DLA wait times 76

[HeartyGuide]

New Thread as previously one nearly full.

@flawlessflipper They don't do IQ tests as standard on children so DLA don't require one for the SMI route.

I'm not sure if you realise what you've just wrote but you've just said " you dont need to evidence that a child has a learning difficulty" and then stated " by showing they have difficulty applying their intelligence in the real world"

That's the same thing just worded differently 😂

You have to evidence the child's learning difficulties not just the child's learning disability " which is apparent through diagnosis" its the difficulties the child faces that need evidencing.

I tagged you based on the conversation you and the other lady was having you don't need to be rude by stating you are not sure why I've tagged you in the rest of the post 🤔

This is a positive public platform for everyone to help and support each other and give advise and input..
But seems you already know everything I won't tag you again.

I gave my advise based on facts and what the DMs need to give an award and I know this as i work for HMRC and i oversea the DLA decision makers and health care professionals in my role, my children's father is also a DM for the DWP 🙂

I didn’t say they tested IQ as standard. I said it can and sometimes is tested. You said “they don't do these [IQ tests] on children”. That isn’t correct because they can and do. Not all children, no, but some. I was pointing that out.

It isn’t the same thing worded different. For some, many, it will be the same thing. But for some it isn’t. For some, you can prove “severe impairment of intelligence and social functioning” even when they don’t have learning difficulties.

You don’t need a learning disability diagnosis at all. Other diagnoses can prove a state of arrested development, or incomplete physical development of the brain. So, no, a learning disability isn’t always evidenced by diagnosis.

It isn’t rude to state I am are not sure why you tagged me in the rest of the post when I’m not sure why you did! I’m not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the conversation I was having. That isn’t rude.

Thankyou ! In my MR I've put it as my first point and that there is potential of evidence being mixed up , as they quoted there was medical evidence for his hip and heart condition but not that I had sent evidence for the use of a pushchair in all circumstances something along them lines I shall call on Monday and also ask for the request. X

@flawlessflipper I'm not sure what you're mad about or why you're twisting things to make it sound like you're saying something that proves some kind of point.

You do need a diagnosis of a learning disability to get HRM through smi..
You need a diagnosis that proves an arrested or incomplete brain development ie autism, ADD, cerebral palsy, genetic conditions, incomplete brain development during developing fetus or after birth, all of the above as a diagnosis evidence a learning disability which manifests itself as intellectual disability, developmental delays, difficulties with social functioning and cognitive skills, severe behavioural issues all of which are learning disabilities they are the symptoms of a child with arrested development of the brain.. There isn't a child on this planet who has a diagnosis of a condition which affected the development of the brain that doesn't have a learning disability so yes it's evidenced by diagnosis and because DLA isn't awarded based on diagnosis of conditions it's awarded based on the care and mobility needs of the child the learning disabilities of the child need to be evidenced and explained and the care and mobility needs need to be evidenced and explained.. Extreme behavioural problems are a learning disability and symptom of a child with autism and add..
Impairment of social functioning and intelligence of child with autism is the symptoms of the condition and these are classed as the learning disabilities of the child..

Arrested development of the brain is only the diagnosis the daily functioning of the child and the severity of them and what the child can and can't do are the learning disabilities of the child and it's the learning disabilities of the child that make up the spectrum so yes diagnosis does evidence learning difficulties they are byproduct symptoms and it's how the DMs award rates in the DM guide.

So it will say does the child have a diagnosis of autism what are the learning disabilities and difficulties and daily functioning needs and mobility needs the child faces...

As I've said learning difficulties and learning disabilities are the byproduct symptoms of an autistic child in the DM guide.

Some children only have 3 of the by products some children have 6 and some children have all of them which is how they come to the conclusion of severe mental impairment.

My comments are about DLA and the DM guides not doctors or professions or assessments of children.

@Abwill you've done the right thing with the MR but you shouldn't have to wait the wait times for your MR tell them to send it back to the DM because of the clerical admin errors and the wrong child's name.. Tell them you want the DM to correct the errors and look at the claim again ASAP.. Elevate it to a manager if the call handler tries to fobb you off 🫶

I am not mad or twisting anything.

You don’t need a learning disability diagnosis. A learning disability is a specific medical diagnosis. Explained more on the NICE website here.

Yes ASD, ADHD, CP, genetic conditions, etc. can fulfil the state of arrested development, or incomplete physical development of the brain element, but those diagnoses don’t always mean someone has a learning disability. Some with these diagnoses will also have a learning disability but not all.

