My own experiences

[theredhen]

I have been doing a lot of thinking over the past few weeks.

I have been recalling my own childhood when I lived with my Mother (she was a widow) and my experiences of her boyfriends.

She had a number of boyfriends and although I was only 5/6 years old at the time, I can remember most of them very clearly.

I too was a single child of a single Mum (as my son is) and I remember the very strong feeling that most of these men just "put up" with me. Most of them completely ignored me, to be honest, and I wasn't particularly bothered.

I do remember one who used to play with me and taught me to play chess and generally made the effort. I recall my Mother telling me that when she dumped him, he told her that he was more fond of me than of her! If he had told me off, I would have had some respect for that man because I felt he was giving me something postive and therefore he was also entitled to give something "negative". I would have listened because I wanted his approval.

My mother had another boyfriend who probably did actually do a lot of things on a practical basis and a financial one for me but there was no bond there at all. I still remember very clearly crying at his dinner table because he insisted I eat the dinner he had cooked for me, (which I recall as being bloody awful, lol) and refused to let me leave the table until I had done so. I remember the resentment and hatred I felt for him and also for my Mother who allowed him to talk to me like dirt. I can remember he took great pleasure in wielding his power over me.

I want to have the relationship with my step children that the first boyfriend I mentioned had with me, I am very scared that OH is having the same relationship that the second boyfriend had with me with my son.

How old is your son Redhen and from what age has your DP been in his life ?

My son is twelve. My partner has been in his life for two and a half yrs.

Your post makes me very sad for you redhen. I don't have any answers but I just wanted you to feel supported here.

Sorry its so hard to keep up with who's who on here and who has DCs or DSCs or both etc etc.

Do you and your OH have any children together or does your OH have any of his own for you to notice any differential treatment ?

My DH often openly admits that he cant love other peoples children - luckily we met when all ours were grown up so it was never a deal breaker. But in his opinion some people just find it really hard to love other peoples children however much they love the parent. My DHs DGD for example is 6 - I have been with DH since she was a baby and I totally love her as a grandaughter and as I do my own DGKs - she is just now one of my GKs - end of. But my DH does not love my DGS - same age - that may sound heartless and cruel but its just true. He will be nice and kind to him and we treat them all the same at Xmas etc etc but he doesnt have an affectionate huggy kissy relationship with him.

Now heres the interesting bit - my DH seems to have bonded much better with my 2 DGDs - they are 7 and 10. I still wouldnt say that he loves them as much as his own DGD though. I wonder if its maybe a male thing - harder to bond with another male child - unless theyre your own ? They do say girls are for their dads and boys for their mums dont they.

I mean I wouldnt ever tolerate my DH treating my DGKs differently or unfairly - which he wouldnt anyway but at the end of the day he cant help his feelings and cant make himself actually love them like his own.

All this is ironic REDHEN as you know my well documented tale of woe wrt my adult SS who lives with us. You would think my DH would therefore understand much better why I find his presence intrusive and DH doesnt in light of all above.

Hi Redhen, your post makes me realise just how difficult it is to be a step-parent and what a fine line we tread. I'm sorry that your experiences were so mixed - I knew that my DH had a son and so they came as a "package" rather than Husband and occasional extra. I am willing to admit that I do find it hard work, and I don't know whether that is because I'm not a mother already and don't have that insight, or (and I'm sure that probably both apply) whether being a step-parent is just hard work anyway!
I would hope that DSS will look back from adulthood (he's 8 at the moment) and say that the years with me were good, I would be mortified if he said otherwise.
I find these boards hugely supportive even though I don't post that often, I really hope that your situation works out.

Can I just add on re-reading my post and visualising a poor little boy stood in a corner while all the other DGKs are getting hugs and kisses from their Grandad/Stepgrandad - that it is my DGDs who will launch themselves at my DH - they went to him originally not the other way round - DH is very reserved but they are very affectionate girls always have give him big hugs and kisses and broke this down IYSWIM ( they live a distance away ) and my DGS is their cousin - not their sibling. I just know my DH would not feel comfortable on the odd occasion when they are all in same room with actually asking my DGS for a kiss and a hug aswell because he'd just had one from my DGDs - but I also know that if my DGS did go over to DH and join in the huggy stuff - my DH would not reject him and reciprocate.

