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18yo Santa visit

407 replies

sequinsequins · 10/12/2013 08:47

We are in an unusual position in that 18yo DSS still sticks to the access rota to the absolute letter. This weekend is an access weekend, and the only day we managed to get tickets for the santa train we go to every year with 4yo DS. I had (naively it turns out) assumed that an 18yo would not want to come to see santa. It turns out I was wrong, and he does. And let's not assume this is about wanting to see DS excited or similar - this is the same DSS who didn't turn up to see DS on his birthday, as it wasn't an access weekend (he lives 3 miles away so no issue there). He will come with us and traipse along, taking any possible joy out of the day.

This is never ending and quite frankly gets me down.

OP posts:
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differentnameforthis · 11/12/2013 09:36

I have read the thread...every post where you simply refuse to see that this lad is part of your dh's life.

comemulledwinewithmoi · 11/12/2013 09:36

It's about being together as a family. My 12 year old doesn't believe in Santa but enjoyed just being together and seeing the little ones enjoy.

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 09:41

I meant him not coming for the weekend not not coming to the santa thing.

differentnameforthis · 11/12/2013 09:42

How can the OP consider her DSS to be a part if her family when that's not how he wants to be seen?

It's not what I consider that is the issue here, is it? The lad wants to be with his father (I'd say family, but apparently that isn't what he has here) on the appointed day. If no one talks to him, no one knows what he is feeling/wanting.

For whatever reason, he wants to be there. He is her dh's & whether she likes it or not, her child's step brother. Why the hell does the lad have to justify his visits to his father?

Oh & op, if you knew he was due that weekend (by your many assertions that he sticks rigidly to his appointed access visits), why arrange the FC visit for that weekend, when you knew he would be there? (Did you really expect him to sit in the house, alone & wait for you all to get home & start chatting about your lovely family visit to see FC?) That reads to me that you wanted this to be an issue to create drama.

Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 09:42

Ok - so the OP should welcome her DSS as part if her family (notwithstanding his surly, sulky behaviour) when his self-imposed access rota allows, and when he chooses not to be a part of the family, the OP should pick up the pieces and somehow console her DS and her DP who will miss the member of the family who is choosing not to be there.

Why the hell should stepmums accommodate their DSC every wish? Either the DSC is a member of the family or not! He's no longer a young child, restricted by a court ordered contact schedule put in place because his parents were unable to agree. He's an adult - and no adult has the right to waltz in and out of other people's lives as they choose no matter what the relationship between them.

sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 09:44

"It's not what I consider that is the issue here, is it? The lad wants to be with his father (I'd say family, but apparently that isn't what he has here) on the appointed day. If no one talks to him, no one knows what he is feeling/wanting"

Despite your protestations you are clearing not reading the thread - well that, or else deliberately ignoring key elements of it. I have said DH has spoken to him about this on various occasions.

OP posts:
Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 09:46

This rota is self-imposed.

The OPs DSC is dictating to his DF (and family) when it is convenient for him to spend time with them. And he is insisting through his behaviour that he will spend that time with his DF regardless of what his DF and family may have planned - even if he is miserable while doing it.

What a selfish man the OPs DSS is.

sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 09:49

"Oh & op, if you knew he was due that weekend (by your many assertions that he sticks rigidly to his appointed access visits), why arrange the FC visit for that weekend, when you knew he would be there?"

ok so clearly you have comprehension difficulties. I have said more than once on here it was the only remaining date available. Are you still claiming to have read the thread. How did you read the thread and not see the posts where I said that?

OP posts:
sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 09:54

agreed Mumallthetime. I just can't imagine a scenario where I would turn up to my parents house EOW but refuse to attend for example any birthdays/meals, consistently decline any invitations to go out anywhere with them, never want to come near them at christmas, yet expect to come and go and be welcomed with open arms for deigning to visit when it suits me, regardless of what their plans are.

OP posts:
Petal02 · 11/12/2013 10:06

No, I don't think my family would be too chuffed if I missed out 'occasions' but turned up at my own convenience, regardless of what everyone else was doing. It's not exactly 'family membership' behaviour, is it?

The poster who suggests that the OP's DSS is dictating his father's life, and by extension the lives of everyone else in his father's household - is absolutely spot on. Totally selfish behaviour, which would never be tolerated in a bio family.

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 10:14

selfish man?

he is by the sounds of it a rather immature 18yr old.

man fgs

Petal02 · 11/12/2013 10:18

In the eyes of the law, he's man. Old enough to vote, and to go to prison. Funny how the law considers him to be old enough to be responsible for his own actions, yet a lot of MN posters don't ......

Amber, god forbid he burgled your house, you'd consider him old enough to know right from wrong and to be accountable for his actions.

Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 10:24

amber I say it like I see it. He's 18, an adult. if he is unprepared for the adult world then that is his parents responsibility.

