Can we carry on talking about MNSN til we get a Chat Thread sorted out?

[EllenJaneisstillnotmyname]

Just wanted to link to this before the other thread got full.

See, I find the statistic really useful. I used it a lot to compare secondary schools. If the number of DC with SEN was significantly below local average, I knew they were likely to be inexperienced or have the wrong ethos. My DS's school has DC with SEN at around the local average, no neither inexperienced nor struggling to cope.

Also it puts the league table positions into perspective. If a school has hardly any DC with SEN, then you would expect their GCSE results to be higher, without that meaning the teaching as any better. So a school with average to high SN and good GCSEs as well would be doing really well.

The local very highly performing comp in the leafy MC area has very few DC with SEN, due mainly to having a very snobby attitude. Very, very high league table position, but shite with SEN, so IMO, shite full stop. Schools, like society, should be measured on how they treat their most vulnerable.

@StarlightMcKenzie

Interesting question zzzzz. Is it because their Ofsted rating has to take that into consideration?

The information is probably 'out there' in the public domain through funding information and FOI requests, but I do wonder why it is made so explicit.

Know I'm butting in but I think it's one of the few stats all schools have gathered about them. They're used for funding purposes: the fewer free school meals claimed = less money for the school budget. Ditto children with SN.

It's interesting to do a little anecdotal research into how many of those high performing, outstanding primaries with mostly level 5 SATS results in the leafy suburbs and low FSM/SEN numbers get those figures because those snobby parents pay through the nose for years of private tutoring.

Ask around - the results will often suprise you and leave you wondering how much of the credit for the high SATS figures is down to the school & and how much to a veritable army of private tutors. The impact is especially noticable in areas that still have state Grammer schools.

According to the Daily Fail, if you allow Tarquin and Fuenella to associate with poor or special needs kids you'll ruin their life chances. Can't say I'm bovvered

'It's a way of helping you to choose your friends, zzzzz '

Ain't that the truth

I'd love an SN:chat board :o

A decade or so ago, when the concept of "value added" was dropped into league tables in an attempt to ameliorate the fact that schools with a high proportion of middle class children with no significant barriers to learning, FSM was the measure that was used to assess this against.

I think FSM and SEN are now used for the various pupil premium calculations.

I think I've officially lost my marbles (DS1's grumbing and distracting me)

I'll finish my sentence.

ameliorate the fact that schools with a high proportion of middle class children with no significant barriers to learning should be at the top of the league tables, with a high proportion of pupils performing above "average"

I can't find the rationale, only that they have to do it.

I do know that there is a big drive for parents whose children are entitled to FSM to register them as such, even if they don't want the meal, because unless they do, they don't go in the stats and the school doesn't get the £600 for them.

Helen, I've said this once already today: There's no such thing as butting in here. Welcome to MNSN

@lougle

Helen, I've said this once already today: There's no such thing as butting in here. Welcome to MNSN

Why thank you!

It's not every day you get welcomed to the site you run - treasure it

I agree that the rationale is that it makes sense of the league tables. If you see School A has great results, school B has average results and school C has rubbish results, you may feel that the schools' desirability is ranked: A, B, C

However, it may be that schools A and C have no children with FSM, none with SEN and none with EAL (Another group which is identified) while maybe school B has 79% of each...

In that case, to have 'average' results, school B has done incredibly well, school A is 'as expected' and school C is seriously underperforming. In that case you may decide to send your child to school B because it obviously has a great ethos if children with FSM, SN and EAL can all perform well.

Bearing in mind that these measures are so incredibly crude as to be laughable.

You could have a wonderfully modern school close to a big multinational company which has drafted in lots of Chinese employees. In general, the Chinese work ethic is well documented. So you could have a school which has very successful children given £600 per pupil because they've successfully mastered 2 languages by the age of 5 *

*Disclaimer: I'm sure that cultural diversity would extend beyond just 2 nationalities in the school and I'm also sure that not all of the children who have Chinese as a first language would be high achieving. I am also aware that it is possible in the said fictional scenario that bears no relation to a past or current living entity, that a child in this situation could also have SEN, and be eligible for FSM.

I think you've covered your backside incredibly well, lougle

Yes, the measures are laughable, but it does at least mean that as the government are insistent on publishing the league tables, that at least the school is put into some sort of context.

It helps that my backside is quite small, Galena

Lucky you! I like cake too much

I do find it useful when looking at schools tbh.
Dd (nt) starting secondary next year. The thought of my daughter being in one of those schools full of ... white middle class high achievers makes me vomit a little bit in my mouth.

I think we have to accept that we are still at the "Rosa Parks" stage of development as regards disability rights in society generally (education is only the start of a lifetime of struggle for many). Over the course of my lifetime I've seen massive improvements over general societal attitudes to racism and tbh I see it as a similar battle.

In Canada as late as the 1970's many of our children would have been forcibly sterilised, or removed to an "out of sight" institution here in the UK. Now our children are visible in the streets, in local schools etc, etc.

I intend to be one helluva campaigning Granny, once I'm done raising my own DS, as I'm determined to move things forward for the generations to come.

The daily fail attitude will not prevail (wanders off to borrow some F4J underpants)

In the meantime if I here one more word about differentiation or personalisation of the curriculum (phonics flash cards for a kid with visual tracking issues is NOT successful differentiation!) I'll scream! Education has never been more regimented and "one size fits all"

Oooh Taggie has just inspired me, from her thread title.

For those who don't like honking, we could take on the airplane stewardess stylee 'Brace! Brace!'

So whenever we have a horrible time coming up, we can all yell 'Brace, Brace!' in support

What do you think, a keeper?

bochead you are so right. It's like I said to someone 'inclusion doesn't just mean letting the token SN child in and then carrying on as normal.'

Simple solutions which seem mighty logical are treated like the next revolution!

I mean, what a simple idea to allow a child with SN to access an activity at their developmental age rather than their chronological age (with appropriate support). It seems this idea is quite 'radical'