SS challenges our plans regarding "flexible visiting arrangements" - please help

[Petal02]

I?d really like your thoughts/advice on the events of the last 48 hrs.

It was all going really well; SS came to us on Weds for his midweek night, and was then back for the weekend, but we?ve been sensible and decided to pick him up on Sat morning, take him home at 6pm on Sunday, as a ?weekend? is Saturday/Sunday to most people. Everyone seemed relaxed, and yesterday I commented to DH that I was going to sit down with SS and the calendar, and work out some visiting dates for the next two weeks. DH was fine about it.

I proposed dates which basically meant alternate weekends plus a midweek night, although the midweek night was a Tues instead of a Weds on one occasion, and also weekends now run from Sat to Sun, rather than Thurs to Sun (we used to class Thurs as the midweek night if it was an access weekend). I thought SS would be happy with this, as it didn?t constitute any less access, just ?little and often? rather than the Thurs-Sun marathons.

But SS kept reiterating he wanted to go back to the rota, and couldn?t see any reason why we should be flexible. I responded that flexibility was the best way forward, given he?s now left school (he left on Friday ? although he?s likely to go to 6th form in Sept). It was a calm conversation, no raised voices, however we didn?t reach agreement. So SS seeks out DH, and tells him he?s not happy. DH tells SS he?ll think about it. I speak to DH, DH confirms SS is not happy, and promises to speak to him about it. I ask DH if he?s going to back down, DH says no, but that it needs to be handled delicately.

I then go out for an hour, knowing that discussions will take place in my absence. I get home to find there?s a definite atmosphere. So DH takes SS back home at 6pm and when he got back I asked him what happened. He said he hadn?t backed down (phew), and has told SS to ?give flexibility a go? and that after a few months if SS still isn?t happy, we can talk about it again ??.. fair enough, but I could tell DH was upset. He went on to say that SS hates change, that he?d had the rug pulled from under him when his parents split up, and that we need to tread very carefully. I replied carefully (not raising my voice) and said that whilst I took DH?s comments on board, we?re not creating huge changes for SS (it?s not like there?s a new school, new house, new baby to contend with), its only changing days, not reducing time. Also, (as I keep saying) SS is nearly 17, and he?s just left school. Surely he shouldn?t be quite so fragile? And, it?s 7 years since DH split with his ex ? just how long is DH supposed to continue with guilt parenting and compensatory behaviour??????

DH did concede that maybe he should make more efforts to promote flexibly by suggesting ad-hoc golf/pizza etc outside of planned visits. I?m fully in favour of this, it would bring about a more ?grown up? relationship with SS/DH, rather than the present childlike situation.

So whilst DH, to his credit, stood firm when challenged, it?s made me realise how shaky all this is. DH actually has quite similar views to me, regarding how things should be with someone of SS's age, but it?s clear that the execution of these plans, and the fear of upsetting SS, really troubles him.

Thoughts please.

I'm no horror NeverSayPie I just have a sense of humour, you have to when you're a stepmother, there's nothing or no-one else who'll help you through it.

well said rhirhi

Not sure which poster it was, but someone used the following statement as some sort of 'proof' that the DSS needs therap "The boy is unmotivated, lacks energy and ambition and is clinging to routine"

Now personally, I come across a hell a lot of people in life who fit that description. It takes all sorts. In fact unfortunately a lot of them have managed to get jobs and they're incredibly frustrating to work with! But they exist nonetheless. They must all have had abusively neglective fathers and very wicked colluding stepmothers - poor souls

exactly RhiRhi and allnew Some posters seem to arrange their answers according to forum position, if this were in Parenting or Teenagers they would be saying 'sounds normal to me, - he just needs a kick up the arse' .

In fact there was one in Teenagers the other day, teen wanted to be entertained during holidays but couldn't be bothered to arrange anything with his own mates, - didn't want to go out. Were there any suggestions that this lad was withdrawn and needed therapy? was damaged in some way ? was being neglected by his Mother because she was to busy trying to get him out of the house to notice he was suffering?

No of course not, just 'some teens are like that' followed by helpful constructive suggestions or 'insist that he goes out' and 'tell him to go get a job'

I kid you not.