Society doesn't make allowances for immaturity - the legal system, employers, the tax man, medical professionals, the military.
This man could be asked to sit on a Jury and decide on complex legal information and yet you say that he can't be expected to adapt a contact schedule that was put in place when he was six years old?

He's been coddled and protected from reality and now he's an adult his safety net has gone. The OP is only doing what society as a whole does; expects adult behaviour from adults.

Petal02 · 11/12/2013 10:30

Excellent post mumallthetime

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 11:11

I'm well aware of the law.

But this isn't about society or the legal system is it? This is about a family situation.

It seems that some step parents are on some sort of countdown to the step child reaching the magic 18, when they will just pootle off and no longer want/need time with their parent. No wonder some step parents have such a hard time of it when they realise it doesn't necessarily work like that and if they try to implement such a 'disattachment' they encounter problems, It certainly doesn't in 'regular' [for want of a better expression] families.

yet you say that he can't be expected to adapt a contact schedule that was put in place when he was six years old?

I haven't said anything of the sort.

I am going by what the OP has posted, which suggests he is immature for his age. I wouldn't 'expect' any 18 yr old child to suddenly not want to spend time with or need his/her parents immediately they turn 18. Certainly not if as told by the OP the 18 yr old was immature.

Anyway, as others have already said and something I have said on similar threads, the OPs issue is/should be with her DH not her step son.

sequinsequins · 11/12/2013 11:30

" I wouldn't 'expect' any 18 yr old child to suddenly not want to spend time with or need his/her parents immediately they turn 18. Certainly not if as told by the OP the 18 yr old was immature"

I have said on many occasions on this thread (which some posters seem utterly determined to ignore) that the rigid access rota is preventing him from spending more time with his father, not facilitating it. I personally think it doesn't give him enough quality time with DH.

OP posts:
Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 11:50

amber your definition of family seems very shallow.

I wouldn't describe a relationship which is dictated by a calendar and motivated by obligation as family.

Contact between father and son is not an enjoyable activity for either of them - and the DSS rejection and refusal to join in at other times clearly indicates the low value he places on the time they spend together.

Maybe that's what you expect of a family though?

GotMyGoat · 11/12/2013 11:55

So, what's the plan for Santa Day to make everyone happy?

Kaluki · 11/12/2013 11:58

I personally can't wait for the EOW rota to change to something more flexible and easy going but alas I doubt it will for some time (if ever)
DSS had a school disco last weekend and therefore DP didn't get to see him for the allotted time. He now thinks that he is 'owed' 3 hours of time with DSS and has asked his ex wife when he can have that!
It's never about quality time its about the quantity of time and its frequently not so much about DP spending time with his dc its about getting one over on his ex.
So sad - I can see my DSC going the same way as the OPs son.

HeadlessHeadmistress · 11/12/2013 12:03

I agree with everything wannabe has said, I think she's hit the nail on the head.

And if that's the case it's a very sad and difficult situation and I've no idea how you'd solve it.

I guess it would be up to your DH, but as you say if he doesn't really communicate with his ex this may be difficult?

The only thing I can think of is that hopefully he will go to university soon and gain some independence, and his mum will no longer have the hold over him that it appears she has - and things will become easier for you too.

Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 12:05

goat You really don't get it, do you?

There is no magic solution that means everyone will be happy. That's the reality of blended families.

The DSS will be miserable trailing round after his Dad, Dad will be unhappy that his DS isn't more engaged, the OP will feel unconfortable with her DSS behaviour and disappointed that she and her DP can't enjoy the magic of their DS seeing Santa and the DS will pick up on the adults emotions and feel totally confused. Full of Christmas cheer?

In contrast, if the DSS stays at home for a couple of hours, OP, her DP and DS can have a fun time and DS can have the added excitement of telling his big brother about it when they get home. But, DSS isn't happy with that either.

So, no magic solution. Which would you choose?

AmberLeaf · 11/12/2013 12:09

My definition of family? where have I given my definition of family Mumallthetime?

and the DSS rejection and refusal to join in at other times clearly indicates the low value he places on the time they spend together

As has been suggested by various people on this thread, there may be several reasons why this happens, possibly influence from his Mum, his own need [for whatever reason, SNs were suggested] for rigidity and not deviating from the 'rules', or his fathers lack of action on addressing the matter. I don't think it is fair to assume that he places little value on time with his father.

Maybe that's what you expect of a family though?

Based on what little I've said here, you have no grounds for that rather silly passive aggressive comment.

Mumallthetime · 11/12/2013 12:18

amber whatever the reason for the DSS behaviour, the impact on the OP is the same - her DSS has chosen not to be member of her family. The emotional and practical consequences are the same regardless of the motivations.

It always astounds me the sacrifices that Stepmums are expected to make - if we are not willing emotional punchbags, happy to sacrifice any semblance of traditional family life with our other DCs then we are the nightmares of fairy tales.

