Mail on Sunday Magazine

[lottiejenkins]

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

Yes I can relate to DiGeogias comments. I rushed out this morning and bought the Guardian,as having been in this position 20 years ago I can really relate to the story. I must say I think this mum must have been extraordinary determined (and brave)to follow through what she wanted to do.Its a nonsense in my opinion that it is suggested you leave a baby like this in a home or just go home and forget it etc.At the time I told the hospital staff,social workers etc I didnt want to take my baby home they all reacted with shock and horror and made me feel that I had no choice.My son was in hospital for 3 months and during that time there was a concerted effort from all to take my baby home and make a go of things.I did because I didnt feel I had a choice,but also I was convinced that there might be a person out there who would love my baby for what he was and make a far better job of looking after him. I realise I was thinking about someone like Tania.Immies mum must have fought the authorities like mad to have her taken off her and she was lucky that Tania was around.
Suppose she went to an awful situation and then was passed from pillar to post,and she felt great reservations every time she visited.Instead Tania validates everything.

But this isn?t about judging her because she was unable to cope. There are parents all over the country who find it unable to cope, the parents who make the decision to terminate a sometimes much wanted pregnancy when they find out that the baby has a disability because they feel they would be unable to cope with that. I have never seen any of them judged on these boards, although I do think that there is often much ness on the part of the parents who do have children with disabilities that are detectable inutero when posters talk about having to be tested and knowing that they would terminate a child with such a disability.

I do think it takes some courage to stand up and say that you can?t cope, that you need help, and in some instances that you feel you are not able to do the best by your child and therefore someone else may be better suited to care for that child. But?

Julia didn?t do that. She took a week to do some reading, she waited till Immy was in hospital and she then went and threw out all her stuff. And when her husband gave her an ultimatum she walked away from her disabled child in favour of a life with a ?normal? family (I?ve put normal in quotes because I don?t want to infer that a family with disabled children is not normal). And then, and this is the bit that sits most uncomfortably with me, she went on to have another child. And because that child did not have a disability, she was allowed to grow up in Julia?s perfect family, but presumably if she had been disabled she would have been sent to live with Immy, or perhaps with another foster carer where her family would visit once a week and where she would have been allowed to have a relationship with her siblings from a distance, just as Immy does.

Imo it?s one thing to admit you can?t cope, to ask for help and to then deal with that on a personal and emotional level, but to make a choice between your husband and child, and to then write a book so as you might prophet from the experience is quite another.

I told dh her story last night. He was vaguely sympathetic until I got to the bit about them driving Imogen's stuff to the dump whilst the elder child was at nursery.

There are 'brave' ways to deal with not coping. I honestly think for many families there comes a time when a severely disabled child may be better off elsewhere and it does take bravery to recognise that and deal with it. But that means deal with it. Not just dump the problem by not turning up to pick your child up, then make sure you can't by driving all her stuff to the dump.

What really disturbs me about this story is the number of people who think that the story is 'brave' just because it involves a severely disabled child. People don't suddenly become brave because they can't cope with profound disability. OK they can't cope. And they have to live with that. Fine. But they don't need to write a book about it. And it doesn't have to be dressed up as brave.

There are lots of 'brave' stories out there concerning disability. Henry Spink is one of them, Lorenzo's oil, the Grabriel book I mentioned earlier. I don't recognise bravery from this woman.

dgeorga wrote: ust to clarify, I do have the greatest respect for the posters here, and by no means wish to upset or insult anyone here. Most of you are coping magnificently well but while being honest if asked if I could have coped - I just don't know! Probably not in the same circumstances.

Most of aren't really coping, we're just putting one foot in front of the other like you have to when you have a disabled child. And without the benefit of Julia's money. Thats because your child is your child and its abhorrent for most mothers to ditch them, regardless of how hard it is.
My daughter is as disabled as immie and yes, I've sometimes wished she was gone so I didn't have to carrying on with this shitty life but I'd never get rid of her. I cry, vent and then carry on.
The same thing would happen if, god forbid, any of my 3 older children became brain injured. I wouldn't dicth them either. But I do wonder if Ms Hollander would and whether her NT daughters wonder the same thing.

Hi Middleagedmum,

Tania is among an army of women and families who offer a very unique and tiring service and does so with love and compassion. She is 'paid' as a foster parent and while I have not spoken to any foster parents about this I would not doubt it neither meets minimum wage requirements or come with benefits many of as workers would enjoy.

As a foster mum I would also not be surprised to hear she has much more support then many parents coping do. Yet it is woefully inadequate at times.

So Julia is to be condemned for abandoning her daughter, then condemned for sticking around to notice this, or for mentioning it?

I don't think she should be condemned for highlighting something those who foster or those who know the terms they work under. And while mothers here have run around to highlight what they think of this mother and get the word out I wonder how many have bothered to write to their MPs and ask why there is not better support for people like Tania, and for mothers who do carry on caring for their children.