Not all children who have a diagnosis of a condition which affects the development of the brain has a learning disability. And not all who display VCB have a learning disability. I have a child with both who does not have a learning disability. In fact he is very intelligent - if you scroll to the bottom of the NICE page you will see LD is usually defined as an IQ below 70 - split into mild, moderate, severe or PMLD. I know others too and have come across many others.

Has anyone been awarded 18 months length? I haven’t heard of that.

@Sweetappley I have. I have seen awards for 12 months, too.

@PositivityRipples @flawlessflipper @Abwill

We are all on here to support one another and everyone is entitled to their views.
Unfortunately the DWP have to follow the legislation and the guidance they are given, they are not medically trained and DLA is about the care a child requires above that of a normal child.
Here is a link to The Social Security Disability Living Allowance Regulations 1991 ( there may have been some changes). The section regarding mobility is; Part IV or section 11 and 12.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1991/2890/made
I hope you find this useful.
The wait times are horrendous but there are only so many staff to deal with the huge volume of cases they have received.
Practically all benefits are dealt with in date order, ( terminal illness jumps the queue)it's the easiest and fairest way to process the claims.
Some areas are quicker than others and it is frustrating that some claims get processed before others, or appears so.
The people who answer the phones are just there to answer the phones, some of these people will have no knowledge of the claim process and will try to let people know as much as they can, given the current situation.

Nothing I have posted contradicts the legislation and case law, and I haven’t said decisions are not based on that.

@flawlessflipper @PositivityRipples Thank you both, you have been super helpful, I know there is abit of back and forth between you both but you both show great understanding of HRM. I believe I have provided enough evidence under the smi test rule to meet everything you have said, the only thing that she doesn’t currently get is HRC. When she was first awarded she hadn’t been seen by anyone so she didn’t have a diagnosis or any evidence at that time but now I have all the supporting evidence and diagnosis to hopefully be able to get HRC and HRM for her. I am abit confused by your conversation about the learning disability part? She does have reports that show she is significantly behind her peers and the SOG that shows how far behind she is compared to a child her age but she doesn’t have anything like a diagnosis saying she has a learning disability just the autism diagnosis. She is nearly 5 and due to start school soon so maybe that may come in the future? Although she meets the criteria for smi, they may even decide she qualifies under the vuw rule because she doesn’t walk far before showing distressing behaviour.

@Curlycookie5 a learning disability diagnosis and an autism diagnosis are 2 separate things. Some will have the former. Some the latter. Some both. (And obviously some people neither but they are relevant to the point.) You don’t need both to meet the SMI criteria.

A learning disability is a specific diagnosis. See the NICE link I posted in a pp. Also see this Mencap page. Mencap is the leading learning disability charity in this country.

Specifically:
“A learning disability is a reduced intellectual ability” - not all with ASD have a reduced intellectual ability, so not all can be diagnosed with a learning disability.

“People with a learning disability may also have a learning difficulty (such as dyslexia) or be neurodivergent (such as having ADHD or being autistic).” - this shows ASD itself isn’t a learning disability but some may also have a learning disability as well.

“Some people also confuse neurodevelopment and neurological conditions like ADHD with a learning difficulty or a learning disability, but they are not the same.” - confirming they are not the same thing.

This is using the British terminology. America’s terminology differs and they often use intellectual disability to mean what is called a learning disability in the UK.

i thought it was an odd length? Especially after an MR and for age 13.

It isn’t very common, but it can happen. In the cases I have seen it is usually for specific reasons, e.g. an imminent surgery that could result in needs changing significantly (for better or worse) or the upcoming transition to PIP.

I don't need to read the NICE website..

We are talking about DLA claims.
And the DM guides.

If your child has autism but doesn't have any learning disabilities or learning difficulties then you wouldn't be claiming DLA for them would you as they would have no needs.

Learning disabilities and learning difficulties only need a seperate diagnosis if the child doesn't already have a condition of arrested development of the brain.

If the child already has a diagnosis of arrested development of the brain ie autism, ADD, then the learning difficulties and learning disabilities are symptoms of the diagnosed condition they are by products.

They assess a child for autism based on symptoms and learning difficulties and learning disabilities, behaviour, developmental delays, cognitive skills, emotion regulation difficulties and so forth and so on

Then Once diagnosed or suspected of the condition.

you're now claiming DLA as the child has the condition or is suspected of having it, which means they have symptoms of the above categories so they have by product learning disabilities and learning difficulties

DLA is awarded based on symptoms and care and mobility needs

DLA categorise all symptoms of the condition into a learning disabilities or learning difficulties.

Example.

Can the child brush it's own teeth yes or no.

If the answer is no they categorise that into a disability

If the answer is yes but the child needs prompting to brush it's teeth they categorise that into a difficulty.

They do a this for every question.