God it really is a laugh a minute this step-mother malarky. It's got a definate stigma to it - I blame Cinderella

Sorry this it not a joking matter - I must remain serious (However I did laugh about the seagulls yoshi)

It wasn't Cinderella's fault it was that evil stepmother of hers!

I am a horror though aren't I?

A horror who has done everything for her stepsons for 13 years, cooked for, clothed, cleaned up their sick, de-liced, wormed, taught them, taxi'd, listened to their worries helped and reassured one of them through the most personal private operation a young lad could go through because his own mother 'couldn't face it'.

I am Maleficent

This boy has no friends. He doesn't leave the house unless he has to, in transit to the other house. He is unmotivated, lacks energy and has no ambition. This is not normal teenage laziness. The DH's friends have noticed something is wrong. This is not a bash-the-wicked-stepmother thing either. I have teenagers and I have seen my share of normal teenage stuff and this ain't it.

I have seen relationships under strain too, and the OP and her DH have a major bone of contention here, a lot of anger built up and a very unhealthy dynamic at play.

So it appears the stepmums are going to circle the wagons and pretend this is all about them. Meanwhile a child is floundering and the adults who should help are busy with their own drama and no help will be forthcoming. Stepmum points finger at DH and the evil mother, with pent up anger at the DH and his misplaced priorities adding to the vitriol aimed at the mother. Mother has lost sight of what's important in all of this. DH apologises to a child for his existence and has also lost sight of what's important here -- his relationship with the OP and the wellbeing of his own child.

Essentially we have a whole set of so-called adults here who think this is all about them.

I feel truly sorry for this boy and I hope for his sake that everyone concerned will get over themselves.

He is not a child! He could legally father a child (God forbid!). He has to grow up at some point and continuing to baby him isn't going to help. This has been the cause of his problems and is definately not the solution.

He is clearly not an adult either, and the OP herself and her DH seem to be taking responsibility for him as if he was a child. He lives with adults in their houses. He has until just recently been going to school. And it really does not matter whether or not he could father a child, legally or otherwise. A lot of boys could father a child from age 14. This particular boy is highly unlikely to father a child since he has no friends and presumably no girlfriend either.

He has been babied all his life. He needs serious help to climb out of the deep rut he is in. He has no idea that there is another way to live. If he had even an ounce of an instinct to grow up, become self-sufficient, and strike out on his own (normal teenage boy) he would at least have some friends. Sadly, he seems to have no social skills and the result is utter loneliness. He is probably depressed. He needs to be assessed because the description provided by Petal is not that of normal teenage life, or even normal life for a teenager of whom nothing has been expected by way of maturity. There are plenty of spoiled teens out there who at least have friends (horrible though those friends may be) and the social skills and instincts to go out and get friends and keep them. This boy does not.

It is obviously far easier to express frustration at the 17 year old than to actually do the spadework, force the DH to sign on to reality and make the changes he will have to undertake, and then force the DSS to go to counselling, (tackle the mother about it), and obviously not easy for Petal to take on board advice from others; she seems to prefer to do things her own way regardless.

I should point out that I don't think anyone is "evil" in this situation. I'm not evil, not matter what the "therapy crowd" think; my husband isn't evil, he genuinely thinks he's acting in his son's best interests, and the ex isn't evil either, I don't think there's any deliberate ill-intent towards SS on her part.

For as long as I've been with DH, everyone has focussed intently on adhering to the rota, to the point where tunnel vision has taken over, no one can see beyond the rota (although DH is beginning to realise there's life beyond it) and I could easily envisage a situation whereby if I weren't suggesting change and/or if he doesn't go to uni, then access weekends would carry on, well into SS's twenties.

Because access takes place on prescribed days, just as sure as Monday follows Tuesday, it would never cross anyone's mind to change that. And it's that very behaviour which has created the situation I'm posting about. SS has become almost institutionalised, and by gently easing him out of the strict routine he's used to, I'm hopeful other positive changes will follow. We've got to start somewhere.

DH is very keen that SS finds a job over the summer, but he'll never find a job that fits in with the rota. However SS is thinking that he can't get a job BECAUSE of the rota. So we need to subtley shift his thinking on that. DH is aware that he has contributed towards SS's belief that the rota is absolute, which is one of the reasons why he's keen for flexibilty. He's realised that changes need to happen if his son is ever to find paid employment.

