and not just treat him as 'different'.

Nothing counts as marital assists unless it has been 'shared', eg keeping your money separate from his, no pooling of income etc means he has no claim to anything of yours.

legal precedent does mean that it is unlikely the OP will lose out on anything she brought to the marriage - but it will have to be ruled by a court if they don't agree, prenup or no prenup - and given the circumstances, the OP could reasonably be expected to pay costs.

There's a similar thread over in legal at the moment - the experienced advice from over there would be useful on this thread, I think.

Peruvian, only in very extreme cases do the family courts award a party to pay costs. Usual rule is that each party bears its own save in the case of extremely bad conduct and even then it's a struggle. I went to court with my ex over financial issues. Cost us 30k each and ended in the court ordering exactly what I had proposed at the outset but I still didn't get my costs. I had a friend whose ex behaved very unreasonably and still no costs.

Hesnotamessiah, that is exactly the advice I received. It's from a top family lawyer so I am inclined to believe it although he said it is not water-tight Best protection is to keep everything separate.

Best protection is to keep everything separate.

...and the best way of doing that is not to get married, oh! too late.

I must be living in a parallel universe - since when did it become acceptable for someone to get married, giving their spouse and children the (quite reasonable) expectation that they will live as a conventional married couple, only to decide after the wedding that they don't fancy compromising after all quite yet, (but maybe, one day, they might, we'll have to see) and in the meantime, protect their own assets at all costs?

OP you made a mistake by marrying your DH. Your DCs and your DH will suffer the emotional and financial consequences of that, even if you manage to avoid them. I could understand it if it were a spontaneous, shotgun wedding (Brittany Spears style) but you sought legal advice and put a prenup in place; hardly a spur-of-the-moment decision, was it? Less a romantic whim, and more of a business transaction, really?

It's no surprise the DCs are displaying emotional anxieties - they must be totally bewildered; their parent has got married, but carry on as if nothing has changed? Their whole belief system about marriage and relationships has been challenged, and no one is explaining anything or supporting them to make sense of their confusion. Avoiding addressing the issue in case it upsets an adult is a catastrophic failure as a parent - these children need explainations and assurance - at the moment they have uncertainty and ignorance.

No matter what the opinions or advice given on this thread, the fact remains that you need legal intervention to extract yourself from the situation you have created. You may face a judge who is sympathetic to your cause, or you may face a judge who feels, like I do, that you have treated your DH, and your DCs disgracefully, and should face the consequences. Judges are human too, and their opinions do influence their judgements.

Peruvian, you are talking crap. I have not treated my DH or my DCs disgracefully and no judge would ever find that. How can maintaining the status quo being treated someone disgracefully? 3 out of 4 of the children are not displaying any kind of "emotional anxiety" and DSS has been clingy/emotional since the day I met him. What would have really screwed them up is if DH and I had steamrollered ahead with your idea of what constitutes a perfect marriage, which is based in the 1950s I'm afraid. NONE of the children are upset or bewildered because "nothing has changed", in fact, I would say they are all happy about things because we have taken it slowly. This is a SECOND marriage, and people do marry for emotional reasons, not because they are trying to latch onto financial security. We both have other commitments which we need to honour, his to his kids and mine to mine. As for needing legal intervention to extract myself, again, what are you talking about? We would need to get divorced, yes, same as every married couple, and we would need to agree finances but the pre-nup should apply providing assets have been kept separate.

And it may come as a shock Peruvian, but some couples (shock, horror) in second marriages/relationships do even choose to live separately because they have different commitments which are hard to reconcile and also because one may want to protect an asset, e.g. ensure a house is left to their children. Are they are also treating each other disgracefully?

The children have all been kept in the loop about things. They were ALL happy we got married, (DSS even said it was the best day of this life so he is clearly not that "emotionally troubled" by things) and they have been told that we will live together at some point but lots of things need to be worked out first (rooms, commute to school, etc). They all seem happy with the current situation of weekly sleepovers, holidays spent together etc, and none seems confused or bewildered, apart from me that is. It would be completely wrong to rush things and get it wrong just to conform to an outdated idea of marriage which does not work in this day and age, especially with a blended family.

If the children seem happy with the status quo, this seems like another good reason not to go changing thing just yet?

As for DH's expectation in marrying me, I was very clear with him that I simply don't have the means to offer any kind of financial support to his kids and that my expectation was that we each pay for our own kids and he has an arrangement with his ex whereby they both work part time and look after their kids 50/50 and don't use childcare, whereas my ex and I both work full time and until September were paying 2k a month in childcare. Should I expect DH to look after my kids as well? Of course not.

As for needing legal intervention to extract myself, again, what are you talking about? We would need to get divorced, yes, same as every married couple, and we would need to agree finances but the pre-nup should apply providing assets have been kept separate.

In the UK, prenup is an agreement, not a legally binding order - in the event of disagreement, for it's content to be upheld, it has to be ruled on in a court of law. This is common knowledge. So yes, it may be that you get to keep everything you entered the marriage with, but only after a legal ruling.

What "emotional reasons" can there be for marriage without the associated blending and coupling of lives? I'm beginning to think you gave your DH an ultimatum - did you insist he married you in order to prove his commitment? Yes, there are married couples who live apart - but that is a joint decision. It's clear that your DH is not happy with the current arrangement - he obviously expected to be living together; yet you are convinced that keeping everything the same as before your marriage is perfectly fair and reasonable on him, because you didn't marry with that expectation.

