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Original poster

Mail on Sunday Magazine

1010 replies

lottiejenkins · 02/03/2008 23:23

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

OP posts:
yurt1 · 06/03/2008 16:18

Yes I agree. Her story would make more sense to me if she'd abandonned her daughter then regretted it. But to somehow process is so that years later she can talk about it on the radio as the right decision troubles me.

theheadgirl · 06/03/2008 16:20

Fio, you've made me cry with that I remember........
You're exactly right. To a greater or lesser degree we all go throught the emotions you describe. And as you say we get past them too.
I know the child in question has extensive SN. But this woman doesn't seem to have tried at all. We're talking 5 months. And her story is being told as a "brave" one.......

Original poster
lottiejenkins · 06/03/2008 17:19

My posts have gone on here
www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio4/F2766779?thread=5180253
and
www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio4/F2766779?thread=5169648

OP posts:
yurt1 · 06/03/2008 17:35

i'm there too

2shoes · 06/03/2008 17:41

Fio wonderful sad post.
well done for the bbc posts. they are very good.

wannaBe · 06/03/2008 18:02

have posted too but waiting for my post to be moderated.

my mn nick had already been taken though so have posted under my rl name.

magso · 06/03/2008 18:11

Fio that is exactly what I was thinking - very nicely expressed (I remember that same stage - more spread out for us as the Dxs were delayed!). I seems to me that it may have all happened at once (the Dx/ prognosis/giving away)for Julia whilst she was still in that terribly sad grief filled place before acceptance. But her child was then in the care and attaching to her new mum (Tania). I suspect from that odd detachment that she is still grieving.
Well done for the BBC posts, very nicely put. I hope there is a reply that puts us out of our puzzled misery!!

needmorecoffee · 06/03/2008 18:19

it takes 2 years or so to come to terms with the child you have lost ad the child you have instead. And yes its hard but I'd of never given up on dd. The first few months she yelled 18 hours aday, arching back. Then she started fitting. The nightmare just went on and on. But I'd never have left her at the hospital. Thats the bit that got me. Leave child, come home and get rid of all her stuff.
WTF! And social services thought it was ok cos the child was disabled?

time4me · 06/03/2008 20:36

To everyone,this is wonderful.Fio,your post was brilliant.Thank goodness for those giving another point of view to those who consider Imogens mum brave.
However I do feel sympathy for this mum and in a sense she was very brave,she went against the grain and abandoned her child,that may have been wrong but it was also brave.
I wish someone could have taken my baby off me,all I could think about was where are all these so called doctors who suggest we put him in an institution.Instead I was just left to get on with it which I did cos I had no choice,not brave of me,rather cowardly for not doing what I really wanted.
However I got used to the idea.Sorry thats the best I can come up with.
I still think this poor woman with the right support could have made a brilliant job of caring for Immie,she was lost and I can`t hate her.

yurt1 · 06/03/2008 20:40

I don't know time4me. I don't think she necessarily wanted to give her up. But she had to to stay with beardy. I therefore think she was weak (and he was weaker). I'd never give a child up for a husband (and dh knows that )

wannaBe · 06/03/2008 21:08

I agree with yurt. She clearly was weak to give into the ultimatums of her husband. Not only that, she went on to have another child with that same husband, knowing that, in the event that child were to be disabled, she would be giving that away as well or the husband would leave. I just can't understand her wanting to have another child with that man, I really can't.

Also, while I could perhaps understand that she felt in the early months that she just couldn't cope, and had perhaps put Immy into care while she came to terms with things, and had then taken her back and brought her up, I cannot understand how she could put her into care and leave her there, with occasional visits, and then go on to write a book/appear on the radio and talk in such a detached way about it.

My post is also on the r4 forum now..

yurt1 · 06/03/2008 21:15

yeah it's the 'ending' I don't get. It doesn't seem real. There must be some fall out somewhere. You don't abandon your child, chuck out their stuff then play happily ever after whilst travelling round the country on bloody book tours.

wannaBe · 06/03/2008 21:18

I would be interested to read the book, just to see if it gives any different perspective than the artacle.

but I'm damned if I'll pay money for it.

