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Original poster

18yo Santa visit

407 replies

sequinsequins · 10/12/2013 08:47

We are in an unusual position in that 18yo DSS still sticks to the access rota to the absolute letter. This weekend is an access weekend, and the only day we managed to get tickets for the santa train we go to every year with 4yo DS. I had (naively it turns out) assumed that an 18yo would not want to come to see santa. It turns out I was wrong, and he does. And let's not assume this is about wanting to see DS excited or similar - this is the same DSS who didn't turn up to see DS on his birthday, as it wasn't an access weekend (he lives 3 miles away so no issue there). He will come with us and traipse along, taking any possible joy out of the day.

This is never ending and quite frankly gets me down.

OP posts:
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AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 12:32

amber whatever the reason for the DSS behaviour, the impact on the OP is the same

I'm sure it is, but focusing the brunt of her feelings on him is shortsighted. It is her DH, being the parent, that she should take issue with. This boy didn't get to this stage on his own did he.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 12:53

What do you suggest DH does Amberleaf?

catsmother that's a good idea about the shops, thanks, I'll suggest to DH

OP posts:
GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 12:55

How about you all go into town together, then you, your ds and dh go to see santa and dss is given some money to do some christmas shopping nearby, giving you an hour or two for ds to have special time with santa, and then you can meet up afterwards and have a drink/nice meal out together and have a couple of hours of dss centered time - but obviously involving ds too? Or you and ds could go home and leave dss and dh to it after santa time.

Then you don't get mopey ds.

It doesn't all have to be doom and gloom, it really doesn't - I appreciate it's difficult.

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 12:57

Sorry cats, I see you already mentioned shops, I didn't read all your post because it was so massive [guilty]

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 12:58

I don't know sequinsequins, the horse has bolted now hasn't it.

Your DH has been his father for 18 years, so you must accept that he has had a large part in this outcome?

GotMyGoat. that is a good idea all round IMO.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 12:58

gotmygoat - what do you mean by "dss centered time"? Do you mean by having him there at a restaurant, or something else?

OP posts:
wannabedomesticgoddess · 11/12/2013 13:00

Some people are being very obtuse on this thread.

I am "the ex" and have been accused of being very hard on SMs on these boards before. Even I cannot understand why some of you cannot grasp that the OP and the 4 year old both have a right to see santa on whatever day of the year they like, regardless of the contact arrangements.

A family requires give and take. In this family DSS is taking and taking. There are more than likely, quite complex reasons for this behaviour, which need addressed by his parents. Right now its not being addressed.

The OP is in a position where she cannot change any of it, but she is expected to accommodate the whole thing, with a huge smile on her face.

I agree that the issue is with the OPs DH, but DSS is a NT 18 year old, and until something is confirmed to suggest otherwise, should be treated as such.

Step children are not immune from being told they are out of order. And step mothers are not immune from feeling frustration.

Petal02 · 11/12/2013 13:01

Kaluki: we also had the 'making up time' situation you describe. On the rare occasion DSS did any activities during access, if the ex found out she would view this as DH having had some sneaky 'time off' from his parenting duties, and would insist the time was made up. Although strangely if we had DSS for any extra time, there was no option to 'claim back' this time (not that we would have wanted to do), it was a totally one-way street.

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 13:03

I mean time spent not ignoring him/without him - As in the santa thing is obviously the most important thing of the day, but DSS is visiting to see his dad, so I feel like it's polite not to completely palm him off all day, so yes you could have a nice meal together afterwards - or go to a pub and have a drink. That's what I meant. Obviously only if he's gracious and accommodating to your DS's special time.

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 13:07

Even I cannot understand why some of you cannot grasp that the OP and the 4 year old both have a right to see santa on whatever day of the year they like, regardless of the contact arrangements

Of course, but why complain that DSS is going to ruin it?

If that is the only possible opportunity to visit santa, then go.

I agree that the issue is with the OPs DH, but DSS is a NT 18 year old and until something is confirmed to suggest otherwise should be treated as such

Doesn't his behavior suggest otherwise?

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 13:11

I travelled 100 miles once to see my dad on a day trip, and although he said hello to me he ignored me all day in favour of spending time in the garden with my older brother (whom he adored). I decided to never visit again and have had no contact since that day. I'm saying this just to explain why I'm so anxious about everyone having a good day. I just think rudeness and exclusion due to other siblings is always this horribly painful thing which tears families apart.

Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 13:12

DSS is visiting to see his dad, so I feel like it's polite not to completely palm him off all day

DSS hasn't been invited though, has he? He is a regular guest who decides if and when he will visit.

Is that polite behaviour - or do manners only apply to the OP, not her DSS?

Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 13:13

I travelled 100 miles once to see my dad on a day trip, and although he said hello to me he ignored me all day in favour of spending time in the garden with my older brother

We're you invited?