A world in which it is unreasonable of a spouse to expect to live with his wife, in the marital home as a family, is so far away from my reality as to be incomprehensible. Your disregard for your DHs feelings is (IMO) disgraceful and no amount of justification can change that.

Peruvian, I know it is not a court order but in the event of divorce, the idea is to present the pre-nup which then forms the basis of the financial settlement, hence reducing the need for court hearings etc.

Again, you seem unable to comprehend that someone may have a different, perhaps more modern, view of marriage to you and that marriage does not necessarily equal financial blending. Emotional yes and a shared life, yes. I would love to live with DH but if there are too many issues/obstacles then I recognise that there IS an alternative. If you read my earlier posts, you will see that I have tried to discuss this with DH so I am not disregarding his feelings, but my feelings count for something too I'm afraid. It would be equally abusive to force everyone to live a situation with which they are not happy, wouldn't? And no, I didn't give DH an ultimatum to marry me (why would I?), he proposed spontaneously after a year. Did you give your husband an ultimatum and force him to support you? Also, I do find it a little difficult to see DH and DSCs as the victims here. As much as I love DH, he did have an affair and leave his ex. The reverse happened to me ( my ex had an affair and left us). I was forced to rebuild my life and would never have been in this situation voluntarily. If you think my approach is selfish Peruvian, then fine, but I would rather be selfish and protect my kids then take your approach and let them (and me) massively exposed in the event of a divorce. I have fought for everything I have and I work full time to support my kids and provide a roof over their heads. A roof that is there no matter what. I'm not giving them at to conform to your idea of a traditional marriage, or to give anyone else a lifestyle upgrade. It's not going to happen.

I think you are a fool.
The free loader is taking you for a ride.
You was given good advice last time, you went ahead and ignored everything. I wonder what he promised you.

You are realise in the UK a prenup is not legally binding.

By going ahead you have just distroyed everything you have worked hard for.

The pt working cocklodger will file for divorce. He will make childcare work to his advantage so you don't need nanny or whatever. All so he can get his hands on the house.

So, your DH proposed, you said yes - but made it clear that not only would you keep your financial assets separate (which is very common in second marriages, including my own), but that you wouldn't live together, either?
And he was ok with that then, but he's changed his mind now?

In which case, I take it back - assuming he shared your "more modern" view of marriage, then he's stuck with it.

If, however, he reasonably expected a conventional marriage, then you are being very, very, unreasonable to expect him to accept your position now.

Minki What is it that you do want from marriage? There must have been something that made it seem attractive to have got married so recently. You don't want to share finances, childcare or even a home, so it would help to know what you do see as the appeal. Are either of you religious? Or is it not really socially acceptable to either of you to be unmarried? I think a lot of people on this thread are struggling to understand why you didn't just stick as boyfriend/girlfriend, which would give you all the independence you want. But presumably there must have been some reason to marry?

You do realise that pre nups do not yet have legal validation yet in uk ? as this all seems to be about money and not about all the children concerned... You sound completely unsuited to blended family. Rather that you want the man and his kids are a dreadful inconvenience to your life and carefully preserved assets !

Ok, so after a series of rows over Christmas (big rows but over small things) DH has said that we need to delay moving in until we can sort things out. So it obviously wasn't just me who had concerns over living together. We are going to go to counselling to see if we can work through the issues but I honestly don't know if we can. Fear has taken over at this point and I have no idea how to get out of the hole we have dug for ourselves. I want to be with him as, overall, we make each other happy but we cannot for the moment resolve the issues between us. I am not sure how the relationship will work without us living together. It seems that either way it is doomed. DH says our main problem is that I don't accept the situation as it is.

Councilling sounds like a good idea. i know you want to find away to make it work but it's hard to see a way forward?

I'm sorry things are grim.

It sounds hard. I'm not sure that everyone can really bond with stepchildren and that's the end of it. You either accept that and live with it or have to work around it....

Thanks both. I feel a lot calmer since going back to work after the Christmas break and having a bit more space to time and think. I think I really lost it over the last week or so and got way way too anxious, not helped by horrendous PMT, and determined to calm down and stop stressing so much. DH now seems to be backtracking over the whole moving in issue and saying they are still going to so I really really need to decide what to do. DH says I need to accept him as he is, i.e. a dad of two kids of has them 50% of the time and to stop giving him a hard time for not being here all the time and for not being able to be with me more than half the time (unless they move in of course). If I am really honest, the problem is that I want the nuclear family that I once had (before my ex had an affair and left us) and, deep down, I don't want the added hassle/complication of a step family. I want a proper partnership with someone where we love and respect and look after each other and our kids, but I can't ever have that, unless i get back with my ex. I feel so sad when I see proper nuclear families where the dad is so committed and supportive and it's SO easier as you are both totally devoted to doing the best for YOUR kids. Even though I am married to DH, I feel like I am on my own with my DSs. However, I love and am in love with DH and would make a lot of concessions to be with him. How do I reconcile the two? Should I accept that I am not right to be step mum and back out, or accept that I cannot ever have the ideal set-up as I see it and compromise?