please please help really scared

[scarlettandrhett]

DH and I have our own DS and DH has a DD my DSD.

Getting contact was horrendous as ex stopped all contact when she found out about me. I was not the OW. I met DH long after they split up, they were not married.
During the court hearing and out of the blue, she phones me and wants a agreement over contact that we can put before the judge. The suggestion she gave was what DH had wanted. The judge stamped the order.
My gut was telling me that as long as DH played by her rules, all would be ok but if he stepped out of line, all hell would break loose.

Contact was great for the next 3 years. We got DSD more than the court order stated. I became ex "new best friend" and DH and I played her game.

Last month, DH made a geniune mistake over drop off and she went nuts, calling DH every name under the son. DH had had enough and told her so. Yes, contact was stopped, all attempts at communication were stopped.

About 3 hours ago, she came to our door and said she wanted to sort it out. Like a fool, I let her in.
I cannot believe what happened next and even as I write this I feel that I will wake up from a dream.

She proceded to tell us if we take her back to court, she will say DH was abusing DSD. She said that even though it is not true the fallout will affect our own DS. She said she will go to SS with these claims and will say she has real fears for my DS as well. She will go to the police and ensure our DS is removed from our home until an investigation is completed. She said she will tell SS that was why she stopped contact. She is a teacher and knows what do. I thought DH was going to go for her. She was calm, not shouting, screaming, just very calm and smiled through it all.

I cannot believe this is happening, I cannot even find the words to describe it. After she said this, it is all a haze, she walked out our home them. What do we do? What happens. I am really scared now.

I have changed my name

ok, not mistake, stupid, insane, spiteful moment of madness.

this thread is a bit like watching a film. I'm on the edge of my seat until 4.30 and the shit storm.

Forgive my ignorance but would the mother not have any rights to be at the court hearing. Really shocked that all of this can just happen without her knowledge or without giving her the chance to represent her case.

Not on her side by the way, she acted terribly but surprised at the process.

Good luck OP. what a terrible situation.

purple I'm surprised to - it is certainly not normal practice here for a 12 year old to have an audience with a judge on the back on an ex-partie application due to what is, in the eyes of the court, a disagreement between parents.
A lot of recent comments on this thread say "what if.....?" Courts, don't, in my experience,deal in what ifs. They deal in actual events. And all that has happened in the OPs case is that the DCs parents have disagreed and the DC has "taken sides".

Don't get me wrong, I believe a child should be removed from a proven abusive situation, whether that is emotional or physical, but no such proof is evident in this case.

However, now this decision has been made, I anticipate the court will go on to place responsibility on the DC to decide where she wants to live and the level of contact she has with her non-resident parent.

scarlett If you can, you might want to consider a private consultation appointment at The Centre for Separated Families. It will help your DH with strategies to maintain a child-focused, rather than child-led, approach.

(As an aside, this experience clearly demonstrates the geographical inequality of the system. Not all local courts will accept ex-partie applications - the local family court judge visits those every few weeks for scheduled hearings)

twofalls an expartie hearing is held in an emergency and a temporary decision is made by the judge until a full hearing can take place.
Generally reserved for allegations of abuse or when the resident parent is a risk to themselves or the child.

No, I know Caterpillar I'm being daft. Sorry.

You're not being daft, just caring. . The problem is that level of concern and compassion that you are feeling for the ex isn't something she is showing to her daughter. Just because there are no physical scares to see doesn't mean the emotional ones don't cut deep.

I'm glad the courts can act this quickly. It shows that children do have a voice and don't have to be pawns. Despite her age she seems to instinctively know that it isn't a healthy environment for her. I just hope her mother respects her enough to not try to emotionally bully her at school. Of course she'll want a relationship with her mother in the future, I just hope her mother treats her with respect a bit more.

I know this had backfired on the ex big time and I understand why some people may have a bit of sympathy for her.

I am sorry but I don't. However, I do not want to see her lose her daughter

If I allowed my feelings to dictate where DSD lives, then it would be with DH, DS and myself but at what cost?

DH and I spoke with the solicotor and have suggested shared residency with a 50/50 split. DSD is not going for that however. She wants to live with us full time.

Yes. DH trusts the head teacher and the ex does not teach her daughter, she really does not see much of her at school. DH has asked the head if there was some form of councilling available for DSD. The school does have a councillor but given she works along side the ex, the head does not think it fair to involve her, which I can understand He is making some calls to another school where he personally knows the head there to see if there is anything they can do to help. Failing that, we will go via our GP as both DH and I believe that DSD will need some help getting over her anger and resentment.

DH is going over soon to the ex accompanied by the police who have been very supportive. He hopes the ex will allow him to collect some of DSD clothes and other personal belongings. He is not going in all guns blazing,but will not stand by and allow the ex to kick off.

This forum has been so helpful. It is a relief writing things down. to vent and to get things of my chest but also to read suggestions and support from many others. Again, very many thanks

scarlett I admire your strength and commitment

What I'm about to suggest may seem counterintuitive, and I'll probably get flamed for it, but for your own emotional wellbeing, and that of your DS, can I suggest that you take an emotional step away?