Is it any wonder that so many stepmums embrace their WSM persona?

catsmother · 11/12/2013 12:20

I can't believe this thread - and some of the accusations being flung at the OP re: not being welcoming etc. If there is still any doubt regarding her intentions the bare facts are that her SS is continually invited to attend all sorts of family occasions - important ones which many people might feel hurt if they were left out of like birthdays etc - but won't attend, despite him being 18, if these events happen to clash with a "non contact" day. He is NOT being excluded from anything ! Conversely, he will always turn up when "the rota" demands, even if that means him being bored stiff - because, shock horror, life goes on and the rest of the family sometimes have no choice but to make arrangements during "contact time". Remember, he is welcome to drop by at any other time .... and yes, it's great that at 18 he still wants to see his dad (rather than more or less disappearing off the face of the earth like many young adults) but being so rigid about it all is doing no-one any favours and you end up with a situation like this where the OP's worried that any potential sulking might spoil what would be an otherwise magical experience for a very small child, and where, quite possibly, the 18 year old might feel very fed up.

Let me tell you about my experiences with Santa and the "big and small" issue. I've got an adult child, who, when they were around 18 came along with us and our youngest child to see Santa in his grotto (well, my oldest didn't see Santa but YKWIM). That's fine - anyone who's happy to enter into the spirit of it is very welcome to come along .... and my oldest was asking the youngest what they wanted for Xmas, pointing out the different animals as we queued and so on. All good. Another year my two stepkids happened to be here when we paid the annual Santa visit ... like the OP I wouldn't necessarily have chosen to inflict that upon them, but regrettably we are often told at the very last moment whether or not contact is going to happen and I refuse to sit here in limbo waiting to see if they turn up or not. Anyway, the older child was either 16 or 17 at the time and made it very clear they weren't happy at our plans - which would have taken all of 30 mins max. We had impressed upon them NOT to say anything about Santa not being real, which, thankfully, they didn't (I would have gone spare) but what they did do was spend the 20 mins we were queuing winding up the youngest along the lines that Santa wouldn't be coming as they'd been naughty ..... a one-off comment is fairly typical sibling banter perhaps, but this was constant and they kept on despite being told very firmly to stop. Result: one upset younger child who was only 6 or 7 at the time .... it was all so unnecessary and mean, and really took the shine off.

OP - if you really think that SS won't enjoy the occasion, then I'd get your DP to bung him £20 and drop him off at the nearest shops while you do the train thing. It's pointless buying an extra ticket if he gets nothing out of it. Obviously, if he was prepared to join in and make a bit of effort then all well and good but presumably you wouldn't have posted if you thought that was going to be the case ? I just wouldn't be happy taking the risk that the whole magic Santa thing might otherwise be spoiled if an older kid is sulking, or maybe making disparaging remarks. Why shouldn't your 4 year old properly enjoy a treat like this at Xmas after all ? .... it's hardly an outrageous idea and SS probably did similar when he was the same age.

Long term, this whole rigidity is plain ridiculous. I agree, it seems he's missing out on more family closeness and fun by doing what the calendar says rather than embracing occasions as they happen or being spontaneous sometimes. I have no idea if he may have Aspergers or not of course but this is a consideration his dad could perhaps be looking into so if applicable, different strategies might be used to help his son realise that verging from the "norm" every so often is nothing to be fearful of. Otherwise, if DP feels he's still being unduly influenced by his mother regarding when he sees his dad - after all, she may welcome a regular pattern so she knows exactly when she has the house to herself etc - he needs perhaps to be a bit more proactive on that front, by being more persistent and insistent over, for example, special family occasions. He could also impress upon SS that he'd like to take him out for a drink and pin him down over a date - even if it's not on the rota - rather than, for example, just shrugging if SS says no. And if he says no, challenge him - is he doing something else that night ?, does he want to do something different perhaps instead ? In other words, try to make SS see that he's allowed to organise himself and do what he wants (within reason) and that actually, that's one of the best bits about being an adult.

Not that he should "have" to do any of this of course. Most young adults are chomping at the bit long before 18 desperate to do their own thing - but for whatever reason (lack of confidence ? fear of upsetting mother ? Aspergers ?), he seems unable to do this for himself and unless he's given a helping hand this very silly situation where he turns up to what - for him - might be mind-numbing and "uncool", whilst at the same time missing out on all sorts of stuff he might really enjoy.

It must be very frustrating and acknowledging that, or even having a moan about it, does NOT mean that you don't care about him or don't want him there full stop. Do think about the shops suggestion - I know it's a bit of a bribe and shouldn't be necessary but as it seems he's coming over no matter what it might be a "solution" if you really think he's going to take the shine off the Santa thing because he hates it ..... can't think of many 18 year olds who wouldn't be happy to mooch round the shops for an hour or so with an unexpected bit of money in their pocket.

catsmother · 11/12/2013 12:26

(should read) : very silly situation continues where he turns ...