Sorry I think I'm talking 'broken biscuits' now but I know what I mean.

Bahhhumbug - No, we don't have any children together, but OH has 4 children and I have one.

My experience was very limited, indeed it wasn't my mother who brought me up in the end and she never lived with any of the boyfriends, and I've never really given it much thought until recently.

When I look back, I didn't really care whether my Mother had a boyfriend or not, as long as life still carried on in a positive way, I was only a kid, I liked someone who played with me, whether it be another child or an adult. If they weren't interested in me, that was fine too - I would just find something else to do. What did bother me was when the only attention I got was negative - I remember feeling very strongly that this person had no right to tell me off or discipline me. To be fair, I was a bit of a sensitive soul who would have been very upset by the slightest critisism, but even so.

My son isn't so sensitive and he will push the boundaries more and he will speak his mind. I suspect he is less wounded by the negativity than I would have been.

I don't want to be the disciplinarian to my step kids, I want us to have house rules, which are firm but fair and all the children abide by them. I want to be able to remind the children of these rules and ask them to respect them. I want ultimate discipline to be left to their father, I don't want to discipline them, it's not my place. I want to be the disciplinarian to my son, I want him to abide by the same rules. I want to be the one to enforce things for him. The only way I can have things any different is for OH to have a really positive relationship with DS, and after 2.5 yrs, it's not happening. I don't mind, I really don't, but then he has to accept that he can't be the disciplinarian to him. I feel OH wants it both ways.

I know exactly what you mean - sorry to harp back to my 23yr old resident s/son but I had got to the stage after years and years of trying ( met him at 16 ) to get on with him - trying to engage with him , the charm offensive , rewarding good behaviour,sanctions for bad - really you name it I had tried it and I finally got to the exhausted stage which I am pretty much still in now - you know when you cant keep going round and round any longer !! - whereby I decided to ignore him/his presence as much as possible except for basic necessities and civilities.

But you know what happened then ? He got away with even more murder than ever with his dad and behaved much worse because all his dad ever heard between me and him was me having a go at him when he really overstepped the mark or did something I really couldnt ignore. He obviously never heard any nice chatty supportive conversation from me to his son so he would jump on me when he heard me say anything negative - no matter how henious the crime by his son !!

I think it is a bit selfish of these dads to want it both ways - my DH almost expects me to be this loving giving all embracing mother type figure to his biological (both grown up - so harder) kids and GKs (little cute - not so hard). Yet as in my previous post it is ok for him to openly admit he takes mine (adult kids and GKs) as he finds them really and his feelings vary in degree from one to another - as all our feelings do I suppose with non relatives.

I must admit although DP is good with practicalities when it comes to DS, I feel he hasn't really tried (or simply can't) to have a positive emotional relationship with DS. Because we have had some run ins over his (in my opinion) over zealous critisism of DS, I am now hyper sensitive to anything DP says to DS. I can see how I could go the other way completely and not discipline DS myself because I feel sorry for him that OH is constantly critical. I wonder if that is how your OH feels? I'm not saying it's right, but he could be trying to compensate by not insisting on things with DS because of your perceived negativity?

And yes, I am really struggling with being super bloody step mum to FOUR kids, who I have no say over when they arrive or when they go and yet, he can't even manage to be positive with my ONE child. [HMM]

The injustice is something I am certainly struggling with right now.

Redhen, I agree your sitatuion is unjust. You're supposed to be Mother Teresa/SuperNanny with HIS kids, but he doesn't extend the same courtesy to YOUR son. And I also feel Suda's frustration, where her husband openly admits it's hard to get on with other people's children, but can't understand why Suda finds his son so challenging.

It it bio-blinkers, is it just plain selfishness? But it's definitely a double-standard. These men seem to want it all their own way.

So basically my DH probably feels like you do when he hears me pull his son up about something or complain about him because I havent ( and have given up on ever having ) a close relationship with his son.

But it is so difficult and I know my situation is very different because of the age of my SS but is along the same theory.

I think it maybe a case of every time a natural parent hears the stepparent robustly discipline or complain about their child - however justified - that its just another - maybe even subconscious - reminder or confirmation that the stepparent doesnt love their (young or adult)child. ??