Original poster
lottiejenkins · 06/03/2008 21:18

I'm gonna wait till its in the library then i dont have to pay for it.................

OP posts:
heartinthecountry · 06/03/2008 21:35

I've just re-read the Mail on Sunday article. What struck me the second time was that she had made the decision to abandon Imogen at the hospital before beardy gave her the ultimatum. She had a sudden panic and wanted to go back and that's when he said 'her or me' so she didn't go back. So she had decided she didn't want Immie even before she knew that would definitely mean losing her partner.

Fio - great post, and some really great ones on the radio 4 website too.

yurt1 · 06/03/2008 21:46

I just re-read it too and yes I see what you mean. Although presumably previous actions had made his thoughts clear.

The thing I'd missed reading it the first time round was the woman from the carer's charity saying that perhaps she should leave Imogen to the doctors. I just don't believe that. I have never come across a carer support organisation that would say such a thing. Especially to a mother at such a difficult stage. I wonder if she misinterpreted?

thestands · 06/03/2008 21:48

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emkana · 06/03/2008 23:45

I keep thinking about this, and it absolutely enrages me that the woman seems to have no shame. To do what she did is one thing, but then to do the whole media tour about it is sickening.

India Knight has written about her on her blog now btw. timesonline.typepad.com/india_knight

emkana · 06/03/2008 23:48

And she only looked after her daughter for five months!!!

Honestly I'm speechless every time I think about ti.

Jenkeywoo · 06/03/2008 23:59

I heard this woman on Radio 4 this week - it was when I was in the car on the way home from a hospital appointment with my lovely little girl who has cerebral palsy. My first thought was not to judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. I don't know how I would re-act in her shoes but as the interview went on I felt sick to the pit of my stomach by her coldness - she was so measured and the sentence about it just not being her destiny was awful. I certainly didn't plan to have a disabled child but by God I will make the most of it and will do the best I can for her.

The mail article is even worse- for me one the saddest bits is when she talks about how she stopped breastfeeding her as she didn't want to be needed by Immie. She followed this by saying that she felt like she was looking after an animal .

Her little name dropping bit about her fmous brother made me feel a bit sick too. TBH she comes across as a fucking toffy nosed twit who didn't want a imperfect child ruining her perfect world.

theheadgirl · 07/03/2008 06:33

Got a reply from India Knight, to say its on her blog!!!
here

yurt1 · 07/03/2008 07:03

You know the thing that strikes me as well is that the day that ds1 passes out of our care (and he will- I know that- his life expectancy is only just short of normal) it will either be because one person/one family cannot manage him anymore - for reasons such as no sleep etc, or because he needs to move to access decent services/provision. But Imogen moved to one foster carer (who was already looking after another disabled child according to India's blog). Her needs could be met by one person and continue to be (apart from the 2 week holiday of course ).

FioFio · 07/03/2008 08:17

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yurt1 · 07/03/2008 08:36

Yes I agree Fio. Reading Pell Mell's thread yesterday shows the difference (and hers is a story I follow and feel as I know we will be there some day).

IN the radio interview she talked about the difficulties of the first year (was it screaming?? can't remember) and did not make it clear that she wasn't even there fore half of it.

As soon as she discovered her (medical) prognosis she dumped her. It's like she can only take a medical view of a relationship or something.

I was thinking this morning of an adult I know with Imogen's level of disability. She's in her 30's now although she wasn't expected to survive childhood. She almost died aged 7 and the doctors told her mother to 'let her go'. Her mother started screaming in the hospital that the doctors were 'not to let her baby die'. And well, over 20 years later she's still here and living at home and enjoying her life as he parents enjoy her company. My Mum (who knows the family well, independently of me) often says that it's her parents who have kept her going all these years and they're the reason she's done so well.

That's brave. Refusing to stay with your child in hospital and not turning up to pick her up doesn't even come close.

TotalChaos · 07/03/2008 09:53

Well done everyone in posting to bbc and contacting India Knight. Pleased to see that India Knight is pondering this issue with some thought.

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