Quick thread - need advice - SALT at 3pm

[lougle]

DD2 had SALT assessment in June. result: General speech/language at/around average. Doesn't initiate conversation and didn't respond to non verbal cues, but school say she's ok, so it's not affecting her.
I complained by email, said concerns weren't with general language (I.e. she can name a girl if shown a picture, etc).

Now, SALT coming today to reassess and observe. She deals with SCD/ASD type stuff.

I've been invited to discuss her findings at 3pm (school finishes 3'30), so under 30 minutes to talk.

Can you lovelies think of all the areas I should highlight?

e.g. Mrs X, ELSA told DD2 she wouldn't see her today because she had a meeting. DD2 smiled with her tongue pushed behind her bottom lip, nodding as Mrs X was telling her. I know Mrs X would think she's fine with it. However, ar breakfast DD2 told me that she was only ok with going to school today because she has Mrs X this afternoon.

TIA

I told ds he was driving me up the wall.

He didn't stop laughing for about half an hour and then started asking me 'are you flying me over the table?' 'Are you swimming me along the ceiling?'

Lougle have you provided written examples of dd2's language to teacher/SENCO/SALT? I cannot figure why her expressive language would be dismissed!

Could you write down dd2's language, restricted to 24hr snippet maybe, and contact Margo Sharp and ask her to 'triage' it for you?

I have an unexplained pain. I went to the GP. He said wait a month and see if it goes. It didn't.

I went back and he referred me for an ultrasound. That came back negative with no recommendation for more in depth scan.

Pain still exists so GP referred for basic bloods. Bloods came back fine.

Back to GP who said with a sigh 'Don't know what is wrong. It might take a long time to figure it out. So lets get on and do a more detailed blood test referral.'

At no point did he ever say 'you don't have pain' even though my functioning to him appears okay and no-one but me can see it.

Sorry. That last post looked a bit random.

What I was saying was that when you say there is a problem in the medical world, you are believed even though it isn't seen, and you are still believed when tests can't find anything, and subsequently sent for tests requiring more expertise.

Why does this not happen for children with SEN?

Keep, I'm never anything other than honest, tbh. If someone asked me my experience of something, I'd tell them. I wouldn't be dishonest to save them from themselves.

It may seem to you that I had an easy ride with DD1. Perhaps in comparison to some I did - she certainly ended up at the right destination, which is a minor miracle at school entry age when you haven't been to a special nursery (and co-incidentally, I've been at a party tonight, talking to a parent of a girl who has joined DD1's class this year, Year 3, after going to special nursery then mainstream primary until they managed to get her into special school). I still had to raise concerns at 8mo, 10mo, 15mo, 17mo, 20mo. Then still had to insist on referral to Paed at 2y9mo, before DD1 conveniently fell over for no reason. Had she not had her epilepsy diagnosis she wouldn't have had the EEG which urged the Paed to order an MRI to establish the reason for uneven electrical discharge. I still had to kick up a fuss with the SALT department when her SALT was ineffective and I still had to manage every appointment to ensure she got provision. I still had to tell the Inclusion Co-Ordinator that I wasn't satisfied with her pace and I'd apply for the statement myself.

Handy yes, on 01/01/13 I saw DD1's Paed with DD2. I had provided in advance a comprehensive document about our concerns. I had given over 20 specific examples of her language. Examples such as:
• 'I am so shopping tired and all that twisting and turning, I'm boy oh boy oh tired!'
• “But I do actually love quicker ones” – she meant softer liquorice.
• “When will the grass stop watering my feet?” (We had walked over a field with wet grass)
• “What is all this stuffs that we give to Patch but we can’t eat doing all here?”
• ‘What is making all that pieces of noises?’ (She heard the sound of a game I was playing on the computer).
• ‘Patch can have tuna because it is strong for him!’
• ‘After I’ve finished breakfast, could I please not have orange juice?’
• ‘I need to be shush as possible, do I?’
• 'On the day that wasn't Wednesday but after Thursday....'

I also gave detailed accounts of her literal thinking, impaired play skills, basically every aspect of development.

He dismissed it with a wave of his hand and said that he 'couldn't get too worked up about a few grammatical errors.' He had no intention of referring to SALT. I emailed him to say that on reflection, we felt SALT referral was necessary and please could he refer.

In June the SALT went in to school. She found skills to be within range. She noted lack of response to non-verbal cues, etc. but found that they weren't impairing her function (because school said so) and therefore there was no role for SALT.

I gave a quite short document to last week's SALT, but she didn't seem interested.

Star that analogy is good. At the moment they're at the 'pain denying' stage.

Incidentally, the teacher stopped me to tell me DD2 is working independently in class now, the day after the SALT had been in, and the day after that DD2 got star cushion the day 'for getting on with her work independently.'

Lougle, your dd2 sounds much more like ds1 (ASD and adhd & high IQ & bits) than like dd (bit-quirky-but lots-of-7y-old-are-the same)

Don't hink you should give up on seeing MS. Have you seen this and this? I don't know where you trained, but if there is a suitable fund and a RL reference would help, let me know.

Despite that list of diagnoses, the competent and well-trained statutory EP, SLT and OT found nothing at all the matter (unlike the indie ones who wrote several pages each about the observed, obvious difficulties).

And everything I documented or demonstrated seemed to make them believe the evidence of their own eyes even less, iykwim

I blame the law of the hammer

Oh Lougle I'm sorry I'm just wracking my brains to think of one, just one thing that you could think of that you haven't already

It sounds as though school have moved on to thinking about another child for now. In my experience they have a fairly short attention span.