But the bottom line is you cannot - and you seem to be fine with this - as I am - make someone love someone else in a certain way or any way for that matter. But I dont think that should mean the Sparent should have to walk round on eggshells and cant check even really bad behaviour because they dont feel parental love for the child. Having said that though I agree with you that it is much better to leave the main disciplining on the more serious matters to the natural parent in these instances. Thats not to say - 'Will you come downstairs and ask your son to wipe his feet please - he's covered in mud' !! It could all get ridiculously petty.

Have you spoke about any of this to your OH ? - Could you not tell him how it makes you feel and why from your own experience ?
What if you disciplined his children in the same way - could you ask him how it would make him feel - affronted probably !

Another thing aswell that I've picked up on from my DH is a great sadness that I dont like ( if I am honest I dont ) his son - he loves us both and I have only tried to - if not love - at least grow fond and closer to his son for as long as I have for my DHs sake. I know it would make him so happy if we had a good relationship (we may well have when he leaves home !) Maybe subconsciously you wish your OH did love your son and whenever you observe him playing just the 'disciplining' father figure it makes you feel a bit sad that he doesnt play the rest of the part ? Just a thought.

Sorry not much practical advice but just my ramblings really - feel free to ignore -

Just a thought REDHEN but would it be worth a try ( and I know its hard ) to maybe just try to stop yourself from leaping in to defend your son ( obviously if your DP throws him out in the snow for four hours for dropping a sweet wrapper then fine - leap away ! ) - maybe for a couple of weeks and see if it maybe breaks this stepfamily ever increasing circle of over-discipling leads to over-defending leads to even more over-disciplining leads to even more over-defending etc etc. Sometimes I think you just get locked into it. Or maybe if you have been a little over lenient with your son lately try not to be - especially when DP around and maybe - just maybe - your DP might just back off a little - then you will and who knows ? Worth a try I suppose .

Suda,

I think it's hard having another adult in the house with you even when it's your own child, let alone one who isn't and I really feel for you. I know plenty of people who have struggled with having their own children at home when they've been that age. I suspect your relationship will not improve until he moves out.

I am very aware of how I FEEL but I don't demonstrate that to OH very often. I have certainly tried to be very firm on DS recently, so that I can't be accused of being "soft" and am watching all the time to see how the two of them interract. I'd be surprised if either DS or OH knew just how much I am watching and viewing their relationship. I never critisise OH and his disciplining of DS in front of DS or his children and have more often than not, not said anything about specific events. It was only when I noticed that one weekend, OH did nothing at all but critisise DS while his own children got away with doing the same things or much worse while nothing was said to them. I tried then to have a quiet word about having the same rules for all the children once kids were out of earshot which got kicked back straight away and a long list of negatives about my son got fired back at me.

I do agree that it would be very, very easy to get locked into the protecting of your own children and I am certainly going to ensure that any wording of any conversations is going to be done very carefully to not seem overly protective. In fact, I think I do this already by always insisting that my DS is not perfect and lising all his faults before I can feel I can then comment on OH's "parenting" towards him. I don't list his childrens faults however, and boy oh boy, I really want to sometimes!

Thats me all out of ramblings then really REDHEN . You're obviously not being too soft on your son nor being overly defensive of him then you cant really try the reverse psychology thing I suppose.

You know what - your paragraph about the one weekend you stood up to be counted and got it thrown back and with some extra mud for your son ! made me really angry. These dads know theyre in the wrong you know - i dont care what anyone says - do any of you Bom friends remember on one thread - months ago - when we asked for a male perspective about why Disney dads or lioness with cub dads are like they are and this chap came on and gave a fascinating insight into it all ? He more or less said that these dads know they are in the wrong but they dont want to discipline their children - especially non resident ones for fear of losing touch etc. So rather than admit they know they are wrong they just act the complete dipshit as otherwise they would have to start disciplining their own kids more. But by not admitting it they get out of jail free and will even go as far as hold up your kids less favourably than theirs just to uphold their point of view. Otherwise they would have to do something. He might have been unfairly negative about your son on that occasion in order to play down his own childrens behaviour because if he had agreed with you then he would have had to do something about it - ie start disciplining his own more and he doesnt want to.

The chap put it much better than that - it was a fascinating insight

honest !

