Maintenance now dsd is 18. Opinions please.

[clumsymum]

I'm stepmother to two, now aged 23 and 18, I've been married to their Father for 13 years. I was NOT the reason for the divorce, didn't know him then.

The 18 y.o. is just doing A'levels, and about to go to Uni (as far as we know, she doesn't actually have much contact with us, her choice).

I've always accepted that dh had responsibility to pay for his children, and have never complained or commented. When his eldest was 18 and left home, dh reduced his maintenance payments to X wife by 1/3, so has been paying 180 pounds per month.

Until a couple of years ago we saw the kids every week, but recognised that as they grew up they had things they wanted to do, so made it an informal arrangement, and told them they can see us whenever they like, just ring.

DSD has basically stopped any contact with us. She has never shown any affection or regard for her father, NEVER bought him a birthday card, or any sort of present. There isn't any animosity, just a general 'can't be bothered'ness about it. If dh phones or texts her, she doesn't chat really, or doesn't reply.

I have suggested that when she finishes school, he needs to change his approach to maintenance (assuming she stays in education. If she doesn't, maintenance stops anyway). I suggested that he pays it to her, not her mother, at £150 per month.

I think this is more than many students will get, and as her mother now has a very good job (I reckon earning as much as dh does, if not more) she can contribute too.

I'm not intending to be mean, but I do feel aggrieved that she makes no effort to contact her father, or her little step-brother, who misses her a great deal, and often asks why we don't see her any more. She didn't acknowledge his 6th birthday, BTW.

No one has an opinion then?

I think it is a very good idea to pay the maintenance to the child once it reaches 18. Why should the child's mother have it, especially if the child is going to Uni, DSD will need it there, better than in child's mother's pocket.

I have a DSD. Do not get on, cannot stand her. She is only 11, if I speak to her she ignores me. Goes her tells her mother lies and then mother writes nasty letters and sends nasty texts to my husband.

DSD is coming on holiday with us in October - I do not want to go. Making me very upset.

I have an opinion but no experience.
I think you are right that maintenance would have to change when she gets to 18 but don't think it can be determined by how much contact she has with you and your family.
I guess you would have to think about if she lived with you and how much support she would have (board and lodging, lifts to places etc)and think about it from that point.
Lots of 18 year olds live with their families and don't talk to them eithere!

clumsymum

Not been in your position, but it sounds like you're being pretty generous.

Just on the contact/thinking of others point of view, I get really riled at the lack of thought or acknowledgement given by various kids who are now in their 20's, and should think about sending cards, keeping in touch, saying thank you for gifts etc. But it seems to be the norm, even if it is totally bad mannered!

Hopefully, when your stepchildren are older and parents themselves, they'll have the odd twinge of guilt about how they behaved

Hyacinth
Why are you taking her if she can't be sufficiently well-mannered to speak to you?

Hi Clumsymum

There was another thread recently about this and it got a bit heated but fwiw this is how DH has handled it with his children, who are 18 & 19.

The original court order (he never paid via CSA) stated that maintenance should continue to be paid until the age of 16 or when DSS & DSD left full time education.

When they turned 15 he started paying them the money directly.

DH always explained to them carefully that he would continue to pay them the money until they left full time education, at which time he would expect them to get jobs, and at that point would continue to support them financially on a as & when basis rather than a fixed monthly amount.

Anyway both of them (disappointing to us - but their choices) left school at 16 and are both now working. DH is currently paying for both their driving lessons, and will probably contribute towards tax & insurance as & when they get their own transport, I should imagine. DSS has already bought himself a run-around for when he passes his test.

I think the not making contact thing is just something you have to bite back on tbh.

Your DH has a responsibility towards his children even if they never speak, and whilst DH won;t tolerate taking the p*ss (DSD in particular is currently similar to your DSD and we have little contact, she also only contacts when she wants something paid for!), he still has to support her until she can support herslef (which she is basically doing now with a job and lives with her boyfriend).

I think the decision needs to be based on

1. What the original financial settlement was (e.g. did your DH sign over equity at the time of divorce so that BM could house DSD until she left home)
2. What the court order stated
3. What is fair in terms of how much support is actually required & how much financial support the BM is still having to provide.

You have to detach from teh emotions of the situation I think.