Really feel for you and your predicament, Lougle

I blame the law of the hammer

^ yy to this!!! A million times over!! It's like a smile and an interaction and a whizz through Sally-Ann = NOT ASD

I think the paed is being disengenous (sp?) to dismiss these as a 'few grammatical errors' ASD is about the use and interpretation of language. This is how our Paed framed my dd2's language which is very, very, very, very, very similar to your dd2's language.

Remember also, Lougle the SALT you spoke briefly to who thought your dd2's language was 'disordered'.

Maria, that's really thoughtful, thank you. I haven't nursed for all of DD2's life. I've been out a long time now, unfortunately. 7 years.

It's very encouraging to hear from those of you with diagnoses who were not picked up by NHS professionals.

I can't help thinking about the absolutely ironic nature of the assessment:

-Take a child out of the classroom they feel awkward in and take them to 'the base' - the place they feel safe in.
-Introduce yourself as 'X' and tell DD2 that you see DD1 in her Special School every week, and that you'll make sure you tell DD1 that you've seen DD2.
-Do assessments on a 1:1 basis, in a quiet room.
-Go to classroom to 'observe'.
-Don't sit close enough that you can hear what is said by DD2, but assume that what is said is meaningful.

I have never said that DD2 doesn't interact with other children at her new school (she didn't at the old school; she literally blanked them). However, I really don't think that:

'Luce, Hey Luce!' from a distance, then saying nothing once you've got her attention

or

'Hey, Polly, I'm wearing my hat and gloves and scarf!' when walking towards a fireworks display on a cold evening

or

'Hi guys, look at my lunch box'

or calling someone's name and then standing still, shoving your tongue through a gap in your teeth, hoping they'll notice that there's a tooth missing without saying anything.

Is appropriate interaction.

So, frankly, who cares that she sat next to a child and said 'something' to them? I don't. In fact, given that it was a quiet sharing circle, it would have been more appropriate had she sat next to someone and said nothing, because it wasn't her turn to speak.

Handy if all the NHS were that SALT I 'spoke' to briefly, the NHS would be in great shape.

The hammer was awesome, Maria.

It would be easier if we all said we can't see what you're talking about wouldn't it?

Life's hard sometimes.

Lougle, exactly. "Experienced nurse, coped with her dd1 identified SEN but currently outside of practice 'largely because of dd2 undiagnosed SN'. Panel says yes"

Did you see the golden hammer? IT guys/girls term for a wrong solution, applied in a cult-like way

Remember Lougle my dd2 was also seen by NHS SALT and no problems identified, don't forget. NHS SALT were only involved at the ASD specialist level as part of MDT. She (specialist NHS ASD SALT) is an expert in girls on the spectrum and is a breed apart.

Yes, I did Maria. Hmm... I see what you mean about the nursing, but the truth is more:

'NHS Nurse, trained for 2 years, spent 2 years full time nursing, then had mat leave, then did about a year part-time nursing, then quit....'

The Golden Hammer is awesome.

If only DD2 had a Y chromosome and didn't smile when she's nervous....

For all you know Lougle they have a lack of applications this year and need to allocate the money to whoever asks. That's sometimes the way with small funds. You don't get much but you have a good chance iyswim.

Lougle from the age of 2 to 5 and half ds saw various community paeds. One even told me 'don't let anyone tell you your son has autism, he is far too bright' when I suggested autism to her.

He had been seen by SALT's since the age of 2, who went into nursery to provide targets for them to work on some phonological difficulties ie 'car' was 'tar' etc, etc. They never noticed any other difficulties, in 3 years.

Ds had been seen by dietician when he was about 3, due to being anaemic due to his restricted diet.

He had been seen by OT due to sensory difficulties.

He had a dx of hypermobility, failed hearing tests and a dx of eye disorder (an eye disorder which is 'typical' in ASD)

Every symptom of ASD that a child could have, yet not one of these professionals even suggested Autism to me in 3 years.

I lodged complaints about every one of them. Ds was then seen by senior specialist ASD paed and SALT and he had a dx within 5 months.

Why couldnt countless paeds, SALT's and other professionals see in 3 years, what it took another paed and SALT to see in 3 assessments...the level of expertise.

Thanks Claw, that's helpful too.

Has the car-tar thing resolved?

DD1 (8.1) has been having SALT since 3, with cued articulation in the last year. She still says 'tar'.

I was speaking to a mum in DD2's school (we were both helping) and she asked 'what was wrong'with DD1. I used the car-tar example and she said:

"Oh my niece was like that- stick a straw in her mouth."
Blow Me, it works!

With a straw in her mouth, she can say 'car'almost perfectly. Without it, she says 'c....c....c...tar'

Car-tar and lots of other blends like 'tree' would be 'kwee' etc . Not due to anything SALT did, more to do with me doing Jolly Phonics with him every night and it pretty much resolved once ds learnt to read and could see/read the difference, rather than having to rely on hearing the difference.

McDonalds was HcDonalds and no matter how many times I told him its 'Mc' he just couldn't say it. One day walking past McDonalds (once he could read) he read the sign and asked 'mum why didn't you tell me it was called McDonalds and not HcDonalds! [face palm]

He still uses tense ending like 'mistaked' or 'flied' and says certain words such as 'where' sound more like 'weir'.

At one point he couldn't name everyday household items, such as microwave, mirror, kettle, oven, washing machine etc, etc and if you asked him to name them he would describe what they did. We had post it notes stuck on everything naming objects once he could read and this really helped. He still has some trouble for example he wouldn't know 'light switch' or 'radiator'. He cannot name months of the year is another example. Although according to SALT he has well developed language abilities (well he does for most purposes) and doesn't need SALT input!

claw
Knew the golden arches had a good point