Learning difficulty
Learning disability

The child who's most answers are difficulties based on the time it takes the parent can only be awarded low or middle

The child who's most answers are disabilities and based on time it takes the parent can only be awarded middle or high.

The same applies for mobility

If the child has learning disabilities in all categories for impairment of social functioning, impairment of intelligence, severe behaviour issues, the need for restraint, the need for constant supervision the child meets criteria for SMI because they are learning disabilities in all areas for arrested development of the brain.

Severe behaviour issues as a result of autism is a learning disability in this area
Impairment of social functioning as a result of autism is a learning disability in this area
Impairment of intelligence as a result of autism is a learning disability in this area.

Because of the diagnosis of autism which is arrested development of the brain and the byproduct symptoms above which are learning disabilities in all areas the SMI criteria would be reached.

As I've already stated I'm explaining the DM guide and how the DMs and DLA health care professionals have to follow and categorise symptoms into learning disabilities and learning difficulties when assessing rates for mobility and care. I'm not stating that it's the same for doctors or NICE or anything else you're saying.

I linked to the NICE guidelines, which include a definition from the ICD-11, because you are confused about the definition of a learning disability. A learning disability is a specific medical diagnosis regardless of what DWP want to believe.

A child can have ASD and require more care than a typical peer the same age but not have learning difficulties (or a learning disability).

Learning disabilities and learning difficulties only need a seperate diagnosis if the child doesn't already have a condition of arrested development of the brain.

I haven’t said otherwise for claiming DLA. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I was pointing out the two diagnoses aren’t the same thing and someone doesn’t automatically have a learning disability because of an ASD, etc. diagnosis. That is true.

i See, well pip is another 3 years yet and there’s nothing to suggest needs changing imminently. I don’t understand it.

So when you've stated here

Specifically:
“A learning disability is a reduced intellectual ability” - not all with ASD have a reduced intellectual ability, so not all can be diagnosed with a learning disability

Yes not all ASD children have a reduced intellectual ability which is why not all ASD children qualify for HRM under Smi

But the ASD children who do have a reduced intellectual ability meet the criteria for" impairment of intelligence "therefore qualify for HRM smi route,
They don't need a seperate diagnosis for this specific learning disability because the learning disability is already diagnosed as a byproduct of autism as its a spectrum.

Understand?

I did not say all children with ASD are eligible for HRM, under the SMI criteria or otherwise.

Although, some without a reduced intellectual ability (i.e. no learning disability) are entitled to HRM under the SMI criteria. Case law shows this.

But the ASD children who do have a refused intellectual ability meet the criteria for" impairment of intelligence "therefore qualify for HRM smi route,
They don't need a seperate diagnosis for this specific learning disability

Again, I haven’t said otherwise. In fact, I specifically said they did not need both diagnoses. Again, I was pointing out a learning disability diagnosis and an ASD diagnosis are not the same thing and someone doesn’t automatically have a learning disability because of an ASD, etc. diagnosis. Some don’t have a LD at all despite being autistic.

@flawlessflipper I'm confused as to what you're debating about? And you are saying to me and others you didn't say this and you didn't say that but I'm directly responding to what you are saying.

You just stated :
"Although, some without a reduced intellectual ability (i.e. no learning disability) are entitled to HRM under the SMI criteria. Case law shows this"

This is incorrect the child needs to meet the criteria for impairment of intelligence..

The evidence needs to show that the child is on the severe end of the autistic spectrum and a by product symptom of the diagnosis of autism includes the impairment of intelligence ie " reduced intellectual ability" professional evidence would need to show the child has this symptom and describe how and why the child's intelligence is impaired.

The DM categorise this as a learning disability because that's exactly what it is by definition, it doesn't need a doctor or neurodevelopmental services or camhs or the EP to state this child has a learning disability diagnosed because it's already defined as a symptom of that specific child's autistic needs on the severe end of the spectrum and care and mobility needs and real world situations that describe the child's impairment of intelligence.

An ASD diagnosis and a learning disability diagnosis is exactly the same thing if that child was assessed and diagnosed as on the severe end of the spectrum as a result of impaired intelligence impaired social functioning severe behavioural problems, physical violence, inability to regulate emotions and all these things are coming from the physical cause of arrested development of the brain due to autism then yes it's the same thing.

If the child doesn't have autism but has a reduced intelligence only then that child would have a diagnosis of a learniiingg disability as a single seperate diagnosis.

We are talking about smi criteria under this criteria the child only needs a diagnosis of autism and explanations from professionals of where the child sits on the spectrum and if where the child sits on the spectrum the child has the by product symptom of impaired intelligence they would meet the criteria as they have the learning disability impaired intelligence as part of their autism.

