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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

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Mail on Sunday Magazine

1010 replies

lottiejenkins · 02/03/2008 23:23

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

OP posts:
emkana · 09/03/2008 20:32

She did walk away though. She just chose not to pick her up from hospital, when she had no idea who would look after Immie in the future. She was just so f*ing lucky that Tania came along and she could then manufacture it all into this "sharing the load" sob story.

And the not coping... she had only "tried" for all of 5 months!!! And she is well off enough to be able to afford quite a bit of support.

No, it doesn't add up.

yurt1 · 09/03/2008 20:33

And FWIW I have sympathy with her for making such a dreadful decision. She has missed out big time. But lets not pretend that this is about the system, or that there was anything any system could have offered that would make this family keep Immie. Nothing she has said has suggested that.

emkana · 09/03/2008 20:35

I think it's on her blog where she makes a comment about David Cameron and how having 50 k extra a year can buy you help... it doesn't sound though as if she is short of a quid or two herself.

And I think David Cameron and his wife should be applauded for giving an example how having an SN child can be part of a "normal" family.

Taliesintraction · 09/03/2008 20:47

So long as we are all there deriding someone who looked rationally at the situation and decided she as an individual could not cope, we cannot look at changing the system so that she could.

Thats the basic point.

I have been there with the parents at 70 whose health has been destroyed, whose lives had been blessed but mainly blighted. No longer able to cope and the services simply not there.

I wonder where Imi will be when her mother is 70.

Will there be someone telling her mother she cannot become ill or die?

yurt1 · 09/03/2008 20:50

Oh that's a completely different point Talies.

What do you think that she needed to cope? She couldn't cope with having a disabled child. This was not a woman worn down by years of caring. The system did step in and look after Immie. Julia decided she couldn't deal with the system without even trying. It reads like a convenient excuse.

And if 'looking rationally' at the decision involves not bothering to pick her up from hospital and driving all her stuff to the dump then god help me I'd dread to see her not acting rationally

Taliesintraction · 09/03/2008 21:04

I think it's very interesting that this is seen as in some way a different point.

She has made services work for her. She has been clever.

Would her decision making have been perhaps different if things had just clicked in as she left the delivery suite?

In reality she has balanced things well and made the services deliver for her and Immie.

Is this not perhaps the real problem.

Others struggled and the services, as they will do failed to deliver.

But she made them work.

Are you all not perhaps a bit jealous.

yurt1 · 09/03/2008 21:08

Oh trip trap. Nice one. Or are you really that stupid?

Why would I be jealous? Er let me see- dump my child and have him brought up by someone else, or get to see my child each day and be a complete family. Gosh that's a hard one when it's a child I love. .

I'm no martyr either. I have a job I love and that challenges me. Who knows perhaps one day I'll write a book.

yurt1 · 09/03/2008 21:10

PMSL @ balanced things well and made the services deliver.

Lets all throw out our kids when they get a bit difficult. We wouldn't want to get in the way of some self actualisation now would we?

Taliesintraction · 09/03/2008 21:14

Lovely bit of counselor speak.

I could not have written it better myself.

Now answer my point.

Whilst we are all attacking each other the money goes on the Olympics not what children need

turquoise · 09/03/2008 21:17

You seem to have the same attitude to disabled children as Julia, Taliesin, if you believe that any of the mothers who have described their love for their children on this thread would be "jealous" of someone who was able to dump their child and go on to create a "lively" replacement.

yurt1 · 09/03/2008 21:18

Lack of services is not relevant to Julia's story. And either offensive or deluded that she thinks it is. Relevant to many on here, but not Julia.

If you want to talk about services then start a new thread.

The self actualisation was a joke- which will have been understood by long term mumsnettters (as opposed to people who have just signed up an hour ago to troll the SN board).

RustyBear · 09/03/2008 21:19

Umm - I think yurt was being sarcastic about the self-actualisation.....

She (JH) didn't make the system work for her, she dumped her child on the system & was lucky that it came up with a solution that she now sees as ideal.

Taliesintraction · 09/03/2008 21:22

I am sorry you think that.

I wonder if the jealousy is about dumping or achieving service delivery.

I do not know Julia and cannot comment about how she feels for her child, any more than perhaps you do.

yurt1 · 09/03/2008 21:25

Actions usually speak louder than words.