Your DSD is going to go though a very, very tough few months, as is your DH. At the end of the process, it is possible that your DSD will be lookng for a scapegoat, someone to blame for the hurt and upset that has damaged her relationships with her parents. That someone is quite likely to be you - it is far, for easier for her to blame you than either of the parents she loves, and from whom she is programmed to seek approval.

While it would be tempting and natural to offer your DSD unlimited support, I think you are right to secure outside help for her in that regard. By keeping your emotional distance, you not only avoid creating further split loyalties for her, you also protect yourself from the emotional impact of her rejection should it happen at a later date.

I am not suggesting you should be cold, unwelcoming or unresponsive, just aware of the degree to which she leans on you for support and the impact that has on your relationship with her. An example is, for instance, future court cases, or appointments at which she has to attend. She may well ask for you to accompany her as support, yet that may not be best thing for either of you long-term.

This thread has been like a roller coaster! scarlett you have been on such an emotional journey in such a short time and have handled things beautifully. You and DH have done everything you can to both shield and inform DSD of what's happening, no mean feat!

I have no sympathy for Ex, although I do feel sorry for what she's brought on herself (if that makes sense!). I truly believe her actions were out of spite and had nothing to do with her daughter's welfare. Well, now she's paying for it. She has managed to turn her own daughter against her in her attempt keep her from her father. They may possibly repair the relationship, but the damage will always be there.

It does seem to me that for a child to so swiftly want to move away from their mother there must have been more going on at home than meets the eye. I'm sure Ex badmouthed your DH to DSD and I think that always backfires when the parent being badmouthed is a decent parent.

As hard as it will be, I do think it would be in DSD's best interest if you could bite back your anger and be able to deal with her mother. Not to sit and share a meal, but just to be able to be (coldly) civil to her. but I'll admit I don't know if I could do it, either, after what she did. I certainly would never meet her anywhere or chat on the phone, but I think I would try being able to at least be in the same room with her. In the future there will be events and school programmes where I'm sure DSD would want you both there.

I think you have a point Across. The scales can fall off the eyes very quickly as all the pieces fit together sometimes, and that can be very upsetting but also relieving at the same time. Sadly it will happen to my DSD at some point, when she eventually realises how many lies her mum has told both to us and her to prevent contact. I've been telling my DH about this thread and he said that this will be us in a few years time. I believe him .

I hope the service goes as well as can be expected. I think you've done the only thing you could have, given the circumstances. I have no sympathy for the mother, she's made her bed and feathered it over many years. Now she must lie in it.

Yep keep up the pretence of being able to be civil/understanding of her mum as much as possible through those gritted teeth.

I think if Dh is able to remain calm throughout dealing with the ex, and repeatedly say that he imagines DD will calm down and be open to shared residency then there really is no come back on him. It's that whole kind of acknowledging how DD feels at the moment but you also are aware she may feel differently in the future.

Parenting is such hard work!!!

The concern here shouldn't be how the ex feels or how the OP feels but what is in the best interests of DSD .

I would worry if I were you, if it really is in DSD's best interest to change her living arrangements in a formal legal way so suddenly. Teenagers can be volatile, furious and vow never to speak to someone again one day but forget all that fury the next. This time however, DSD's valid anger has been converted very rapidly into a court order the effects of which will last far longer than how she's feeling about her mum today.

Likewise, the effects on DSD of another court battle between your dh and her mum will really not benefit her. She is old enough within only a year or two to vote with her feet and come to you at birthdays and Christmas if that is what she chooses, regardless of you, her mum or any court orders.

In the future, I guess your own relationship may remain stronger with DSD if she sees you trying to maintain a balance between her contact with your family and with her mum, despite her mum's appalling behaviour, than if she feels anything she might say in anger immediately becomes a battleground between her parents.

Haffdonga I totally agree with you as I think it will have immense repercussions for the stepdaughter. The whole process makes me feel uneasy; a little too stage-managed.

Your DSD needs to make peace with her mother and their relationship needs to settle again somewhat before she is asked to express an opinion about her long term living arrangements. At the moment, she doesn't know what to expect when she's alone with her mum again and I have no doubt that she's dreading the day it has to happen. Until that is over, her worries may well override her ability to think sensibly about the future. I also think it needs to happen sooner, rather than later, even if she decides she wants someone impartial there to support her a couple of times first.

If, after she has made peace of some sort with her mother, she still wants to live with you and isn't happy with the idea of a 50/50 arrangement, I think you need to listen to her. I couldn't cope with living in two places at the same time (I have done it and hated it) and I don't expect I am unusual in that.

I understand that you're trying to be fair to the ex, but her needs are not what your DSD's living arrangements should be about. It's about being fair to the child, not either of the adults. If she needs to feel happy and settled in one place permanently, I think she has a right to do so.

It will be some time before things have settled down and you all get a feeling for what is the best way to move forward. When you reach that point, I know you will want to make sure that DSD's wishes are paramount in the process. You might have to push others quite hard to make it happen.

