F1 2024 thread 2

[Brazilianadventure]

Continuation thread

Part 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/sports/4980705-f1-2004-watchalong-thread?page=10&reply=136230297

Ah, thanks. I must have zoned out for that bit! What a brat Lando is. I find him very unlikeable.

McLaren bungled the race by pitting their drivers in the wrong order - they created a situation where neither driver was ever going to be happy. That's going to be a harsh lesson for them, I think.

Max showing how a period of losing often helps round drivers into nicer people. See Vettel and his early heights vs Vettel by the time he retired and had experienced a few years on the back foot. He needs to sit further down the pack for a while to see if that helps him. However, it's probably also worth remembering the upbringing he had and how bullying and aggressive his dad was to him, even if he 'only' came second. Psychologically, that's gotta make it hard to break away from the idea of anger being how to deal with losing. His Dad may have created a fast driver with that upbringing, but he sure as hell seems to have also created a poor human with little emotional coping skills.

Lewis was stroppy in the early years too - but has done a huge amount of mental work to cope with the psychology of the sport and this really pays off. He then has a mental strength to call on when needed. He's not perfect but he's light years mentally stronger than he used to be - and than Max, imo.

Lando needs to catch himself for risk of falling into that same ' believe the hype and struggle when it doesn't believe in you' minefield.

I used to like Lando and felt that when Lewis retires I would support him rather than George but he is becoming more and more unlikeable

Managed to watch the race but no internet to comment.

Lewis vs Max - Lewis is old enough and wise enough to not sweat the small stuff. Plus it’s a good example to use with the stewards about consistency in the future.

Max fights Lewis harder than anyone and Lewis usually makes sensible racing decisions. I do hope next years Ferrari allows him to fight at the front.

I am a bit hmm about McLaren. The team strategy was to blame and I think Lando would have won if Oscar had pitted first. Lando was far quicker in the last stint.

Spa will be interesting.

@MercedesLeftWheelNut I'm not sure Max will ever become a nicer person while he's still in RB. He had a few years of being the underdog to the Mercedes and that didn't make much difference.

I think getting out of the toxic culture of Red Bull is the best chance he's got to improve his character - if he could get some separation from his dad, and from people like Helmut Marko and Christian Horner, and if he wasn't in an environment where he's bigger than the team then it might eventually teach him some humility and he'd be the better for it.

Max's dad has a lot to answer for. No good being a successful driver but an unhappy angry person. I hope he moves teams and 'renews' himself, for want of a better word.

I like Lando, so I expect I'm biased, but I do think it's a lot to expect immediate graciousness once you've been told to give up your second GP win. He followed team orders, and I think clearly stayed out in front in the hope those orders would be changed, which isn't an unreasonable hope. But he said the right things about Piastri, and yeah snapped unnecessarily at Lewis, but he didn't storm out or kick up a fuss or, as David Coulthard was saying he should, ignore team orders.

I think Lando actually did a really good job of being gracious given the circumstances, it really only was that split second with Lewis that he was out of line and I'm sure Lewis of all people understands.

I find Lando much more likeable than Russell! Can't stand him at all.

Agree.

What Jos has put Max through, I think it's hard to argue that's been done out of love. It was essentially abuse (imo) that is overlooked because the result has ended up being someone talented and very rich. But the end does not justify the means for me.

@MercedesLeftWheelNut I agree wholeheartedly

Totally agree. I think Jos Verstappen is just a nasty bully who's got a much bigger platform than he deserves because his son is so successful.

The reality is that he was a mediocre driver - only two podiums in F1 (in the same car that Schumacher won the WDC in that year) and a thug who was arrested multiple times for assault and once for attempted murder, mostly against women he'd been in a relationship with.

I agree.

You can argue that Anthony Hamilton was a very firm/tough with Lewis but my god the difference. He did it with love and respect. The gracious way they both behaved in AD2021 was a testament to that.

I also think people forget that Max also inherited some of his racing skills from his Mum who was a very good at karting.

Agree with both of the points above. Max was clearly very frustrated at the weekend.

Also how Lando kept his cool. I'd have been tempted to park just before the finish line. I naively thought team orders had all but been abolished. McLaren did not cover themselves in glory.

You can argue that Anthony Hamilton was a very firm/tough with Lewis but my god the difference. He did it with love and respect. The gracious way they both behaved in AD2021 was a testament to that.

Absolutely - in fact my post originally started out with that observation, when then I took it out for brevity. But yes, there is a huge sense of love that comes across right through Lewis' family.

Lewis and his father were estranged for years. I doubt we know half that went on there. I doubt many children who were driven to that extent, at the sacrifice of their schooling and a normal life, have a normal healthy relationship with their parents.

My understanding was Lewis didn’t want Anthony to manage him any more. It was part of becoming an adult that meant Lewis had to forge his own way. A lot of sports people go through it when they become adults.

I don’t think many top sports people get there with what would be considered a normal upbringing. They have that undefinable drive that gets them to the top. For example Andy Murray lived in Spain so he could train.

Confirmed today that Esteban Occon has signed a multi year deal with Haas.

I hope he is happier there than with Alpine. Bearman and Occon will be a good matchup IMO, Olly did well in his brief stint at Ferrari and Esteban is a really underrated and experienced driver.

That leaves one Sauber seat, one Williams seat and the Mercedes seat still unknown. Which one will Sainz end up at I wonder.

www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/12433/13184366/formula-1-red-bulls-max-verstappen-set-for-10-place-grid-penalty-at-belgian-grand-prix-after-exceeding-engine-allowance

Hopefully it'll be a good race.

I think Sainz will go to Redbull, taking Checho's seat.

I'd like Max to go to Mercedes ideally but no clue who would go to Redbull then.

Sainz at Red Bull would be awesome.

Would be a bit sad to see him in a much lesser team.

James at Williams seems nice and I'm sure they'd be nice to Sainz and all but I agree about him not going to a lesser seat.

Max in Mercedes is a really bad fit I think.

Hard to picture him in any other team that doesn't have quite the brash nature of RB. Would be v interesting to watch that unfold!

I love Toto. I think Max needs a kind older male figure in his life.

Can hear it now: No Max, that is so not right!