I'm sure when Silverfrog's stepchildren leave uni and start work she won't think it strange if they're still observing acces weekends as per the consent order; what fun they must have had during freshers week "ooooh can't go to the pub with my mates tonight , the rota states Dad's picking me up at 6pm ......." And what do they do about evening lectures if they don't fit in with the consent order???? God help me.

But we want a healthier lifestyle for SS, which is why we're making changes.

Petal, it is absolutely not the rota that has created this situation.

I have an exH who rigidly insisted on the sacred rota right up to age 18 for DS. Every second weekend bang on time the rota had to be honoured, and if DS wasn't ready or didn't want to go, tough. DS has a group of friends, a busy social life, fought tooth and nail with his father for flexibility about the rota to the point where exH took me to court, and danced a jig when he turned 18 and gained his freedom. Everyone in DS's and the other DCs' lives has told them that the rota is absolute since it first began. It was ordered by the courts and is enforceable by the courts.

The rota is a convenient shield for you all to hide behind and ignore reality. Changing the rota will not help. He needs a professional evaluation and professional help.

The details about DS are there to make a point that a teen's instinct is to rebel against a rigid rota, not cling to it. A teen in a house where, for example, regimented chores or churchgoing are required will push against that too.

"Petal, it is absolutely not the rota that has created this situation"

mathanxiety it's interesting that you claim to know more about Petal's DSS than she does. And I don't citing one other case is constitutes a statistically relevant sample

"a teen's instinct is to rebel against a rigid rota, not cling to it. A teen in a house where, for example, regimented chores or churchgoing are required will push against that too"

You're making extremely large assumptions there mathsanxiety. If you'd stated 'the majority' I'd agree, but it's simply ridiculous to assert that the teenage population in its entirety would all act the same way in those circumstances

DSS1 for example clings to the rigid access rota and would never question it. DSS2 has questioned it for years.
Horses for courses - different personalities

I didn't say it was a 'statistically relevant' sample . Just an example to illustrate a point. There is a difference between clinging to a rota and using it as an excuse to avoid having a life, and accepting it and going along with it.

There has been a lot of talk here of 'lazy' teens and how allegedly normal that is -- and yet I don't see the wagon circlers/ anti therapy/ hairsplitting crowd challenging that particular assumption or dismissing it on grounds of 'statistical relevance'. In fact, it is the massive assumption that underpins their entire argument. Also, conveniently ignored in favour of the 'DSS is lazy' theory are the references by Petal to his complete lack of friends and a social life, participation in organised activities, his complete lack of motivation to change this, and the absence of any ambition either to go on in school despite being intelligent, or find a job.

And as for the old chestnut that I don't know the DS here -- umm, neither do you if it comes to that. All I have to go on is what the OP has said herself, and actually, that is enough for me.

Petal - you can back pedal all you want, but the boy you describe (and have done so often) needs help.

It is in no way normal to be as socially isolated as he is, as dependent on adults as he is (aside from the usual pandering stuff). You have said time and again that he panics about changing the rota. that he clings to your dh (physically) when with you - something else that irks you.

lazy teens are one thing - I have had both mine go through (and are still in!) the don't-get-out-of-bed-until-hungry phase, and the dump-stuff-as-soon-as-you-are-thrugh-the-door phase, and the can't-remember-where-the-bin/dishwasher/laundry basket-is phase. along with the "can't be arsed" attitude.

it is nowhere near what you have (repeatedly) described.

as for you comments regarding my stepchildren - if you find it amusing ot mock a young person with a severe disablity trying her hardest to get on in life, then please do carry on. I find it distasteful. we have not had a strict access rota for years now (we do have a strict amount of time set out in it - that is still adhered to, for summer holidays etc), but dsd does still struggle with the change (and all the more so if other things in her life are changing too, like going to uni)

as for your ocmments about wanting "something healthier" for your ss - well pmsl. can I remind you that I am the one with the fully functioning step children, who no longer physicaly cling ot dh, are able to form friendships, have plans in life (that are not made for them by their parents)?

carry on in your delusions - you are obviously not actually that keen to help your ss, otherwise you would listen to some of the people here who are saying this is not a normal situation. in fact, you did listen a littel earlier in the htread, but hid behind "there's nothign I can do!" - it wa sonly once it was pointed out there was plenty you could do, and once the step-mums wagons pulled round in that cosy little circle, that you reverted to "nothing wrong! national service! that is all that's needed! oh, and of course I'm to blame, I'm the stepmother" crap

Silverfrog, I am not back pedalling.