So I'm not sure why you're trying to seperate the two as not the same thing.. And sending copy and pasted Google and NICE links
They are the same thing under a severely mentally impaired child entitled to HRM.

You may be responding to my posts but you obviously aren’t comprehending them correctly if you think I have posted someone needs a diagnosis of ASD and a LD. Please quote exactly where I said someone needs both diagnoses? You will struggle because I have not.

You just stated :
"Although, some without a reduced intellectual ability (i.e. no learning disability) are entitled to HRM under the SMI criteria. Case law shows this"

Yes, I did say that. And yes it is correct. As I said, it is possible to prove an impairment of intelligence without having a low IQ/learning disability/reduced intellectual ability (or having a learning disability/low IQ/reduced intellectual ability but having an IQ over 55. Or not knowing the IQ). The Contact webpage I linked to in a pp covers the point.

““Severe impairment of intelligence” is generally an IQ of 55 or less. But this is not the only measure of impaired intelligence. If a child’s IQ is above 55, or they have not had an IQ test, the decision-maker at the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) must consider other evidence.
For example, children who have autism spectrum disorders may do well in intelligence tests, but find it very difficult to use their intelligence in everyday situations, such as using the road safely. So even if a child has an IQ of more than 55, it may still be possible to show that they have a severe impairment of intelligence if you can establish that they have difficulty applying their intelligence in the real world or have no sense of danger.”

An ASD diagnosis and a learning disability diagnosis is not the same thing. See the Mencap link. One may have both, but they are not the same thing. They can both meet the SMI criteria but they are not one and the same thing. I have provided reputable links to evidence what I have been posting.

You are posting links to NICE and copy and pasting Google and talking about Mencap..

We are talking about DLA and the guides and legislation..
We've already spoke about IQ you don't need to prove or evidence the child's IQ the secretary of state is already in thee knowledge this isn't tested on most children..
The only thing you need is a diagnosis of one of the conditions that prove arrested development of the brain and then professional evidence that states and points towards the child being on the severe end of the spectrum and evidence that in real world situations the child exhibits extreme behavioural issues extreme disruptions extreme physical violence the need for restrict the need for constant supervision and examples of impaired intelligence and social functioning the way the guide and legislation works is the DM will follow the guide that the child has a severe mental impairment a diagnosis condition and a learning disability across all areas ( doesn't Need a seperate diagnosis) they are the same things under severe mental impairment criteria..
The DM follows it's guide for learning disability being the cause of the impairment of intelligence as a byproduct of autism at the severe end of the spectrum...

All that needs evidencing for the DM is real world situations as describers..

I'm telling you the DM categorise an autistic child with impaired intelligence and social functioning as a child with a learning disability as a symptom of autism. No seperate diagnosis needed as they are the same thing in the DWP healthcare professional guides.

As I've said I'm only commenting about DLA not all the other links you're posting and tagging me in..

I will say again I work for HMRC I oversea the DWP in my role mainly DLA and PIP I work in the bridge between DLA and the secretary of state.. The DMs don't even work for DWP they work for the secretary of state.. I literally oversea the bridge and I'm not trying to sound rude or obnoxious because that's far from who I am but who did you say you work for EHCP? Do you mean you work for your local council? Sorry I missed exactly who you said you work for?

I have provided links to reputable sites to evidence what I am posting, yes.

The link to the page from Contact, an extremely well regarded national charity, is specifically about DLA.

I provided the link to Mencap and NICE to show the definition of learning disability. A learning disability is a specific diagnosis regardless of what DWP want to believe.

An ASD diagnosis and a learning disability diagnosis are not the same thing. They can both fulfil that part of the test under severe mental impairment criteria, but that isn’t the same thing as being the same.

No seperate diagnosis needed

Yet again, I have not said they do. I have repeatedly said the opposite! I asked you to provide a quote where you think I have said both diagnoses are required. You have failed to do this. Funny that! Not surprising since I have posted no such thing.

and tagging me in

I have not tagged you in any links. I have only tagged you once and that post did not include any links. It is clear for people to see that from reading my actual posts, not making things up by saying I have tagged you in links when I have not.

I work for a charity who supports parents of disabled DC, including with DLA claims. I also support many parents away from this role. I said I do this (and EHCP support) day in, day out. As in I support parents with this day in, day out and I also support parents with EHCPs (and a range of other things) day in, day out. Everything I have posted is correct. I have provided evidence to prove what I am posting is correct.

@Haze87 have you heard anything back from UC about backpay? x
Does anyone know what the usual wait time is for UC backpay

This was last year but i waited a month for backpay from UC, i did have to ring them for them to sort it in the end as i was not getting a response from the journal.