Quick thread - need advice - SALT at 3pm

[lougle]

DD2 had SALT assessment in June. result: General speech/language at/around average. Doesn't initiate conversation and didn't respond to non verbal cues, but school say she's ok, so it's not affecting her.
I complained by email, said concerns weren't with general language (I.e. she can name a girl if shown a picture, etc).

Now, SALT coming today to reassess and observe. She deals with SCD/ASD type stuff.

I've been invited to discuss her findings at 3pm (school finishes 3'30), so under 30 minutes to talk.

Can you lovelies think of all the areas I should highlight?

e.g. Mrs X, ELSA told DD2 she wouldn't see her today because she had a meeting. DD2 smiled with her tongue pushed behind her bottom lip, nodding as Mrs X was telling her. I know Mrs X would think she's fine with it. However, ar breakfast DD2 told me that she was only ok with going to school today because she has Mrs X this afternoon.

TIA

Aww Lougle you will get there in the end and you are doing all you can

Just pulled this thread out for someone else, lougle. There's a few pertinent comments about your DD2 in it, lougle. Particularly on how she learns how to say something then get stuck saying it the same way, each time.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/a1763581-Language-for-Thinking?msgid=40619160

How are you this morning Lougle?

I'll post later, on phone right now. I'm ok. Terrible drop off with DD2, but surviving.

OK, on computer now.

Well this morning I took DD2 to school and as soon as she got there she burst into tears. She'd remembered that her teacher had told her to bring in something that reminds her of her as a baby, and she should have brought Ellie (the elephant comforter snuggle that she's only become fond of in the last 3 months, but we tried to give her as a baby )

So she was wailing (literally) that she hadn't done the homework and basically went into a flat spin. A TA saw her from the adjacent classroom and mouthed at me 'ohhh she's crying ' I, trying to keep myself together, simply nodded. She came to the door, took DD2 inside for a couple of minutes, then DD2 came out. She was still crying. Then she started to cling to the back of my coat, so that as I tried to turn to see her, she also turned behind me.

The class teacher opened the door for the morning and I discreetly said 'Mrs X, could you peel DD2 off me, please?'. She said of course, and said to DD2 as she did, 'I believe Mrs R has already spoken to you about this this morning, DD2. You'll just have to talk about your toy instead.'

Once DD2 was inside, I spoke to her and said 'I can bring in Ellie if that would help, or perhaps you'd rather she learned the consequence of forgetting your instructions.' She said that she'd been telling them about it for 2 days, she'd told them she wouldn't be sending a note home and she specifically wanted them to remember to pass on the message to their parents. Then she asked 'if I was ok'. I just said 'another day, another dollar.'

Later, I went to help at the school and Mrs X saw me. She said that actually, she had been meaning to speak to me. She says that DD2 is much more settled. She's working independently and not asking for help as she used to. She's still sucking her hand, but it isn't getting in the way as it was.

I shared my view that I feel Dragonflies is the cause and I worry for the time that it stops. She says, au contraire, that she feels DD2 just 'needed to get to know her and her ways.' I mentioned that she panicked about her cover teacher at first, because she didn't know her. I pointed out that she did this last year, she's done it this year, and I'm certain she'll do it the year after. 1/2 a year to get 'comfortable' in a class is a waste of half of her school life!

It seemed to prompt a flash of inspiration from Mrs X. She said that the previous year she had a very anxious child and they did an extended transition with early visits to the new classroom/new teacher and pictures, etc. She's suggested it could be done with DD2.

So that's the latest. Thanks for asking

I'm still befuddled. DD2 wanted to show Nanny and Grandad her yoyoing today. She couldn't get the string on her finger, and wouldn't bring it to me because then Nanny and Grandad would see the yoyo. I said 'Just put it in your arms and bring it to me.'

She said 'I haven't got 3 arms to hide the yoyo and the string!!'
So I said 'well just come in anyway.'
She said 'I can't performance them with them knowing it.'

I just don't hear other children talking like that.

Also, SENCO was taking the class at the end of the day. DD2 walked out of the class with her coat on properly. As we rounded the corner, she stripped it off, and put it around her like a cape again.

Lougle, there is currently a campaign about the perception that many parents with children on the Autistic Spectrum are at an increased chance of FII allegations.

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/mark-lever-act-on-allegations-of-fabricated-or-induced-illness-being-used-as-a-bullying-tactic-by-professionals-on-parents-of-children-with-autism

I'm not telling you this to frighten you as I'm sure, even if true it is still relatively rare. However, I refuse to believe that the professionals doing this are inherently evil (with one or two exceptions I'm sure) but just dumbfounded by cases where parents know things they just can't see themselves.

The fact that this is alleged to be especially related to parents of children with ASD I think is due to the sheer level of ignorance out there by professionals and an increased level of expertise amongst parents.

Thanks Star

Tbh...if they did go down that line, they'd need to take all 3 and I doubt they'd want to do that

Hey. How you doing today?

My DS classic today was saying the sensors on the automatic door werent sensoring him as they wouldnt open!
Reminded me of your DD2's performancing comment.

Your DD2 sounds so similar to my DS in many ways. The only thing I can say is at 6yo no one really recognised it was an issue as such iyswim? although there were concerns about him and I could see it way before then.

What I would say is dont give up. Eventually you'll get the right SALT/teacher/ SENCo.