You say you have healthy, functional step children???? Yet they go to uni and still observe the consent order during the holidays? If thats healthy, then I'll give it a miss.

I have said more than once that dsd has a severe disability - she is autistic.

yes, she still needs to "book in"her time with dh - it is part of how she runs her calendar. I have also pointed out, many times, that sometimes, some people cannot cope with flexibility, and unpredictability. howver, you prefer to retain the narrow-minded view that she does htis because she is lazy, and needs a good kick up the backside, and probably some national service [hmm[

carry on mocking - it is clearly all you are able to do

May be in the future you could coincide the rota to include SS and your DH collecting their pension together on a Thursday with a nice cup of tea afterwards . Hey you know I am joking .

To be honest i think if petals SS did have a mental health problem the school would have picked up on it by this stage. Teachers are trained to spot these types of things and work day in day out with the age group to know what the 'norm' is. I'm sure if the school thought there was something wrong with the way SS was behaving they would have risen it with his mother and father, however as they haven't i'm guessing the issue is as Petal says it is.

If petals SS has had the access rota in place for that long it is obviously now considered the norm which is why he is finding the change difficult. It's like asking someone who is right handed to start using their left hand. It will take time to adjust.

The rota is probably why petals SS is the way he is. Due to having had such structure within the rota he may have passed up the opportunity to join clubs or go to a friends etc because 'i'm seeing my dad that day' and in my experience someone will only ask if u fancy hanging out a few times with the response no before they stop asking. And now due to the changes he's probably got nothing to do on a saturday (because he's been used to being with his dad on that day) which probably means he wants to revert back to the old rota simply because he is bored and has nothing else to do because it's been in place for so many years.

Petal is by no means in the wrong for wanting to implement change to the rota after this long and if SS can start to come out of his shell a bit and realise it can work he will benefit, because next time someone offers him to do something on a weekend or a friday night he'll be able to. I suspect that this will become more appealing to him as he starts college or a job as he will make new friends. It just takes time.

oh dear god. try living in the real world, rhirhi.

schools are not "trained" to pick this kind of thing up. unless the boy is disruptive, and causing a disturbance, they will in almost all cases not notice a thing.

Ok 'voice of experience' you say ur DSD is autistic i'm sure u have found help within therapists etc etc because that was right for your family and ur DH obviously agreed at the time.

However read the rest of my post i really don't think i'm that far wrong to say that the rota has contributed to petals SS growing into an insecure boy that has trouble adjusting to change, along with his parents break up and having to deal with new siblings on his mothers side. This however is what happens in step families - new arrivals come along which may or may not be wanted by the step children but the best has to be made of the situation it's not the child or the stepmothers fault that the relationship between the childs 2 parents didn't work. And becuase of this SS has i'm sure clung onto the rota for some security and norm it's just down to the way things have been handled he's not going to turn into a recluse if the rota is changed and he doesn't see a therapist he just needs some guidance from his parents and Petal.

So the teachers who have spent every day with Petal's SS will not have spotted what the mumsnet therapy brigade - who have never even met him - have clearly seen.

That is arrogance beyond measure.

Quiet children with problems fly under the radar. Schools notice disruption, fighting, talking back, not handing in homework. To assume that the teachers would have seen something amiss is nothing but an assumption. The boy might have functioned well within the expectations of the school wrt behaviour in class -- if he is as fond of routine as he seems to be, he may well have even appeared happy in school.

There is nothing obvious to be concluded about the school allegedly not noticing a problem. They might have just contacted the mother if they saw something, and she may have chosen to ignore it; perhaps she herself sits at home blaming it on teenage laziness and/or the boy's father. Possibly mutters to herself that he's just like his dad...

And there would be nothing unusual in a teenage boy wanting to spend time with dear old dad instead of his friends occasionally. But to never accept invitations (and it is an assumption that there have been invitations), to never leave the house, to physically cling to his father?