Senco said my suggested punishment , for ds1, could be 'emotional abuse'.

[Oblomov]

Ds1(nearly 10). Aspergers.
Trouble in the summer, he spent money on internet.
Rude and shows me little respect, answering me back etc.

He is seeing the school counsellor, who I am not that impressed with.

He had a squint, and wore glasses 24/7 for 5 years. Then, this summer, he was told he only need to wear them for close up work. Not 24/7.
He lied to his teacher telling her he didn't need to wear his glasses anymore, at all. Even though I sent in a note, saying, close up work, which he didn't give to her.
He wasn't wearing them at all.I found out. Happened again.
I told him, if he couldn't be trusted to wear them, for close up work, he would have to go back to wearing them 24/7 again.

So yesterday I found out he hadn't worn them for 3 days.

I told him he would have to wear them 24/7. As agreed. He cried and pleaded. I said no. I will talk to Dad. I left the room. He ran after me, crying and pleading. No I said.

Then he pleaded and pleaded and I lost my cool. I really shouted. "Enough I said, you will wear them, because I have said so. That's is the end of it".

(He is very vain, hates wearing glasses and was the only boy who wore glasses in his year. He has been teased about it.)

"I knew you would do this. Shout at me. The counsellor said you would. She told me that you are unfair and unjust to me. "

That pushed me over the edge. Now I've got the counsellor undermining my parenting.

He is a martyr. Thinks that I am too tough on him. Whatever he has told the counsellor. He thinks she has said that she believes him, she is validating his feelings that I treat him unfairly.

She may not have said that. But that is what he THINKS.

Dh came home.

Ds is very vain recently. and has grown his hair longer. All the boys now flick their fringes, regularly and think this is cool.

Dh says , I told you that I wouldn't put up with you being rude to mummy. The way you speak to her is not ok. You don't treat her nicely, or with respect.

You have now been seeing the counsellor for 6 weeks, and it isn't getting any better. I told you that if this continued, that I would cut your hair. Cut the long fringe off. Because I know you love it. You don't seem to care about losing tv or dvd's, but you do care about your hair. But I told you that I would. Shave your head ( we always used to get the clippers out and shave dh, ds1 and ds2, on a long setting, an inch long).

I threatened this to you, shaving your head. And you've been rude to mummy again.
Dh said, ' if you are not careful, I really am going to shave you head boy. You need to think about this.

Ds1 was upset in school. Not himself, said teacher. He told her that daddy had threatened to shave his head.
Senco called me in.
Saying that if we did, he would never forgive us. And that we would have nowhere left to go, with punishments.

She said "it could be considered as emotional abuse"

I do hear what she is saying, about him hating it so much, he would never forgive. And I do appreciate the bit of, if we did do it, we would have nowhere left to go.

But I took offence, or didn't like her comment about it being 'emotional abuse'

Or do you think she is right?

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/225699/SFR30-2013_Text.pdf

We have already talked to optician about contacts. I went to the effort because ds begged me to ask. Optician said near 11. Trial next year. Ds just putting them in. But then ds said didn't like the idea. I wear them occasionally. I said I would help him.

I applied for statement. He is no SA+. He is not SA. He has no IEP. Senco says he has no needs at school. So SA refused. Nothing's changed. Why would they assess him, if I re-applied?

If you've applied for a statement can't you appeal? At tribunal from what I've been told the LA has to get Ed Psyches etc in to assess to prove that all is ok. Does DS have professionals who have already assessed him who can support your case?

Sounds like you've tried so many things already. It must be really frustrating and disheartening.

Why would I appeal Twinkle?
On what basis?
Post diagnosis, (that school said I would never get). EP was refused. Even though my diagnosis letter suggested it. I pushed and pushed. Finally I got it. EP saw ds. She had an initial talk to me. Then she went to meet Senco. Came back and said he was "fine". Her report mentioned no extra support needed.
No. I have no professionals to support my case.
Guess it must just be me then. With my munchausens

It's not just you. It really isn't.

I applied for statutory assessment and I appalled. I don't see that I need grounds to appeal other than i disagree.My son has different issues to yours though as he is failing at school.

If your son is being seen by the senco there must be a reason? My son would never see my nt son. Three separate year teachers have approached her as they think he is dyslexic. She never followed any of this up ever.

Senco will never see my nt son I mean

I have not read all of this thread but wanted to say I feel for you all. My (ASD, LD) son reacted very badly when I became ill and disappeared off to hospital for some time, returning not to my former self but a weak ill useless Mummy who could not run after him or take him out! Instead of being understanding ds ( 9) at the time, became incapable of doing anything for himself and became very angry aggressive and awkward -more so than normal that is. He even took a knife to me - fortunately too blunt to do more than bruise. I think it was his way of reacting to a difficult situation. Poor maternal health and a high needs disabled child is not an easy mix, and frankly his quality of life must have dropped dramatically. Add to that the difficulties with change and inability to see things through another persons eyes and I think his behaviour was trying to get his old life and security back! It helped to see his behaviour as trying to tell me through action - he did not want this new poorly Mum! It was not personal, but it was hard to not take it personally. The other thing with illness is that it can be hard to read through the lines IYKWIM, as all your little bit of energy goes in surviving. Its very unfair and illogical when a child with perfectly good legs refuses to go upstairs to collect his own socks (or whatever) and insists someone who cannot walk do it for them after all!! Illness can make it hard to have the energy to step back and re-assess.