BTW everyone else I told HQ there's a troll on the board.

turquoise · 09/03/2008 21:27

From what I know of the SN board, it is an incredibly supportive environment and there would be great pleasure and satisfaction in someone getting the support from SS they need.

I only know of Julia what she has chosen to reveal in her book, obviously. I have quoted several passages further down the thread.

TotalChaos · 09/03/2008 21:29

Talies - I find your posts mystifying. "achieving service delivery" is a very impersonal term. I'm baffled.

2shoes · 09/03/2008 21:37

omg not another one

Nighbynight · 09/03/2008 21:42

Talies, sorry but this isn't about jealousy, so please dont try to shift blame onto the mothers on this board.
Please read again the things that Julia Hollander has said. She appears to have a revulsion towards SN that is not acceptable in a civilised society. People are angry that she is seeking rational justification for what she has done.

In case your memory needs jogging, let me remind you that she says she stopped breastfeeding her dd as soon as the SN diagnose was made. How was that cleverly making the system work for her?

She got rid of the baby's things while the baby was in hospital. Was this part of a cunning plan to get the system working for her?

2shoes · 09/03/2008 21:50

"Are you all not perhaps a bit jealous."

wtf would I be jealous?
jealous of what?
i have a wonderful dd who is the light of my life. so what if she is disabeld. so what if I will have to care for her for the rest of my life.
She is my daughter. I am not a saint I have struggled but never given up. we don't have the security of a good bank balance or well off siblings but we have love and a intact family.
as for help. it is there. we have a sw, a wonderful sn school that is fully suportive, respite a D.A.H.A. why the fuck should I be jealous of this woman who gave up after 5 months because of a man...

theheadgirl · 09/03/2008 21:56

I am jealous. Not of getting rid of my child, cos I don't have the desire to, thanks very much.
I'm VERY envious that I'm not offered a book deal, to tell you all that I made brave difficult decisions. The money from the book and radio and magazine interviews would be so handy.

wannaBe · 09/03/2008 22:11

I do not have a child with sn. so obviously I have no reason to be "jealous". but I still think that abandoning a baby, and throwing out all her stuff and going on to have another child to replace the one that jh had got rid of is selfish, and shallow, and lots of other things I would probably get banned for posting.

What do you know about the system? Tallies? did it work for you? and if so when might we expect to see your book on the shelves?

sweetgrapes · 09/03/2008 22:28

5 months in hospital and she throws in the towel.......

She didn't even get to know her kid, sn or no sn.

What does she do when her NT kids reach teenage?
Or what if one of the NT kids has an accident and gets brain damaged? (god forbid - not wishing it on anyone...) Pass them off on someone else?
What about dear loving supporting dh? if something happens to him? I suppose he would want her to just leave him at hospital?

How can you just abandon someone you love?

cory · 09/03/2008 23:13

Taliesintraction on Sun 09-Mar-08 20:29:41
"I wonder though who needs to think things through.

This unfortunate mother who has been vilified and targeted for being rational, open, honest and admitting she cannot cope given the support and services that were on offer.

Who is the loving parent?

The one who puts up her hands and says given the available help; she cannot go on. But, she has not walked away from immie, she is still in her life."

You mean the one who chose to stay with the partner whose suggested solution was to murder the child?

The one who was happy to print this in a book where her other daughters will no doubt find it and read it one day?

The one who doesn't mind the world (and her other daughters) finding out that she thought (and spoke aloud) of her disabled daughter as an animal?

The one who withdrew breastmilk the same day she was told her child was brain damaged and long before she had made any effort to find out if help was available or not?

It is absolutely clear from her account that she gave up on her daughter as soon as she knew she was brain damaged. Long before she knew anything about what services might be available. How can you blame the availability of support?- she never asked for any.

She left her in hospital before she knew if there would be any support available for the child; this Tania had not materialised at that stage.

I am not vilifying her for not being able to cope. But I don't like her making money from publicising feelings that most of us would be ashamed of- for good reason! I imagine this will have a very negative effect on her daughters when they find out. She should have kept her trap shut!

I emphatically do not believe that publicising all our innermost feelings is a brave or honest thing to do. Much braver would be to sit down and think about how your openness is likely to affect other people. Both her own daughters and the attitude of society at large towards disabled people.

emkana · 09/03/2008 23:21

Totally irrelevant, but I feel compelled to mention that ds and Imogen share a birthday.

PipinJo · 09/03/2008 23:35

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