F1 2024 thread 2

[Brazilianadventure]

Continuation thread

Part 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/sports/4980705-f1-2004-watchalong-thread?page=10&reply=136230297

That was some pretty sexy defensive driving 😎

But the penalty...

Bless, Lando being interviewed and has tears in his eyes.

The question is why did Max not get a penalty for the move to defend against Sainz?

So really, Max knows that by pulling that move, Lando is going to overtake him outside the line and then be penalised. Clever Max, makes me dislike him more though!

Oh it makes me love him more! To know the rules that well and apply them in the heat of the battle with a championship contender is very impressive to me. All part of defending, he essentially lured Lando into a mistake.

The stewards verdict is interesting. They penalised Lando for overtaking off track as he wasn't in front at at apex, but didn't count it as a strike for track limits as Max also going off meant he didn't have the chance to stay in. That's also why they applied the 5s penalty not the 10s for the overtake.

So if they hadn't penalised him for the overtake, he would've had a track penalties limit anyway.

McLaren really dropped the ball not advising him to give the place back.

It's always a shame when things are decided on penalties, hopefully they'll put gravel or grass in for next year. But given the tarmac and the rules as they are it all seems fair enough to me.

@DrunkTinkerbell40s Max has pulled that move so many times, he knew exactly what he was doing. Max is an intelligent driver, but he can let his emotions take over ( particularly when racing Lewis) and that is when he goes too far.

I always remember Seb Vettel being interviewed after a race at Spa, which he should have won. He came second to Lewis and he was visibly processing the move Lewis made at Eau Rouge to keep the lead. What Lewis did was slow down slightly to draw Seb nearer and in doing so took the clean air from him. That meant Seb couldn’t get the sling shot along the Kemmel Straight. That was a genius move from Lewis and it out foxed Seb.

DH just made a good point - Max must've turned down Mercedes given Toto is back to slagging him off. 😂

Yay! It's race week again!!!

And the fact that Max doesn't have race paces makes it even more exciting for a decent race!!

Who thinks Colapinto will get the remaining Sauber seat?

I think alongside Nico it would be a good mix of experience and reliability vs raw talent.

Yuki said how much he learnt from DR. I think Nico would be a good mentor.

Colapinto has been a revelation hasn't he. I'd never heard of him until he got the Williams drive. Certainly earned another go (not that that always means much!).

I think Colapinto has done a grand job. He was always pretty consistent in F2. He would be a safe choice for Sauber alongside Hulk, but... that means Bottas is without a seat next year. I think Bottas still has a few years of driving in F1 left in him, but with that terrible Sauber it's hard for him to show that. It's always a tough choice between wanting to see the new drivers get a shot and losing the experienced drivers that are fan favourites.

One thing about Colapinto though, his fans are very very ardent. You will see that on social media, and not in a good way. Not his fault at all, but there has already been some shite directed at Alex Albon by them.

This is an interesting comparison. Max vs Carlos and Max vs Lando.

Sainz did exactly what Norris should've done - hung back and then challenged again. He didn't get penalised because he didn't pass. You can see it in the video here, starts just before the 1 minute mark. (Sainz was passing on the inside and Norris on the outside, but I think it's the not keeping the position that was key.)

The video doesn’t work.

The point is Sainz went up the inside of Max. Sainz was ahead, just, at the apex but Max retained his place by going off track just like Lando. In commentary Martin Brundle immediately said Max should give the place to Sainz.

I agree Sainz then did what Lando should have done.

I know it’s probably really nuanced, what I need is Ant Davidson to explain it frame by frame. 😂 As I can’t see why Max kept the place going off track and didn’t get a penalty.

The video should work if you follow the link to YouTube, it's from the official account so they don't allow it to be embedded.

I think in both cases it was viewed that the driver on the inside didn't leave the driver on the outside much choice but to go on the run off, so the driver on the outside wasn't penalised (it didn't count as a track limits strike for Lando). Plus with the Sainz move it was lap 1 which is already treated a little more leniently.

But Lando got a 5 second penalty for gaining an advantage. Max also gained an advantage, so it does seem inconsistent.

I think you are probably right that it was the first lap.

Max didn't really have the option to stay on the track (the stewards acknowledged Lando didn't either). Sainz wasn't allowed take the position obviously, he would've been penalised if he did. So obviously Max stayed in front.

Very happy Ferrari fan over here.

Re the Norris penalty - it's because he actively overtook off the track. Max debatably could have been penalised but that doesn't negate what Norris did

I get why Lando got the penalty and not Max in that incident.

Its the lap 1 turn 12 incident between Sainz and Max.

Sainz was on the inside just ahead of Max at the apex. Sainz drove wide exactly like Max, Max then drove off track just like Lando and kept the place. No penalty? I get that Sainz was overtaking Max but still Max only kept the place because he drove off the track.

It feels like Max wins which ever way he defends, either pushing the other car wide or taking a really wide line off track. His defence is superb but it’s consistent application of the rules I question. The lap one leniency does explain the difference.

I agree Sainz is more tactical than Lando and slotted behind to take advantage and then made the overtake.

Where Max is ahead at the apex and can either move wide, or take Sainz out of the race?

Lap 1 incidents are also almost always classified as racing incidents.

Max was on the outside and Sainz was on the inside.

Okay? It doesn't negate the fact that Max has the choice to either run wide or take Sainz out of the race, and that he was ahead at the apex, plus the lap one leniency.

I find the hatred of Max really boring to be honest. Sky sports started an agenda against him in 2021 because they didn't like that Lewis was being challenged and that has continued now he's gone up against Lando. The British bias from them is awful and Max will always be painted as a villain.

It’s not hatred of Max, it’s understanding why the two incidents were treated differently by the stewards.

I appreciate Max’s skill and have said that.

One was a lap one incident where Max was ahead at the apex and so already had the advantage.

One was a lap 51 incident where Lando was not ahead at the apex and so gained a lasting advantage. Lando has even said himself he should've given the place back and attacked him again.

I don't think Max was really under consideration in the lap one incident. In both incidents it was viewed that the driver on the inside forced the driver on the outside off.

Sainz couldn't take the position because he would have achieved it by going off and forcing another driver off.

So of course Max kept the position, it's not that he kept it by going off, it's that Carlos didn't win it cleanly. One of them had to take it, they couldn't both lose it!

And yes, as a non Brit I do think Max gets a really hard time in the British media and on here as well as social media.