Gradually things have improved for us. One of the things that helped (apart from getting slowly better) was respite from the social services disabled children's team. Its only once a month but is helpful to us all. It may be worth asking for a carers assessment as this may help access support. Your illness is being made worse/made harder to control due to your caring role. They may be able to refer to services or suitable charities (like the AS social club a friends child has blossomed within) or even give direct payment to employ a carer to allow you to rest or avoid a particularly stressful interaction such as homework time. Alternatively the adult team may be able to assess your needs (I have no experience of support from the adult team).

I think its fine to dislike the disability (that our children did not ask for or want, and make their lives so hard) or dislike the effects of our illnesses on our families.

The other thing I wanted to say was that sometimes things get so bad that a rescue operation is needed, and plans need to be made! I see those are underway, and I hope you will start to get better support and better health. Ds currently has a non Christmassy Lego advent calendar to reward a certain target, (! know its not advent but its a good way to have a small reward) which is working at the moment.

DS1 was seen by an LEA EP in year 3, another LEA EP in year 5, a private EP in year 5, another LEA EP for statementing in year 6 and again for the tribunal hearing 6 months later and another private EP before tribunal. He is now placed in indi ss after the LA conceded at the hearing. It is crap. You find a way to keep going.

I had all the MBP crap with DS1's first school who reported me to SS. Right up to the tribunal hearing the LA disputed the diagnosis of ASD based on the teachers most recent descriptions that he had suddenly become the life and soul of the party.

SA was refused, twice, on the basis that the school said that all was fine.

Fight battles you can win.

I don't know which battles are worth fighting.
Seen co only sees me because I keep going to her with problems. But they are home problems. She referrred me on re the £305 spent internet, and downloading of the joy of sex. but was told they wouldn't come because it was a home problem, not school.
He is not failing academically. He is top of his class. And very well behaved. So you see, there are no school problems.

Has your DS got a formal diagnosis of aspergers?

Also I am interested that it was Dad who ordered the hair shaving and you upheld it. Is that a pattern or a one off? You already said have a lot of parenting courses behind you - has he done any?

What I meant about the AS, it is a wide spectrum, what are his needs according to the diagnosis?

You persevered, despite opposition, in getting a diagnosis.

You can do it. But you have to believe that you are right and not doubt yourself.

This was actually one of the most difficult things for PhD students that I knew, me included. We used to talk in the student bar about how, to survive emotionally, you had to develop to quickly develop an absolute faith in your own beliefs because others were going to slag you off. If they didn't slag you off, it meant you were being ignored and had failed to make an impact.

I get the sense that you are maybe thinking 'I know he has AS because he has a diagnosis (but what if that diagnosis is wrong - school don't believe there is a problem) and so when he is 'naughty', I should treat him as I would an NT child'.

Don't let doubt creep in. Say 'I KNOW he has AS' full stop. You don't need a diagnosis to justify your belief. When he is naughty, treat him like an AS child.

I know people who have AS DC who are statemented because they have AS. They often have no problems at school whatsoever - top of the class or G&T - that would be picked up by teaching staff.

tbh it can sometimes be easier to get a (crap) statement with no top-up funding and naming the current school - ie all provision/cost remains the same but the child has legal protection in case all is less well as they progress through the educational system. If the LA fight the appeal, they run the risk that you may end up with a good statement that will cost to implement.

Passed is the second poster, atleast, to question my husband.
A poster previously asked if he was controlling.
What makes you think that? That's one hell of a leap of an assumption!!

My husabnd and I are in total agreement. On most thngs actually.
He is not controlling. He is totally loving and the boys ADORE him.
Ok , so my husband suggested it.
Why do you thnk he did? Because he was DISTRAUGHT at coming home , most evenings, for the last 3-4 years, to hear me sobbing.
For me ringing him at work saying " I have shouted again. he is driving me mad. I am not sure how much more of this I can cope with".

My husband cares for me so much, it pains him so much that ds1 treats me so badly.

Yes we know that we have got ourselves into a vicious cycle.
No punishement seems to bother ds1. But we didn't know what else to do.

AND what sort of ogre's and shit parents do you think we are?

I spend my whole fucking life, considering ds1. Going to meetings with school. Reading things.
Thinking and thinking and thinking. Trying to work him out. Why does he think this way? What is driving this. Why? Why? Why? Trying to understand what makes him tick.
How I can help him? How I can help him generally, but also so it benefits me.

I talk to him. Try and get him to open up to me. Try and get him to communicate. AT ALL.
Thsi boy, like most Aspergers boys , is in a world of his own. He admits it. He likes being on his own. In his own world. He doesn't liek talking.
Whereas I could chat for england !!
He has no desire to share anything. He can not express it. And even if he could . He has no desire to include anyone.