This is what's so confusing. So far, the people who have said that DD2 is 'just like their child' are:

Handywoman
NewblueCoat (re. her DD2)
youarewinning
Poltergoose
Ineed
at least a couple of others

All either have a SN dx or are in the pipeline.

Yet, DD2 is 'typical', I'm am told, for a 6 year old.

lougle DS was 'typical' of a summer born boy with poor social communication apparently.

My DS is awaiting the ASD assessment but whatever the outcome of that the similarities I see between your DD2 and my DS are the speech ones.
SALT assessment the same day as your DD2 and I get told he has a complex language disorder - eg hightly intelligent with exressive language but missing the bits he needs before that Was told he has no/limited creative thinking and needs rules and will learn social responses by rules and rote. She said that as hes 9yo it's unlikely he'll ever develop a natural empathy as he hasnt already! The only thing is I got told he lacks theory of mind whereas you said the SALT said your DD2 didnt?

Lougle has a senior specialist ASD SALT seen your dd? These are usually SALT's who are part of a wider team, not just a SALT who says they have experience of ASD.

Yes, she passes the Sally-Ann test. In the story she was told,a girl puts her watch in a rucksack and goes for a swim. Meanwhile,a bird swoops down and steals the watch. DD correctly identified that the girl would expect the watch to be in her rucksack, where she left it.

However, she can't put herself in someone else's shoes, so to speak. One time I said 'how do you think x would feel...' and she yelled 'how would I know?? Her mind isn't my mind!'

Again though, she can pass because we've practiced feelings. So she can say 'sad'or 'angry'.

But, in real life situations she can't apply that and show appropriate reactions.

The right people with the right expertise just haven't looked at her.

Your dd is nothing like my Ds. But if I had to 'sort' into her into a box as well as my own kids, she'd definitely go in with Ds rather than dd.

She has Ds' vulnerability rather than dd's ability to read minds and plan ahead the most conniving of plans. No idea if she's NT but her outstanding mainstream primary is where she 'fits'.

She's a bright girl. That version of the Sally-Anne test could well be too simple for her. She could well have learnt the rules to get her through that level.

DS can pass the Sally Anne test. He's been taught to specifically. Some are able to teach themselves. Doesn't mean they have a natural 'feel' for the problem in the way a NT child woukd.

You can train a child to do the following:

Perform Sally Anne
Use Eye contact
Reciprocal conversation
Role play
Hide stim

Indeed, many ABA programmes are designed with these as the focus (ethics of this is another thread)

Bright children, especially girls who have learned imitation skills, can train themselves.

In these cases you need someone trained beyond these basic tests.

It's quite heartbreaking to witness.

One day agree really hurt me by something she said (I was feeling very, very ill, and when I laid down on the sofa she said 'you're just a lazy person').I, being ill, burst into tears and DH called her to him, for her dinner.

She came back out to me afterward and stood, biting her lip. I asked what the matter was and she said 'Do you want me to hug you, or just go away?.' I said 'what do you want to do?' and she said 'I don't know. I think I should hug you but you might want me to go away, so I don't know...'

Lougle, I think its all in the experience of the SALT and how they word it, how many clues they give, how many guesses allowed etc and sometimes even down to luck!

Ds was shown a picture of a young boy falling into a river, ds described the scene well (there was a lifebuoy hanging in the picture) . He suggested phoning the police to pull him out or police dogs could save him...... however he wasn't able to move on from this idea, despite being told there wouldn't be enough time to phone the police to help the boy.

Another shown a picture of a burglar who had only stolen a watch and he was asked 'why the burglar had only stolen the watch (a dog had scared him away) 'the burglar needed to see what the time was'.

Another the boy had lost his key and was standing outside his house (boy had emptied his pockets onto the door step when looking for his key. Ds had about 6 guesses 'he has dropped all his stuff' 'he is looking for his money' 'he is waiting for his brother to come and open the door' etc, etc

Bird swoops down and steals a watch from backpack, i think ds would be able to say that the girl would expect her watch to be in her back pack. There is kind of only one answer to that iyswim

That's interesting. In Language for Thinking, the girl is crying because she dropped her strawberry ice cream. The Mum goes back, but the vendor has run out of strawberry ice cream. DD2's only suggestion was to wait until he made some more strawberry ice cream. She couldn't think of the girl having a different flavour, etc.

That's possibly 'rigidity of thought'

A bit Sheldony

That's the sort of reply my DS gives lougle or go to another shop for a strawberry ice cream! Or lately he'd start to say the girl would feel sad and explain why - because we are working on emotions. So wouldn't offer a solution but a learnt response iyswim?

He did the marble in basket. His reply to where would they look for marble was 'she'd probably look in the other persons basket where the marble is' however when told where it was he replied 'oh yeah'. Because his initial response lacks ToM but his logic can understand why he's wrong.

Interesting you say about the Sheldon thing star as my dad always says my DS reminds him of Sheldon from BBT!

Yes, she's very rigid. Yesterday with her yoyo, she just couldn't bring it to me because she couldn't break away from the thought that she had to hide it to 'presentation Nanny and Grandad'and she 'didn't have 3 hands'to hide it. (The string was trailing from the yoyo.'

When Nanny and Grandad phoned the other day, they said something pleasant and asked how she was. She said 'you are actually wasting my play time.'

With the actual Sally-Ann test her answer was 'she expected it to be in the basket because it is her basket' -I think she totally misses the point of the treat. I'm almost certain she said she expected it to be in her rucksack because it's hers rather than because that's where she left it.