Do Scottish fans really not support England?

[HouseofHills]

There’s always a running joke about Scottish fans wanting anyone but England to win and supporting which ever team England is playing against. I totally get the friendly rivalry but is it actually true that most Scottish fans want England to lose in the Euros final or do most want England to win deep down given Scotland is out?

If England aren’t playing I think most England fans would support Scotland or Wales as fellow Brits, especially in a Euro or World Cup final!

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They’re good enough to get in the final, so pretty good then ?
Scotland are memorable for being thrashed on the pitch."

England haven't played well this tournament. And that's not me as as a Scot saying that. The English media were not exactly complimentary about the English performance in the group stages. They have been very lucky. The saying goes you can beat a good team but can't beat a lucky one.

The game against Slovakia - I didn't see the first half. But England were awful in that second half - and were very lucky only to be down 1-0. A great team on paper, but that was not a good performance at all.

And that game really highlights the issue with the media and commentators. The commentators were brutal in that game. Not a good thing to say about Southgate or the players. Until the dying seconds of normal time game then Southgate deserves a medal. The media love to build up a team/or an individual sports star then delight on tearing them down. It's really not a pleasant thing.

"wtfissummer
Jealousy?

Oh come on

Why else would people detest England winning?"

It really isn't jealousy.

And generally it's not about the actual team either. The media however are the most mentioned thing when football is brought up where I am.

My DH and I are both English. I couldn't care less who wins. My DH, an avid fan of world football, wants Spain to win as he watches La Liga on TV and likes the way the Spanish team play.

It’s like small man syndrome imo. I used to work in a health spa and had to ask customers for their nationality and 90% of Scott’s would write Scottish as oppose to British and the opposite was true the other way around. The English would write Britsh 99% of the time. The only people that would write English came across as naive and didn’t know what to write. I used to have a little smirk when I’d hear the Scottish accent and I’d know there write ‘Scottish’.

It makes no odds to me but in my experience there is a divide and an intolerance far more one way than the other. My DH who is Scottish says it’s ridiculous the way some people carry on regarding football and the fact they’d rather see England lose. He gets embarrassed by them.

I don't understand this. How is having a strong sense of identity an example of "small man syndrome"? The UK is made up of four countries. Surely it's normal to identify with your country first and then with Britain (if at all)?

The point is the vast majority of English identity as British first and foremost when asked their nationality

"work in a health spa and had to ask customers for their nationality and 90% of Scott’s would write Scottish as oppose to British and the opposite was true the other way around. The English would write Britsh 99% of the time. The only people that would write English came across as naive and didn’t know what to write. I used to have a little smirk when I’d hear the Scottish accent and I’d know there write ‘Scottish’.

It makes no odds to me but in my experience there is a divide and an intolerance far more one way than the other. My DH who is Scottish says it’s ridiculous the way some people carry on regarding football and the fact they’d rather see England lose. He gets embarrassed by them."

But why do you see someone with a national identity as "small man syndrome"? I am Scottish as well as British. And I would expect an English person to say they were English - they are. There is nothing wrong with that.

Not sure you smirking at someone confirming their nationality says what you think it does about yourself.

Is that not because people generally feel like British and English is the same thing? It's not like that for the other countries in the UK. They don't feel "British" in the way the English do. When people talk about British accents, or how the British love tea, or British weather, or Brits abroad etc, they're talking about England and the English. So of course the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish don't feel connected to "British" as an identity. The English are probably fine with identifying as British first because to them Britishness is Englishness.

Because we’re talking specifically about football on this thread and whether Scottish fans really don’t support England in the football.

I don’t like football and couldn’t care who wins but in my experience as someoen who lives in Scotland with my kids etc and who has a Scottish DH and Scottish friends etc I do think some Scotts would rather England lose by virtue of being English and nothing more. It’s my DH that pointed this out to me and even those that I’m close to and forget Im actually English openly say ‘I hope they lose’ then they’re like ‘I’m soo sorry Emma bla bla’ and I don’t care as they are lovely people but there is definitely a divide in sports particularly football.

That’s my experience.

Yes I don’t disagree with that at all. What you’re saying is bang on

But it's not actually about football. That divide exists outside of sport. But for some reason some English people only seem to care about it when it comes to football.

I think the total lack of understanding and obliviousness to the political and historical context demonstrated by many on this thread is exactly why Scottish people may be less than supportive of an English team.

But if Scotland beat England (since we're talking miracles), the media mood would be funereal.

@ClickClack300 you openly admitted that you smirked if someone went to your work and identified themselves on a form as Scottish. That's not about football. And says a lot about you.

Be proud of your heritage- that's ok. I'm Scottish as well as British. If someone asked me where I was from I would say Scotland. That certainly doesn't make me have "little man syndrome". Its where I'm from and part of my identity.

And with regards to football - other peoples opinions are valid - not just your dh. This thread is full of reasons as to why some feel the way they do.

And your view that describing yourself as Scottish means you have "little man syndrome" is certainly part of that.

Banter of course. Seems quite a few on this thread don’t get banter.

Brit and English are synonymous abroad. Even highly-educated people often do not understand that the British Empire, for example, was not England. There was a cringe-inducing comment on MN once from a foreign-born woman now living in Scotland defending Scots by saying they are the only people she's met who are sensitive enough to not bring up the British Empire with the English lol. This is pretty common misunderstanding IME. Sorry if this sounds off topic, I'm responding to someone a many pages back, I can't find them.

Jeeze, the arrogance is astonishing! And you're all blind to it 🙄. You ask "Why else would people detest England winning?"; we tell you, and you put your hands over your ears and loudly go "lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, not listening" FFS!

So, yours is just another post which literally demonstrates your arrogance and proves our point!

Have you not read the thread?

I write Scottish because I am.
Suggesting 'small man syndrome' is imvolved just illustrates the point Scottish people are trying to make here.
Also, English people are free to call themselves English if they want to.

That's not the fault of the Scots, and further exemplifies the Britain=England point. 🫣

Congratulations on being Scottish 😀. Okay-doke, scratch the last sentence (though it seems to be how English people think also). But my question is valid. Why should I have to switch off my TV during a Germany v Switzerland game?

i can only speak for one Scottish person and they want England to win

Where it really matters- England already did win the Euros -2022!

That's ok, no harm, it's good that they're inured to the bias (sometimes overt, sometimes subtle) that we've described and shown to be factual on this thread. But most of us are irritated by it. It might be helpful to say why they're happy to support England and how, as a Scottish person, they deal with the bias (if they still live in Scotland, that is).

It doesn't only apply to football; the media bias, from where we sit in Scotland (and in Wales and N. Ireland, I suspect), permeates everything.

As to the point about Scots writing "Scottish" and English writing "British", this is yet another example of where English arrogance is evident - it doesn't apply to everyone perhaps, but for some (many) English people, the terms "British" and "English" mean exactly the same thing. So, British = English, and that, to us, who are also British (but who may see ourselves as "Scottish" first), is arrogant.

I could perhaps get behind a British team in, say, the Olympics, even though Scottish players would be few and far between. But don't expect us to cheer the English team, even though we're also British.

Anyway, if you can't even be bothered to read the thread and try to understand our viewpoints from the explanations we've given, then you'll never get it, and we'll continue going around in circles. So please, continue on your blinkered way.