I ask about friendships. Try, round about ways to find out whats going on in his brain.

We have calm chats. Let me help you, I beg.
Dh talks to him. Kindly.

Do you honestly think that we do nothing but shout and punish.
What about all the reserach, the talkign ,the thinking, the calm chats and the cuddles and the trying to work him out?

Did you seriously, for one milli-second, think that I wasn't doing all of that alongside the shouting and punishemnts?

Please give me some bl**dy credit.
I work my tits off and am atleast TRYING.

When dh had some insight. Into the fact that the hair really bothered him. I thought it was fucking ingenious. I agreed completely. I knew dh was right. Finally we had found somethng that ds really cared about. And we were hoping that this punishment threat would encourage him to atleast speak to me nicely.

Now you may think we were very misguided. Admittedly.

And many have said, well punishments aren't workign. True. Do you think we didn't know that? That they weren't working? But we didn't know what else would work.

Alonngside the punishements, we were workign VERY hard to atleast try and get inside his head.

I have him in our bed, on a sunday morning. Cuddling him. Begging him to tell me whats going on, so we can work on it together.

This whole thead has portrayed me as some sort of monster.

And my husband as an even worse one.
Please don't criticise my huband. Becasue it is un-warranted.

Christ, if only you knew !!!

OP - I know how it feels to have your back up against a wall, and you both seem to be exploring, exploring, exploring on how to help your DS - it must be so bloody exhausting - you sound bloody exhausted and at the end of your rope.

One thing that possibly struck me in your last post - and forgive me if I'm on the wrong track, I am in no way criticising - but I feel from that last post that you are fighting against his condition, in your utmost wish to help what you might actually be doing is not accepting that he IS in his own world and he doesn't have the inclination to talk etc. You desperately want to connect with him as a mum and dad but in your attempts to connect you're actually driving a wedge between you and your DS and driving yourself into the ground. He is who he is - can you take that and work with it rather than against it?

You are NOT a monster - I don't think anyone sees that - what they do see (certainly from your initial post) is that your back is up against a wall from your perspective right now and you want to try anything in desperation including something that would have been wrong.

People consider stuff that's not on the up and up when they are in desperation. You haven't actually don't it though..and that shows you are not a monster. Even if you had, you could be forgiven for making such a miss-step. We're all fucking up here and there in an attempt to help our children - but to me you've gotten yourself into a very very negative cycle and something needs to be don't to at least give you a chink of light so you can turn your thinking around.

Of course you’re not a monster! Blimey if I was a monster for the parenting mess-ups I’ve made I’d have green skin, claws and breathe fire by now -- I wish

You were wondering why parenting courses don’t seem to work for you. Most of the parenting courses I’ve done (I think four, including two for super-challenging / SN) have started off with a focus on “positive parenting” – you know, joint attention, child-led play, descriptive commenting – and then moved on to the more parent-led stuff, how to do praise, how to do rewards, ignoring, negative consequences (natual and logical) and time-out.

And one thing that I’ve noticed is that the more stressed and tired or unwell I feel, and the more worried I feel about DS’s behaviour, the harder I find it to focus on the child-led and positive parenting, and the more I try to go directly to the parent-led stuff. But in reality that doesn’t work for me us, too much parent-led is very counter-productive for us. Then I have to go back to basics, to really build up the child-led approach and forget about consequences. Even to put aside my own goals for my DS and just do whatever it takes to maintain a good relationship with him.

It’s as if I went on those courses looking for a magic button that would make my DS do what I want him to do. But what I learned on the courses is there is no magic button. No matter how much I “understand” him, I cannot always use my understanding to make him do what I think is right. I can’t “get inside his head” in order to control him.
Sure, I can nudge him along a bit – quite a lot in fact. But he is his own person, with feeling and opinions and priorities that are different from mine, and the older he gets, the more I have to respect that even if I don’t always like it.

So if your DS loves Minecraft then maybe that is just something to enjoy with him .

You poor thing. You sound like fab parents but possibly a bit intense. You know how aspieness is described as a more advanced form of maleness and you know how grumpy men get when girlfriends, mothers, people at work get 'needy' and wanting to talk through stuff well... I think I'm saying that perhaps you are doing good parenting a bit much??? At school he knows exactly what he is doing. There's a fact, you learn it, reproduce it and no one aks you too much how you feel about it.

Crikey, your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Is he possibly really worried deep deep down that you might get dangerously ill but doesn't want to articulate it?? But then he's going to resent you asking. Ahhhhhhhhhh! I think stick with the counselling at least its something and, with respect to other posters, I get you point about the statement although some outside input on emotional literacy might help. the Blobs scheme and Talkabout by Speechmark publishing are both very good.

Well just sending you honks as have nothing useful to add but just you have a fantastic but Very Difficult child. At least you and your hubby are united and that's worth more than gold.

I'm with the last two posters wholeheartedly. Please read them Oblomov. Everyone is trying to help you. Nobody knows your DP to make judgements, and nobody is judging, they are just asking questions.