No I'm not that brave, I have enough respect for the posters here to know intelligent discussion can take place without flaming.

"And while mothers here have run around to highlight what they think of this mother and get the word out I wonder how many have bothered to write to their MPs and ask why there is not better support for people like Tania, and for mothers who do carry on caring for their children."

I don't understand what you mean. Those of us posting on here are those mothers.

In my spare time I do campaign (if I think it's worthwhile, I certainly have contacted my MP over various issues. I don't take on every campaign because not everything is equally likely to pay off and I save my energy these days). I work in an area that I hope will eventually allow me to contribute ideas that have the potential to shape policy. I also lend a hand to others where I can. For example I find things like DLA forms incredibly dull and depressing to fill in, but I also have a reasonable idea of how the system works and I share that knowledge. Last week I helped someone fill in a motability claim- she should be receiving higher rate and I hope she will now. That's probably far more use than some book or actually some wasted energy campaigning for something that will take 20 years to change.

This is not to blow any sort of trumpet. I know many people who do this sort of thing day in day out and I have been in receipt of great kindnesses (is that a word?) from others in similar situations. Parents, ime do support each other, both in passing on information on how to deal with the system and emotional support in dealing day in day out with severe and profound disabilities. That's just normal behaviour.

If Julia is to be condemed for anything it would be for publishing a book that suggests it is difficult for a mother to love and accept a profoundly disabled child. I don't think that is a common or normal reaction (although certainly feelings of panic and distress and 'how will I cope' are, especially in the early days). I dread to think what effect this book could have on a mother going through that - knocked to the floor and haven't yet picked myself up - stage.

Better a book that tells you those feelings are normal but that they pass and that the love that develops for that child is a special and deep and unique as the love you have for any other child.

Hi turquoise,

I certainly don't have a problem with non sn parents posting.

I realy don't want to upset anyone, or cause offence, but I will speak my mind. If anyone has read the book and the information in the DM article was taken way out of context then please correct me.

But it seemed to me what she was being told at a very vulnerable time was that her daughter was nothing more then a screaming slab of flesh - my interpretation.

Of course there is a large element of 'selfishness' involved, how can there not be? Her family was falling apart, her older daughter was not getting the attention she needed. It was not just about what was right for Imi, but also for them.

Would her attitude have been the same if Imi was not disabled or so severely disabled, I would say the answer is no. Should she be condemned because of this? Is it any worse then parents who dump their non sn kids into care because they cannot cope with them, because they do not fit into their lifestyles, those mothers who neglect their kids because of drink and/or drugs, don't believe their daughters are being raped by partners because they cannot face up to it?

In the general scheme of things I don't consider what she has done as evil.

It was not that long ago children like Imi were dumped into instutions and forgotten by families. Even our understanding of how much potential some sn children have has grown a great deal in the last two or three decades.

Even so this is something still not often understood by people without sn children.

Sorry everyone, we're off out for the evening but will try and reply to others later tonight or tomorrow.

"Is it any worse then parents who dump their non sn kids into care because they cannot cope with them, because they do not fit into their lifestyles, those mothers who neglect their kids because of drink and/or drugs, don't believe their daughters are being raped by partners because they cannot face up to it?"

Er no. But I don't see people being described as 'brave' if they do so. And in those cases people are (rightly) concerned about the children.

But it seemed to me what she was being told at a very vulnerable time was that her daughter was nothing more then a screaming slab of flesh - my interpretation.

omg, omg. shocked does not describe how I feel after reading that comment dgeorgea you have lost all my respect.
if you think dumping a baby because it doesn't fit in to your lifestyle fine.
you have a right to an opion and so do I.
as for flaming. For most people on this thread this is a subject very close to home. a lot of us have been in that place.

Would her attitude have been the same if Imi was not disabled or so severely disabled, I would say the answer is no. Should she be condemned because of this? Is it any worse then parents who dump their non sn kids into care because they cannot cope with them, because they do not fit into their lifestyles, those mothers who neglect their kids because of drink and/or drugs, don't believe their daughters are being raped by partners because they cannot face up to it?

do these people than write books and make themselves out to be brave...i don't think so.
also if an nt child is put into care then ss would follow up and most likely either take the other children in to care or at the very least keep an eye on them,
doessn't seem so in this case..I wonder why.

"It was not that long ago children like Imi were dumped into instutions and forgotten by families."

• Isn't that what people on this thread are objecting to in this particular case? It's a matter of sheer luck that Imi found her way to Tania, the mother simply 'dumped' her. The lauding of her "brave" decision to do so, after just five months, is what is so abhorrent.

I am going to get in touch with MAMAZON nd get her on this thread as she can give the SW side.

As Fio pointed out aeons ago there was no Tania lined up when they decided to leave her. As someone else pointed out on this thread a baby in special care waited 9 months to find a foster parent.