HTH

Hi fairyjay,

My DH wants her to come. It's bad enough when she comes to stay on the weekend but the thought of a whole week of being ignored is really getting me down. :(

My husband and I had our own DS (now 19 months. DSD ignored me long before he was born so DS was not the cause of it. DSD won't ask me things (sorry I'm having a rant now). If I was pushing my DS and DSD wanted a go she would not ask me but would ask DH and he would then ask me. It's ridiculous.

DH says DSD is sensitive, sensitive my foot, she is just plain rude.

Sorry for the rant!!

On a slightl difernt slant my ss lives with us now has turn 16 has left school mother will do anything to dip out of paying maintenance she already has said that it stops at 16 unlucky. If csa was not involved she wouldnt pay a penny. personally i think that when they become 18 and are at uni etc the money should go to them direct.

Hycacinth i know how you feel. ss has been awful since dh i married 4 yo. his parents split up when he was 3.

My Dad paid for us until we left full time education or turned 19 whichever was first.

If she goes to uni then yes I would pay it direct to her, if she goes to college and still lives at home pay it to the mum but if she drops out of education all together then stop paying.

Loosing contact with one set of parents is very easy to do and difficult to resolve. My Dad and Stepmum live over 200 miles away and I visited once a year sometime twice for 1-2 weeks a time, at about 17 I lost contact with my Dad it became more and more difficult to contact him even though I thought about him and my stepmum all the time, in the end on my 19th birthday I broke down in tears at work because someone was talking about there Dad my boss cleared everyone out of the room and made me call him.
Don't be too hard on her she will have a real pang of guilt every now and again but probably doesn't know how to deal with it as yet.

With regards to the rude 11 yr old, stop being so hard on her, I can tell by the amount of hate that comes accross in your post how much you dislike her and she can probably tell as well, so she tells tales to her Mum, she will feel threatened by you and will probably feel somekind of solidarity with her Mum by saying things about you especially if she has over heard things being said at home about you.
Also don't worry about the asking her Dad all the time, it took me years and years to talk to my stepmum properly because I was actually scared of her I mean really scared, it seams silly now but at the time it was horrible.

Hyacinth - I think if I were your stepdaughter, I wouldn't speak to you either. You've said you can't stand her fgs, she's only 11!

With regards to the op, I think it is fair that the maintenance is paid directly to your dsd if she decides to go into further education. I don't think you should give no money at all though if she decides to get a job, the responsibility for a child doesn't end when they reach 16. I'm pretty sure her mum will be still be supporting her, I'm not sure why your dh would think his responsibility had ended.

Then Rickman, when does maintenance stop? If she chooses not to stay in education, then it's up to her to start supporting herself. We all have to grow up sometime. Actually dh would probably divert some money into regular savings to contribute to buying her first house, or paying for a wedding or something, but wouldn't necessarily tell her so.

Obviously if she came to see us there would be little treats, the odd few quid now and then etc., but at present she chooses not to bother with us at all.

Flutterbee, dsd lives 10 miles away, and we have always done the full taxi service, picking her up and taking her home when she visits. There is no reason for her to loose touch if she doesn't want to. But we can't force her to contact us, and wouldn't want to.

Her Mum did ring dh a couple of months ago, and point out that she hadn't been to us for a while. DH had to explain that he had told dsd that we were here any time, she could ring to make arrangements if she wanted to come. She hadn't told her mother that.

pay maintenance until she starts at university.

I believe his court order stated that maintenance would be paid while ever the children were in full-time education, so I don't think we have the option on stopping when she starts uni.

I just pray she doesn't go on to a masters of PHD, or we'll never have any money. Mind you, if her gcse and AS results are anything to go by, she won't get quite that far!

I am pretty sure that it is until a child turns 19 or leaves full time education whichever come first. However further education (ie uni) is not covered by this the same as child benefit I think.

I understand what you are saying about loosing touch clumsy but sometimes kids are idiots I know I was especially at that age, so just keep doing what you are doing she will see when she grows up properly how good you have been to her.

Sorry I think its higher education (ie uni)that isn't included.

Further education means 6th form etc and is included.

IF I am totally wrong I do apologise.

