Mail on Sunday Magazine

[lottiejenkins]

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

Although you don't need a social worker to access services. I don't have a social worker; I still get direct payments and have applied for a disabled facilities grant.

I think all that stuff about the vicar saying she it wasn't her destiny, and the carer saying she should leave her was just Julia hearing what she wanted to hear.

And she seems to have read policy documents - which are written to - quite rightly- point out failings in services (of which there are many) as an image of family life. Yes, families can be a breaking point, but they still love their child. That's why it's so hard.

The more I read the more I think they just didn't see Immie as lovable.

She just does not see Immie as human, IMO. That's why I can't stop thinking about this, because she has been given a forum to put that attitude out as acceptable, condoned by professionals - "brave" FFS!

More from Red:

"Another common phenomenon for parents with profoundly disabled babies is to want them dead. I only learnt this very recently - Jay's and my urger to murder Immie was (in the words of one paediatrician) 'more common than not'...
My mind turned to suicide. It was my other, healthy child that prevented me - I could not abandon her.
But I could abandon Immie."

I agree with the majority view on here. It's not the fact that the family couldn't cope, it's the way they went about it, and trying to justify what they had done. Nauseating.

I went to the same school as Julia Hollander. She is right when she says that motherhood was swept under the carpet. People like JH were the heroines of the school - great A level results, and going on to an intellectual job. The level of intellectual snobbery among certain of our teachers (not all) was colossal.
Coincidentally, the only other person I know who abandoned her child, also went to this school, though I am not judging her here, she has not gone around boasting about it, she just said she couldnt cope.

God Fio what a horrific thought! "There's enough material there for a whole conference" (Copyright Basil Fawlty).

But you have to have unconditional respct for your clients - I couldn't in htis case.

(Love you too btw)

Just from a therapy pov though (have been pondering while cleaning out rabbits) - she has to dissasociate herself/view Immie the way she does - in order to live with herself and her actions. I just don't think she should able to bring out a book about it - apparently excusing/condoning those actions, and making them ok in the public consciousness.

oh turquoise are you a therapist? (have you name changed)

i just dread to think what might happen if her other two children will turn out not to be as 'perfect' as she thinks they are. and what her children will think when they realise that had they not perfect they'd have been rejected as well.

Yurt, no - I'm a student, blundering midway (hopefully) through a part time counselling diploma.

It sounds as though Julia's upbringing was very much conditional on perfection and achievement as well.

completely agree, fio.

And exactly how much are Elinor and Beatrice going to enjoy their lovely lives when one day they find that book in the bookshop?

When they read that their Dad was calmly suggesting seizing the window of opportunity to murder their sister?

When they read that their Mum was not prepared to invest her breastmilk in a brain damaged child?

When they read that their Mum referred to their sister as an animal?

When they read that their Mum had no hesitation about putting her partner before her child?

It's not that the parents had these reactions under what may well have been moments of stress- it's that they are perfectly happy to put them in print for posterity! If ever there was a time for not washing your dirty linen in public...

That's what I don't get about the chattering classes; they think their need to speak out trumps everybody else's needs.

Hi everyone,this thread has been absolutely fantastic.Thank you to Yurt,2shoes,heartinthecountry,subhuman,wannabe,needmorecoffee,magso and mamazon,and to degeogia too.
One thread after Indias column said that it is brave to go against what society expects you to do so yes I think that giving up her baby knowing she would be villified was brave.I do have a lot of sympathy for Julia,she has been through a tragic experience.As for not standing upto beardy,I dont feel I want to critisize her for that,it is very complex.
I am a working class girl and when I had ds1 who was severely brain damaged I carried on in my NCT group,and they were all Julias,it was very middleclass. The competitiveness of it was so painful for me.How I wished one of these women could have been the one holding my son,I really hated their lack of humility.However when he was older and I took him to playgrounds it was the chavs who dragged their kids away from my son.They were just as hostile. Lets here it for the positives that a such a situation can bring,my dd of 17 has a difficult relationship with ds but is incredibly understanding of any one different.Also Julia talks in Red about her relationship with dh getting stronger and stronger,sorry but they are deluding themselves here,as there is a big BUT there. My relationship with dh got stronger as he is a loyal and loving dad to ds.If beardy had demonstrated how much he loved Immie,then that would have led to her relationship with him becoming stronger. Instead there is an elephant in the room. Poor family,an opportunity missed through a lack of support at the right time.AND she could have gone on to have more children who,yes,would have been so so much better people for having a full-time sibling like Immie.I do have a bit of insight as my dh was a privately educated competitive book wormy Oxbridge type,and he did really struggle,for about 3 months,and he told me to give him up and never visited him in scbu. However love did grow,eventually.He is a brilliant dad and so devoted to our ds,and we have loads of debt,no money or special facilities,even our tiny bathroom is falling to pieces.Who cares,were so happy,the intimacy our ds has brought us is one of the reasons,if not the reason.
Sorry this is so long but I cannot get it out of my mind,I`ve got so much strength from it.We WERE Julia and Jay,but we kept our child and I am so glad we did.
Yes look at Henrietta Spink,similar family but so different.Oh yes and one more thing,I am convinced India read these threads before she wrote her column

oops oops there is no one called subhuman on this thread,I had just scribbled it down amongst my notes by accident when reading the thread,so sorry!

Looking through the Amazon review, I came across this comment, which included this wonderfully patronising piece of sh*t
"Its a shame that more mothers of disabled children cant embrace the sharing aspect instead of being outwardly brave and struggling on alone."

Having read on these boards of the struggles to get even a tiny amount of respite ( I remember the one where a child was refused because they were in mainstream school and another was refused because they weren't) I'm sure you would all love to know that all you have to do is "embrace the sharing aspect"

Lovely message time4me.

and WTF is 'embracing the sharing aspect'. It sounds like fucking self actualising to me

This is a very interesting thread.

I wonder though who needs to think things through.

This unfortunate mother who has been vilified and targeted for being rational, open, honest and admitting she cannot cope given the support and services that were on offer.

Who is the loving parent?

The one who puts up her hands and says given the available help; she cannot go on. But, she has not walked away from immie, she is still in her life.

Or the ones who put their whole lives on the line, lose their partners, ostracise their other children, are plunged into unsupported poverty and a life of permanent struggle.

Really, should the whole debate not hinge about support?

Should not every parent of a child get whatever help they need to parent their children?

Based on what the child and their parents needs.

Don't pick on the parent, blame the system that puts more into the London Olympics than meeting the needs of children.

oh it;'s not about the system though is it. That's a totally different issue. I could wax lyrical about the system for hours on end.

This family dumped their child as soon as they found out she was disabled. The system is supporting her rather well (she gets to be 'Mum' without getting her hands dirty). Hers is an example of the system working rather well.

What help did she need to parent Immie. It seems to me a magic wand and a 'normal' baby.