Your DSD needs to make peace with her mother

I don't see why this is an issue for now. Just as it certainly won't benefit her to have her mother slagged off, neither will it benefit her to brush over the enormity of her mother's nasty behavior.

What an awful situation for you all. I have no sympathy for this mother. Had she carried out her threat, she would have caused far bigger separations and hurt.

I do agree with posters cautioning there will be repercussions and you are treading a fine line between supporting Dsd and being seen to be against her mother. Fwiw you sound like you're doing a brilliant job

OP, you sound lovely and I really can't see that you had any choice in any of this, considering the situation that the ex put you all in.

I have no sympathy for the ex apart from having to live with herself, which must be pretty rotten. My concern is for the dsd, of course, I cannot see how she can live with her mother for the moment, until she can get her head around her mother's nasty lies.

EX has been served with the court papers.

She is not happy and basically blamed me saying tell Scarlett she is not getting her hands on my daughter.

DH said that is not what Scarlett is doing, that you started this by threatening us. She replied that it was heat of the moment and she would not have gone through with it. This is the closest she had come to admitting what she did.

Again DH said it was not done in the heat of the moment and that she had told dsd that he had tried to get the ex arrested.

DH then told her that dsd had asked why he had done that. DH then said he was fed up of always being the bad guy and sat down and told dsd exactly what had happened. He also said he told dsd about xmas, b'days etc and showed her the court order. He said dsd told him of the excuses the ex had given dsd for not allowing contact over these dates.

Ex called DH a *** and that he had no business telling dsd. DH said he had been left with no choice. He was not going to let his DD think he tried to get her mother arrested or we did not want to see her at Xmas etc

He told the ex that any future correspondance could be done via his solicitor and she would be notified of the court date regarding residency but he had some suggestions of how to move forward but she told him to off, she was not discussing anything with him. DH said for dsd sake would it not be better to work out an solution before court. She would not listen.

DH said fine and in the meantime, he would not stop dd from seeing her mother. He said right now dd is angry but we are trying to talk her round to seeing her mum. Ex said she doubted that as Scarlett would make sure dd did'nt want to see her.

DH then got angry and said actually it is scarlett how is trying to convince dd to see her mother. He said the conversation was now over and he wanted to collect some of dd belongings.

Ex refused this so DH went to police and advised them of the situation. Police then came out and asked why ex would not allow dh to pick up some of dd belongings. Ex replied that dd would not be with dh long enough to need some of her stuff. Police said that maybe the case but what about in the meantime? Ex then allowed DH to collect dsd school uniform, school books, some underwear, sleepware and that was it.

I am now going down to the 24hr asda to get dsd some tioletries and some clothes until we can take her out and get her some more clothes.

Not sure what happens next before the court date.

DH solicitor has advised DH that the court will take into account what dsd wants and the court could order shared residency with dsd spending the majority of her time with us or the court could order sole residency to DH and contact to the ex or revert the residency back to the ex. Sol seems to think it will be shared residency but more than likely CAFCASS will become involved if the ex disputes residency, which we anticipate she will

have read the whole thread and I really admire how you have handled it. I would have responded worse.

I would encourage you to get a restraining order against her to stop her coming near you and effectively your home.

She may very well try something else now.

neither will it benefit her to brush over the enormity of her mother's nasty behavior.

The enormity of her mother's actions cannot be brushed over and nor should it. However, they are still mother and daughter. What has happened is not a reason for the mother to be denied contact. They will therefore have to work through this and re-establish a relationship. How easily this happens will, I suspect, depend mostly on how the ex reacts to her DD when they do meet up again.

If the child is asked to express an opinion about future residence and contact before that happens, her decision is likely to be influenced by worry about seeing her mother again and the repercussions of having rejected her. It needs to be over and done with before she is asked to think about the residence issue.

I don't think anything was 'stage managed' or 'rushed'. Her mother was the one who caused the problem. Her father certainly didn't 'stage manage' that! DSD was told the truth about what her mother did because her mother told her 'her version' of events. She then decided she did not want to go home. Under the current order the mother could & probably would have forced the child home. Her father took action to ensure DSD could remain where she wanted to be. It's not like he used the incident to permanently cut the mother out of the child's life. Both he and OP have ensured that DSD knows she is free to return to her mother's in her own time if/when she wishes to do so.

Any idea how long it is likely to be until the next court date?

How's your DS doing in all this?

She is not doing herself any favours, is she? Obviously she is upset and angry, but she is behaving more like a spoilt child who isn't getting her own way.

I'm glad dsd is with you, and hope that she gets to spend a lot more time with you. Her mum doesn't sound stable, and also not as if she is likely to put her dd's well being before her own wants and whims.

It is a very sad situation. I do hope you don't have to wait too long for the Court date. It doesn't help anyone being in Limbo.

Jux

I thought the same thing I wondering if Scarlett is the first person who has ever reacted this way and pulled the Ex wife up on her behaviour.

I really want to say Congratulations to you and your DH I think you have managed this situation admirably. You have showed your DSD that you are open and honest and have allowed her some input into her own life and decisions. I know from reading this thread that you will support her emotionally over the coming years and this is probably the stability she needs.