It was like - deny theres a problem = dont have to deal with it. He said they're either too scared to deal with it/discipline their children or theyre too embarrassed (in my DHs case specifically he said that} - so they just completely refuse to acknowledge or at least greatly play down their 'childs' behaviour.

Oh bugger I'll go and look it up.

I'll be back

lol. You make me chuckle. I think it is exactly that. I am learning that OH is a very defensive creature anyway and pretty insecure, if you ask me.

Why is it me and DS only get critisised when I bring up an "issue"? He never says anything any other time. Instant reaction is to throw something back to muddy the water, so he doesn't have to deal with how he behaves. I KNOW it's damn hard parenting someone elses kids, I tell him that I find it difficult, that they are lovely kids, but sometimes it's just so overwhelming. I'm honest with him on that, but not in any way nasty about it. I often tell him that it's my fault and I just need to get used to it. I tell him all this in the vain hope that he will admit to me that he finds my son difficult sometimes and then we could actually communicate and work out ways to make it easier on each other. He won't admit he finds it hard to be around DS (and I know he struggles with his own kids a fair bit too) but he will throw any critisisms, however, gentle back in my face, with a very childish attitude of tale telling and blaming onto a child.

Sometimes I feel his children are ill mannered, disrespectful, ungrateful, selfish little so and so's, but you know what? I don't blame them, I blame their parenting. I don't go telling OH that his kids are awful, but it's OK for him to do that to me?

I'm back

It was Wildfish on Petals thread - 'I was only spending a penny'

worth a look - I mean you all owe it to me - just look at me - I look like I've been dragged through a hedge backwards.

Suda - you make such a good point in your earlier post - that these disney dads are completely aware that they're in the wrong, but they choose not to discipline/guide/educate their children, just in case the child gets upset and refuses to visit any more. Thats EXACTLY how it is. And I also agree that denying there is a problem equates to not having to deal with the problem.

And this gives the child in question too much power. Particularly in the case of your stepson.

I've decided that 2011 will be the year when things HAVE to change in our house. SS finishes mainstream school in May, at which point he is (a) nearly 17; and (b) old enough to go out and get a job. This has surely got to be the point where we can stop the access rota? I'm not suggesting DH sees any less of his son, but to have an access rota for someone who's old enough to go out and work for a living, is MAD MAD MAD. And I really don't want to continue the situation where every visit has to entail an overnight stay. It's just plain weird. If SS is not interested in cultivating any life of his own, that's his choice, but I'm not being restricted to a rota because of it. I understand that babies and small children need routine, but a near-17-yr-old ?????????

Sorry, I knowing I'm banging on about it. But it drives me up the wall. DH is so keen to indulge SS's reluctance to engage with life, that he's actually doing far more harm than good. As DH is the parent, I think it's his responsibility to encourage SS in the direction of some independence.

Redhen - I was in a broadly similar position as you as a kid, and while I didn't really feel that something was missing back then, I now recognise that it was and that the experiences have coloured my life in so many ways.

I have been a step-parent twice now - in a 50/50 access pattern for nearly 7 years, and now in a 70/30 access pattern for the past 2. I really do see the differences in my role in the lives of the kids in these two relationships.

In the 50/50 relationship I was sidelined and while I tried to be more involved it really didn't work out and so many of the difficulties that can trip us up were there in abundance. The relationship was always going to crash and burn - but my step-parenting was detached and sometimes barely tolerant in the end. I only see how much I didn't do now - many years later.

In my current relationship I'm working damn hard to be a much more involved and loving step and the differences, and associated rewards are astounding. Something that happened today surprised me. Because of the snow the kids school was closed - tonight is the start of 'our' weekend and so we were geared up to pick them up from the school bus late afternoon but both had to go to work today. We had a call from Mum first thing to explain that the kids were going to hang out with school friends, but that the family that DSS was with needed him picked up by 1pm. Oh - and could we pick up a couple of bags from her house, she wouldn't leave them out in the snow, just ring the bell because her boyf would be there and could give them to us.

So - hang on - the children were going to other families rather than stay at home with their 'StepDad' (who's been in their lives for about 18 months), an arrangement which involved risky car rides in v heavy snow and a fair bit of juggling - and DSS had to spend the afternoon in work with me after being collected at 1pm.