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 13:14

Well - this a routine that has been set in stone for years - so I think he's fairly entitled to assume he was going to go at the same time - because no one has made it clear that he isn't welcome at these times!

Original poster
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 13:15

"Your DH has been his father for 18 years, so you must accept that he has had a large part in this outcome?"

In what sense? When DH suggests anything to DSS that isn't what his mother has ruled, DSS response is "mum knows best about these things". 86% of the time, his ruling parent bestows upon him the need to utterly rely on the parent for all social interaction, actively discouraged from thinking for himself. Any attempts by DH to convince him otherwise or try to counteract this are met with utter confusion by DSS. He firmly believes imo that DH is wrong in these suggestions. He may nod for the easiest response, but then goes ahead to fall into the compliant reliant behavious he is most comfortable with. When DH "tells" him to find something to do, he has absolutely no idea what to do. Dh will try to encourage DSS to "think" about what he might want to do but it falls on deaf ears.

He continually asks to see DSS on occasions outside of the access rota but these are consistently declined. Short of actually telling him he can no longer come EOW and has to commence a more flexible arrangement, what can he actually do?

Hence my suggestion that something along the lines of DoE, scouts may have helped - get him out of the house and develop problem solving skills for example. But when DH tried to encourage this, of course mum didn't agree and "mum knows best about these things".

OP posts:
MortifiedAnyFuckerAdams · 11/12/2013 13:16

Maybe your DH could stay at home with his elder son then, seeing as its not a family day out

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 13:17

I didn't just turn up if that's what you mean - I called to say I wanted to visit and when were you next free, and a date was set in advance etc. He may have forgot and been taken by surprise I suppose?

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 13:18

Why can't it be a family day out? Sounds lovely to me. OP knew it was a DSS day, and knew that he was unlikely to not come due to the fact he loves to stick to the access routine.

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 13:19

DSS hasn't been invited though, has he? He is a regular guest who decides if and when he will visit

I thought he was someone who 'visits' on set days? Hmm at 'guest'

Does he need to be invited to something that is happening on a day he expects to be there? is it off for him to assume that he would be included, or at least not excluded ?

Original poster
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 13:20

"but DSS is visiting to see his dad, so I feel like it's polite not to completely palm him off all day"

Gotmygoat, the santa train will take an hour out of one day of the access visit. Not exactly "palming him off all day". And, to address other posters' suggestions that DH should be doing something, isn't planning to give DSS "DSS centred time" as a treat for "visiting" on the access rostered day facilitating the rota compliant behaviour?

OP posts:
wannabedomesticgoddess · 11/12/2013 13:20

As I have stated in my other posts, I do think there are issues with his mum that are making him behave like this.

But, that doesn't change the fact that OP has to deal with a situation she has no control over. He is 18. There have been what, 14 years or so, for his parents to notice that he might have SNs and get him appropriate support. They haven't. So either they don't care, or they don't see the problem. Is it the OPs place to pick up the pieces? Is it fair that the younger brother will miss out on things because the DSS has to be pandered to?

If he was diagnosed with Aspergers say, there would be support, a clear plan of care to help DSS cope with life. It wouldn't be expected that everyone else should adapt to cope with him.

I don't think the issue is the santa trip. I think the santa trip is an example of the issue. If it wasn't santa it would be the zoo/a pantomime/soft play.

DSS is effectively controlling his younger brothers contact with their dad. EOW for DSS related activity, so the younger son gets the other weekend for activities suitable for a 4 year old. But DSS is 18 now. There's no need for that anymore. It should be a fluid, natural contact, like an actual family. Not a continuation of a clunky step family that is so often created by enforced contact arrangements.

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 13:24

God, he's 18 I wasn't suggesting using it as a carrot - it just seemed a good way of combining what everybody wants from the time together. No? So neither sibling nor parent will resent the other for 'ruining their day' - in fact everyone would have a great day instead.

This is a separate issue to the rota in some ways, DSS seems incapable of understanding that there is flexibility - so maybe DH does need to be firmer about not sticking to the routine - make yourselves unavailable if it does ruin your plans - but I would caution against being too bold about that, so he doesn't feel excluded from the family - ie. "You must never visit on a saturday afternoon!"

Original poster
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 13:27

"Well - this a routine that has been set in stone for years - so I think he's fairly entitled to assume he was going to go at the same time - because no one has made it clear that he isn't welcome at these times!"

Are you suggesting DH tell his son he's not welcome?

OP posts:
Original poster
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 13:28

"OP knew it was a DSS day" - as I've said upthread, people don't own days

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 13:29

Not sure how old DSS was when his parents split, but your DH and his EX don't communicate at all? That takes two. Your DH could have done something to address that at some point in the last xx years surely.

As difficult as that may have been, if it had been addressed, things would likely be different.

Instead DSS Mum is blamed for the situation and nothing changes.

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