If they'd looked at Tania and seen someone who could help them, or even who could do a better job, then fine. But that's not what happened. Tania wasn't in the equation when they decided they weren't going to collect her.

Another thing that strikes me is it seems that she was surrounded by people telling her to abandon Immie. I find that bizarre and really unlikely - she must have heard what she wanted to hear.

I have to tell you about dd's freind.
mum was a teen and her bf left her when she was pregnant. when H was born it all went wrong and H was left with severe cp. mum couldn't cope and had a kind of breakdown. H was fostered by a lovely family. when mum was better H went back home. Mum is one of the most devoted mums I know. she has battled for a good life for her dd. she has sued. she has battled with the LEA to get H into the right school and she has loved her.
the good thing is the foster family became a link family for H and suported mum until H went to boarding school.
I posted this just to prove even if someone can't cope. you do not have to give your baby away.

Can I please formally retract what I said 300 or so posts ago about not judging this woman from the Mail on Sunday article. I think in this particular case, the Mail got it spot on, infact I think they were perhaps kind.

I've read every article this woman has written that I can find, I've listened to her. And everything I hear makes me dislike her more.

She can wrap this whole thing up how she wants in her own mind. She can justify it to herself about being about highlighting the lack of support in this country, or the fantastic work that foster carers do (which I don't dispute). But she gives herself away every time she refers to Immie (not normal, a child such as her, an animal.. I could go on). She sees her as sub human. For that I can't forgive her.

In the Red article, she even congratulates herself 'By accepting my own incapacity, I have gained so much for everyone'.

I don't think I need to say more.

"But it seemed to me what she was being told at a very vulnerable time was that her daughter was nothing more then a screaming slab of flesh - my interpretation.". how dare you! how dare you refer to a child, an innocent baby, as a "screaming slab of flesh" (that was your interpretation after all) .

Regardless of Immy's disabilities, regardless of whether he mother felt she could/couldn't care for her, regardless of your own feelings on disability and whether you could cope with a child with disability, that description is sickening and unforgiveable. .

Actually I think that's how lots of people do seethe severely/profoundly disabled. I often fight back against what I call the vegetabalisaiton of ds1. I think many health care professionals are that crass when it comes to the learning disabled. Usually mother's can see through that and beyond that though. Usually they can hope for more.

Fantastic post HITC and I totally agree.

dgeorga wrote 'And while mothers here have run around to highlight what they think of this mother and get the word out I wonder how many have bothered to write to their MPs and ask why there is not better support for people like Tania, and for mothers who do carry on caring for their children.'

I am one of those mothers caring for a severely brain damaged child 24 hours a day for 4 years. I've written endless bloody letters to my MP, am on the hospital disability board, am a disability advisor to the council, have campaigned for accessible buses, more care, fought social services for 4 years to get me some decent respite care and then told everyone else how much I get so the SS can't claim everyone only gets 2 hours a year.
I never farking stop trying to make the world a better place for carers and for disabled poeple and I never stop caring for my daughter and 3 other children so bog off with your assumptions.
I'm not brave or coping or even rich like that woman but 5 months is pathetic. She dumped her as soon as she realised she was brain damaged. I was told at birth dd was severely brain damaged but didn't flee from the hospital.

wannabe, when dd was born the doc said she would be a 'vegetable'. I told him to fuck right off and never come back.

but it's wrong. Yes people have their opinions and we will never stop people from being inwardly prejudiced but to come out and say it is just wrong. These are peoples' children. The most vulnerable members of society, and yet people seem to feel they have the right to cast their opinions over them in a way they would never do if it were someone who could tell them to fuck off in person.

You know I cannot begin to know how hard it is to care for a disabled child 24/7, and so in a way I feel I don't really have a right to keep voicing my opinions on this thread, but I just keep coming back to it, and the more I read about Julia, and her supporters, and those that seem to feel that dumping a baby because she had something wrong with her is admirable and brave, the angrier i am on behalf of all of those of you that have to put up with this prejudice on a daily basis.

because there but for the grace of god go any of us really, and while it might be easy enough for the julia's of this world to walk away from their children, we none of us know what lies ahead, and one day the julia's of this world could find themselves the one with the disability, and the subject of their own prejudices.

God yes of course it's wrong. And this book does nothing to alter people's opinions of that. But look at the responses. People think she was 'brave' because they think profoundly disabled children are sub-human and therefore dumping them in hospital with no care sorted is brave.

The number of things that I've had said to me about ds1 - and people don't even realise they're saying it- made me realise long ago that people see severe disability and think 'vegetable'.

BUt the one's that don't (and there are plenty that don't) become very good friends

so how do we change opinions? because there must be a way, given that not everyone thinks like that? How do those of us that don't view the severely disabled as "vegetables" get through to those that do?

or am I naive?