I took a day of leave in January to spend the day with the DSC's when we had snow that closed their school.

I'm not going to pass judgement on the boyf because there could be a whole raft of reasons - but it really highlighted to me that there are such a wide range of relationship options that step parents could have. For me - while it's been a hellish tricky rollercoaster I'm now glad that I'm trying to jump in feet (& heart) first. Vulnerable - yes, scared & getting it wrong sometimes - yes, but rewarding - hell yes!

RedHen - I hope you get the relationship that you want for your son.

Hello. Just thought I'd chip in.
I'm a step-parent to 2 and DP and I have one of our own.
I care for my DSC's but our relationship is not loving - no hugs/kisses etc, but I'm sure we all like and respect each other.
DP is not a Disney Dad which helps enormously, he parents his kids on the 50:50 basis they are with us exactly the same as if they were here all the time.
It's really not fair on you Redhen that your OH is imposing different rules on his kids/your son and I don't know the answer but if he doesn't stop, it will harm your relationship in the long run.
I've been with my DP and step family for 8 years now and I've taken a long time to get used to and embrace this life, but I've always put the kids needs first - even when I didn't want to and often resented it - but I hope that never showed to them.
Interestingly, I suppose I had got used to the fact that we all live pretty harmoniously together, but DP's ex remarried and sadly it seems that my DSS is clashing with him. DSS is a sweet and charming 17 yr old, but it seems at Mums house he is a sullent recluse. Goes to show that even after all these years and thinking we had it 'sorted' - you can't be complacent.

Thanks PETAL - and MACADOODLE and BEAMUR very well done to you two in the way you have made your families work against the odds. Beamur your success will undoubtedly be greatly helped by your DHs marvellous sensible attitude - could you arrange for him to have a word with our hubbys .

I mean its not hard is it to work out - treat them the same as you would if they lived with you all the time - but oh no lets carry on creating the Golden Child, Little Lord Fontleroy, Little Miss Spoilt and then wonder why our once lovely wives seem to be so resentful bitter and twisted when the Golden Bollocks or Princesses Perfect arrive at Chez Nous.

Interesting from my point of view Macadoodle and Beamur that it seems to be in both your cases older SSs who seem to have a problem with their other Stepparent - or a possible one - at their other parents house. Although you both seem to bob along fine with them there is definitely a problem in the other household in one case and at least a failure to engage in the other household in your story Macadoodle.

Do you think maybe its a territorial thing with adolescent males ?? Hard for them to accept anyone who's entered their lives later on so there is complete refusal to acknowledge instead.?? I wonder because the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when anyone says what a lovely sweet lad my SS is or seems (23yrs old lives with us full time). Tbh I find it hard to take and have to struggle to not give a really sarcastic answer. Plenty of people - some of his own family members even have noticed his ignorance selfishness and sense of entitlement and commented on it however.

Last night DH and I decided to go out for tea - (cant you tell we're Northeners) - and we were debating where to go and I said Fish and Chips - its Friday so its the law (yes definitely Northeners !). So then DH says - I was gonna ask GC (thats my SS btw MAC and BEA - Golden Child} - so I just said 'Ok' - so we went in my car but had just started to snow heavily so I asked DH to drive - hate driving especially in these conditions. Its not far but unfortunately theres a hill and although it had just started snowing and the roads had been gritted the car two in front of us went into a skid down the hill - little van in front stopped ok - DH applies brakes and they werent having it - so we're heading into back of this van basically - we werent going fast obviously but gathering momentum downhill. DH manages to steer round the van on the inside and not quite avoid it but vastly lessened the impact - I thought - sat in front passenger seat - that I was heading for a lampost which he managed to avoid but it hit my wing mirror and folded it in. DH got out and spoke to van driver who was lovely and would not take our details and only had a broken brakelight cover and insisted - 'dont worry about it really - are you all ok' - and praised my DHs very skilful evasive driving or it would have been much much worse. My drivers door wont open fully now because the wing took a knock so theres some panel beating etc required.

