Do Scottish fans really not support England?

[HouseofHills]

There’s always a running joke about Scottish fans wanting anyone but England to win and supporting which ever team England is playing against. I totally get the friendly rivalry but is it actually true that most Scottish fans want England to lose in the Euros final or do most want England to win deep down given Scotland is out?

If England aren’t playing I think most England fans would support Scotland or Wales as fellow Brits, especially in a Euro or World Cup final!

fair enough @nietzscheanvibe
they do live with me in england

Not sure you smirking at someone confirming their nationality says what you think it does about yourself.

Exactly, Small-minded, wouldn't you say?

Succinct and perceptive 👏👏👏

Yes, the media bias may not be as evident (or annoying) to a Scot living in England - I would expect German commentators to be raving about Germany in their games, but it wouldn't bother me if I lived in Germany.

The English / Scottish / British thing is an interesting one for me.

In Australia booking a trip with two Scottish pals I'd met while travelling. They both wrote 'Scottish' on their forms and looked at me, laughing and saying "She will write British; they always do"
I wrote British, looked at them and said "Yes, because I'm half Welsh, half English" It did piss me off, as it very much seemed like an assumption.

We all complain about assumptions and stereotypes, but to an extent we are mostly all guilty of this I guess.

Anyway, years later and we are all still friends on Facebook. There was a lot of negative posts around the referendum from the same people who wanted nowt to do with the English etc. I found that quite difficult to read. I tried to talk to them about it, but I wouldn't understand was the reply I got.

Im not sure anyone can win in these situations.

I do understand why thes sentiments run deep. I just find it so sad. I'm Autistic, so perhaps I struggle more with maybe taking something as a personal affront.

Historically, the English appear to have gotten up everyone's noses is what I'm hearing, and there doesn't seem to be much that the English can do about that. What tends to happen is people give up trying to understand or change their attitudes as its either not within their gift individually, or feel it wouldn't be reciprocated anyway.

The thing is @RainbowZebraWarrior - it’s “all just banter” until it isn’t. How do we know when it crosses the line into something more hateful and sinister?

That can be said of absolutely ANY banter.

Indeed, but this thread is about widely expressed Scottish attitudes towards the English.

This thread is about football not Spas or population attitudes (and believe me the attitude towards Scot’s in England is often awful- speaking from an 80s childhood and 2000s adult experience)

Let’s break down what football is.

Two teams play a game that only one can win.

Traditionally each team has its own dedicated supporters.

Supporters are loyal to their team, it’s part of the dynamic of the entire game.

This loyalty is traditionally (but not exclusively) passed from parent to child.

This loyalty is generally (again not exclusively) based on proximity to said team.

If we consider local football, we have the old firm rivalry in Glasgow. Very few Celtic supporters will support Rangers if Celtic are no longer involved in a tournament. The same can be said of Liverpool and Everton or Manchester Utd &City. This has been the way in football forever. It’s called sporting rivalry and nobody has issues with team A supporters not supporting team B.

Why is it different when Scotland supporters don’t change allegiance to support England? Why do we expect this change in support at country level when we don’t at local level?

Why do the English expect everyone to support their country team anyway? Maybe it’s the expectation that puts people off rather than the team itself? That’s what I’m seeing on this thread and in real life.

This thread is about football.

It's also about the root cause of those attitudes @ToadOfTheThreads, that is, the widely expressed attitudes of the English (through a biased media, and other opinions expressed on this thread) towards the Scottish.

That bias is more serious than "banter", but I personally (I can't speak for the eejits and nutters, but I accept they exist) don't wish any actual harm to any English person if their team wins today, I just think the subsequent coverage will be so insufferable (for us) that I may have to switch my TV off FOREVER. Hence why I'd rather they DIDN'T win.

As an English person who loves football, wants England to win tonight and is upset by the some of the anti-English sentiments on this thread, I too am finding the media coverage insufferable and have turned the radio and TV off, and there are still 8 hours to go before the game!

Would just add that, while I get the notion that some English people may say they are British because they see Englishness as the "default" for Britishness, I'd suggest that I am one of many who say it not for this reason but because we're proud of what Britain has achieved and represents to the world as a single, united country (recognising that there are some negative aspects too, but in these we are also mostly bound together).

I mean, Scottish people could claim to be upset at anti-Scottish sentiment on this thread too.

I can happily say that the reason I rarely watch live TV and / or the news, is because fucking everything is done to death these days. Election, sport, celebrity tittle tattle. Its relentless.

I'm a football fan, and I cba with the build up / aftermath / dissecting every kick aspect of it all, so completely appreciate why it would get on everyone else's tits. The media do us no favours whatsoever.

Memes like this one going round are a bit sad though. "Everyone supporting Spain tonight" with an underlying element of "because we all fucking hate the English"

I can't imagine seeing anything like this with another country other than perhaps somewhere like Russia.

Fair point - as a supporter of the union I don't think the heavy stuff (as opposed to a bit of football rivalry) is great either way round.

There's a guy in Shetland supporting England too....does that make your map look any better?
In all honesty Spain have played better and had more challenging matches, hence they're getting a lot of support.

I'm a supporter of independence, however also a supporter of good relationships between Scotland and all her neighbours and trading partners.

I'd suggest that I am one of many who say it not for this reason but because we're proud of what Britain has achieved and represents to the world as a single, united country (recognising that there are some negative aspects too, but in these we are also mostly bound together).

I think this is also one of the reasons why many people in other countries within the UK do not identify with being British over their home country. We are not all voluntarily bound together. Just look at Brexit. Scotland and NI voted to remain. But they were still dragged out of Europe, and NI in particular has really suffered because of that. I'd say it natural to not feel particularly united with England and Britishness when your wishes as a country are controlled by others. I mean, part of the reason for leaving the EU was because the UK didn't like being controlled by the EU...

I also think feeling proud of what Britain and achieved and represents to the world is quite telling. Like in other countries, education and the media control the narrative and people tend to assume that what they see is what other people see too.

Lets be totally honest here. If Spain had played crap, everyone would be supporting them cos 'underdogs'

And that's fine. It's been an interesting thread.

I'm off to bed now as I'm feeling like shite. I'm sure someone will let me know later if England win 😉

America loves you though!

Some replies on here and the criticisms of what have written, justify my opinion. It’s not just about football, it’s about identity and that’s fine but I don’t see the need to want another team to lose and to be happy about it

Anyone who supports any team naturally wants the opposing team to lose. I've been supporting 🇪🇦 from the start along with 🇩🇪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿.

That's what people have been saying from the start. You just refused to read the thread and instead went with the lazy narrative that they must be jealous of England and suffering from small man syndrome. 🙃

I am a Scot living in England, I have many lovely friends who all would keel over if I supported England in anything.

I wonder why there is always an expectation that we should support England? It makes no sense to me. I probably won't watch, but if I did I'd be wishing Spain all the best.

This thread is hilarious though, especially the poster who is too afraid to visit Scotland or Wales in case somebody spits in her tea.

Also very funny because the OP asked a question, dozens of people answered and then the OP and a bunch of others refuse to listen to the reasons given.

Mumsnet at its finest it would seem😂

That’s nothing to be proud of though, it’s just creating division. The English don’t generally care ime and wouldn’t have a strong desire for Scotland to lose, they simply wouldn’t care either way. I don’t think the hostility is the same the other way around.