Well that's for you to decide CM. When do you think you will stop supporting your ds?

just a note about the contact thing, from the pov of someone whose parents split up. when you're a teenager you're very wound up in your own life, it's not particularly selfish it's just how you are - you are discovering indepdence, dealing with the complexities of friendships and relationships - the thought of missing out on anything your friends might be doing (even if it's just the same as they do every night) is virtually unconscionable. If your parents live together you're lucky in that you can maintain a degree of contact (although as someone else pointed out it might not be much!) just by bumping into them over breakfast/after school/on Sunday mornings - ie you can fit your parents into your life. If they don;t live togther then you need to make arrangements to see them that seem, to you, as a normal (not selfish) teenager, quite a sacrifice and pita. It's not your fault that your parents don;t live together so it's quite an easy step from here to resentment.I would suggest that your dh talk to his dsd and ask her outright - not accusingly thouhg - if there's a way ofseeing each other that would work well for her. could he meet her after school once a week for coffee - that might be a "dead" time from the pov of her social life (I know, he's probably at work, but think abot what I just said). The important thing is for your dh not to take the lack of ocntact personally. unless there's a tangible problem I doubt it is. But the other important thing is not to let it drift - she will coz she's essentially still a kid - and your dh might really miss out.

his dd! of course

twwtswah - good point.

clumsymum, I think that telling her she can ring whenever she wants to come, leaving it all up to her, is expecting a lot. If there's the slightest doubt in her mind about whether she'll be welcome that particular day, it's easier for her to leave it.

The longer she leaves it the more out of touch she is about what's going on in your house day to day and the harder it gets.

I'm not saying you wouldn't welcome her - but she might think you'd have things you'd rather do, or your son's friends coming round. If she's not good about answering texts and phone calls she might think you'd be reproachful.

I have friends who say 'you know where we are, come any time' and I sometimes wish they would actually ask me, invite me, instead of leaving it to me to risk imposing on them.

She might be hurt that you didn't invite her to come and celebrate her brother's birthday - even if she'd have said no - iyswim.

Wouldn't assume she's rejecting you and her Dad at all.

But he DOES try to stay in touch. He rang last night, for example, she didn't answer her phone, last week he texted just to ask how she was, how are the exams going, no reply.

We left the ball in her court as far as visits were concerned, simply becos there had been a number of occasions when we had made arrangements to collect her for a visit, and when dh had driven over to collect her, she had gone out, not told us, so he had wasted an hour of his time and a gallon of petrol, with no apology or thanks.

I REALLY DON'T think we're in the wrong here, as I say we don't feel resentful about paying maintenance, just wanted to know what seemed appropriate.

And Rickman, if DS decides to leave education at 18, I won't be paying him an allowance either. He will be expected to support himself, and if he still lives at home, he'll pay board, just like I did after Uni.

clumsymum, I didn't mean to say anything about who's in the right or wrong, and I know your main reason for posting was about the maintenance, but I posted cos I do feel a bit for your dsd - even if she does behave selfishly - simply because I know from first-hand experience that having divorced parents is really quite crap, that the impact on children can be underestimated, and that it's difficult for people - everyone - to see things from other people's pov. my dad hardly ever sees his grandchildren, mainly because of the simple fact that living apart from him when I was a teenager meant that we drifted, and I just think it's really sad, so I kind of feel a bit compelled to put my two pennorth in when the subject comes up. hope you didn't mind.

But surely the board would be subsidised or are you going to split all the bills down the middle and make him pay his share of the mortgage?

Rickman, She might be only 11 but she should be told to repond to me when I ask her a question, this has been going on for years and years. It's ridiculous. She is rude and she should be told not to ignore people. She also ignores other people, not just me, if we go out to a restaurant and waiter asks her what she wants she just stares blankly at them. She starts Senior School in September so she needs to wise up and stop being so rude, also her manners are abysmal.

With all due respect, you do not have to put up with being ignored week after week, month after month it's not fair on me, I have tried and tried, and quite frankly I have had enough.

Whatever! Can't be arsed to argue about it. If you look though, I think you'll find that I'm not the only one who thought you were being hard on her.

I don't want to argue either but it is so hard and I am beginning to dread seeing her every week. Don't know what else to do. Have tried speaking to DH but he doesn't help at all. Fell like chucking it all in and running away with my DS - only trouble is have nowhere to go. Also my step dad is very ill - dying of cancer - don't feel I can cope with much more - everything is falling to pieces.

Just want someone to talk to.