We were all physically ok and we carried on to chippy (oh yes definitely true Northeners !!). We had our tea - I couldnt eat mine felt quite queezy from shock I think but ate some of it. The bill was £17 something so I left £20 - I had said earlier I would pay for 3 of us. We came home and DH put my car in garage - me and GBs came in house and GBs went straight in his room and shut the door in front of me (his rooms an en-suite downstairs). I have not seen or spoke to him since.

I dont know why I am telling you all this but this is how I feel this morning: - Last night I thought right for some family harmony I will treat us all to our tea and suggest somewhere that SS likes (I usually choose Indian as he hates that !!) so that when DH asks him he will probably come. I thought I will bite the bullet and even when DH said he would pay half or all of it because GBs was coming I said 'No No - it doesnt matter - I'll treat us all'. While we were out I could not have been nicer to GBs if I tried - let him sit where he wanted etc - talked to him,joked with him asked him if he wanted my bread and butter and mushy peas which he did. I paid the bill in front of him so he knows I paid for all. When we crashed I shouted at him to get back in car - he got out on roadside !! 'to have a look' ( he has an extreme FOMO complex ) as another car could well have skidded into him.
I even said afterwards to all 3 of us - after DH said sorry about my car (bless him!) - 'it's ok - as long as we're all ok thats the main thing - my cars only a lump of metal'.

So - am in bed (must get up btw ! - loads to do) - DH has gone to work and am just reflecting on my benevolence and concern and effort towards GB last night and what it has cost me. My lovely car is sat in the garage with a good few hundred pounds worth at least of damage. I paid £20 for our meal - including £7 for my SSs who gives me £80 keep a calendar month (so about £17-£18 per week). I gave up on a lovely sit down Indian meal with just my DH - which we would have walked to btw - because DH is always bringing up - 'we will have to take GBs out for tea with us next time' - every single time. So even though I do not agree that we should have to include a 23yr old and feel bad for leaving him out when we go out for a meal for two as a married couple ffs because its the only fucking time we get to be alone and away from him because he lives with us - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarggggggggggghhhhh - and the digs money he gives us in no way runs to buying him meals out aswell - but I thought - No , on this occasion I will just bend over backwards and make a really big effort to please everybody and just give give give - whatever my thoughts on it all - it will make my DH happy to play happy families and include his 'little' boy.

I have not even had a thank you for my tea - Suda - or any concern or sympathy about the damage to my car his lordship was transported door to door in. No - walked in his room closed door - didnt even look back at me as I followed him into house.

Why do I bother ? Why didnt I just specify an Indian meal when given the choice then I could have had a nice walk to the restaurant, nice meal just me and DH, my car would be in the garage perfectly intact instead of awaiting hundreds of pounds of repairs.

Tell you what - its official - wont happen again.

Why cant DH see that the fact his son lives with us 24/7 at the age of 23 right there in the middle of our marriage is all the more reason to not invite out to meals with us. My DH sees the fact he lives with us as more reason to invite him/not leave him out.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

Any male perspectives about out there at moment - cos tell you what fellas - lost me totally

BTW - sorry GB is Golden Bollocks - my SS - I'm sorry I skip between GB and GC Golden Child - must make it even more complicated than it is to read already !!!

Also Suda is my usual name - this is my xmas name.

suda just read your post about last night's incident. I can totally see your point about why DSS doesn't need to be invited out with the 2 of your constantly. It's like there are 3 people are in your marriage. I struggle to understand why a 23yo would want to go out with his parents when he lives with them 24/7 (but then I think of my 15yo DSS and I can see the future )

Just sending you my understanding. You must quite understandably feeling very at his lack of appreciation

Bah/suda - for what its worth, you did a nice thing for the GC and maybe, maybe one day he will reflect back on your step parenting and feel a little humble.
I get the idea that your DH just likes having his son around. My uncle is a bit like this - he has 2 sons, one used to be his apprentice (but works elsewhere now) and the other lives in a sort of extention/annexe to his house with his girlfriend and their kids. Whenever I see my uncle he nearly always has at least one of his adult sons with him! My DP finds this a bit weird.
I think the territorial adolescent male thing has a lot to do with my DSS's situation at the moment, his Mums new partner is very alpha male, whereas his Dad is a pretty laid back beta type (he cooks, does childcare etc) so its a very different situation at each house. Saying that I think Mums new partner is trying to get along with him, but I suspect he just doesn't know how to.