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School pressuring for ds to return to school - Star, Agnes and other helpful people

131 replies

claw4 · 07/11/2012 16:45

Ds hasnt been to school since emergency A&E mental health assessment a few weeks ago.

He was assessed by CAMHS in A&E, after threats of wanting to kill himself etc.

CAMHS told me to decide on a daily basis whether ds was able to cope with school and if school had concerns about him not attending then to phone her.

School receptionist phoned me yesterday and asked when ds would be going back to school. I told her i had already passed on CAMHS number to SENCO and if she had concerns then to phone and speak with CAMHS.

She said they had and CAMHS had said it was up to me to decide on a daily basis, and apparently CAMHS had also said that ds would be ok to attend some days.

She told me that ds was missing education and his absence was being marked as unauthorised and that the EWO would be informed. She asked that i phone everyday to tell them if ds would be attending.

So they expect that ds can go from needing me to go immediately to pick him up from school and take him for an emergency mental health assessment, to returning to school as if nothing has happened.

They expect me to phone the school receptionist daily, which i did this morning and its bloody ridiculous. Conversation goes "ds wont be in today" school receptionist "why is that" me "he wants to kill himself" school receptionist "oh ok, thanks for phoning"

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sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 11:02

Thank you keepon and I will certainly look into that today - even if it's just to gather contact details. I really need to get this moving quickly.

Thank you claw You have just described the exact situation that is in my head, so don't think you've scared me even more or unnecessarily. I will of course accept the offer of their help and I simply wanted to forward details of all my efforts of contacting the school, with no reasonable response, other then "dd needs to get over these anxieties, start being independant and myself getting a life" being just 3 things I could remember off the top of my head.

These emails show, over the past 3 school years, education systems have let my very vulnerable child down and if I hadn't of intervened, she would of turned into a little girl with more worries than any child should at 11.

Oooooops, i'm so sorry Claw, I just realised this is all on your thread Blush

claw4 · 11/11/2012 11:06

Willow oh yes i have told him, how proud i am of him and that he has done the right thing. He would tell me he was 'scared' of saying 'bad things' about school, especially to the school.

I think it helped when he came out of school crying everyday, i would take him straight back into the class teacher and stand there with him. I would start the conversation for him, then prompt him to take over. When i could see that he was 'glazing' over as he hadnt understood the question or the explaination that the teacher had given him, I would ask him 'did you understand that', when the answer was 'no' i was then telling him, he needed to say 'i dont understand' and i then asked the teacher to rephrase or make it simple so he could understand.

I think seeing how it was ok to be assertive and that he didnt get into trouble for speaking out (or at least while i was there) helped him in some way.

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claw4 · 11/11/2012 11:25

Sweet, this is the beauty of MN, you start a thread and not only does it help you, it help others too, im more than happy to share this thread with you Grin We are almost in exactly the same situation, i think im just a few weeks ahead of you in the 'process'.

I would be asking school in writing, the purpose of this referral as you want to know exactly what it is you are agreeing to before you agree. If the purpose of this referral is to establish needs, it has to be, as this is what the EIT team do. Then why are school opposing your request for SA, as establishing needs is EXACTlY the purpose of SA!

You do not have to agree to a CAF or TAC. SW asked me to agree to one of these my response was basically i have already applied for SA to establish what ds's needs are, so a meeting is pointless.

Another point, have the school asked for a EP assessment?

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sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 11:36

Thanks Claw. Yes, we definitely sound like i'm a few weeks behind you in this crappy process.

Well as she's emailing me on a weekend i'll email her today and request the information now.

I'm just amazed they can say we need to assess her needs (in getting her to school) then not sending anything in to help the lea decide to assess or not. I haven't thought of it like that before now.

I take things and people as I find them. I always believe what they are saying so in the initial phonecall, when I was told what would be happening (that someone would come in and help dd and us as a family would then benefit), I was quite happy. It's only when it's been pointed out to me than I actually ''got'' what was being suggested.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 11:39

Ooops, the Ed Psych had to come to the house to assess her a few weeks ago, as he'd previously made an appointment during school time, but i've let them down last minute as she's not been in.

claw4 · 11/11/2012 11:53

That was schools response to me 'we have made a referral to get your family some help'. Dont get me wrong, that is fine, if you feel your family needs some help.

I didnt feel 'my family' needed any help, it was ds who needed the help in the school, not my family at home, which is why i applied for SA!

Has your dd had any expert assessments?

and as Star says always make sure your questions are not defensive. You simply want to know to whom ie name and address of where you are being referred and the purpose of this referral.

EIT team you can decline the referral, child protection you can not, but either way it is standard procedure to ask your agreement anyhow.

If EIT team, you can then ask them before accepting the referral how they think they can help and the purpose of their involvement.

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claw4 · 11/11/2012 11:55

Do you have a copy of EP report?

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sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 12:08

EP report hasn't come back yet - he even questioned if I wanted a copy or not?! (dear me!!)

Yes, I have used both yours and Starlights suggestions, and it does lookalot better than what I was thinking. Only in a way that I don't know how to word things rather than it being a snotty letter.

I've sent all details I had, which included ind. psychologist at Dyslexia Action (who noted she needed me when anxious), Camhs letter to say she shows physical signs of anxious behaviour (who DD admitted to picking herself), a letter from comm paed to say what she feels as well as private & nhs SALT reports, who also noted dd's anxious and childish ways. Then i'm seeing her gp this week again. Think thats it..

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/11/2012 12:14

A copy? Surely you shoukd be sent a draft for comments?

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/11/2012 12:17

Take out all emotive language. Start with concrete and objective bullet points, then build the language around them.

Start with the premise that currently YOU and ONLY YOU are charged with the LEGAL responsibility for your child's welfare and education and as such require all available information to make decisions for them.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 12:20

Is this for the sake of the details of the referral Starlight or for the EP report?

Sorry, I got myself lost there somehow Confused

Do I put that in this initial letter or once they come back with probably more excuses?

claw4 · 11/11/2012 12:38

Sweet, would i would say, is lets assume that the purpose of this referral is to put the spotlight on you and blame you. Lets assume they are saying your dd does not attend school because you are 'over anxious' and this is rubbing off on your dd.

How are you going to prepare for this?

What evidence do THEY have of this (ie they will use anything from your gp against you) I would also assume that school have made a referral to SS so they can get their hands on YOUR medical history.

What evidence do YOU have to counteract this ie that school is responsible for your dd's anxiety, not you.

Is your dd still under CAMHS?

Is your GP saying that school is responsible for your dd's anxiety or that attending school aggrevates her anxiety etc?

I have mountains of reports from experts, giving hundreds of recommendations that school are not following, i thought it would just be common sense that school not following these recommendations was the cause of ds's anxiety, but its not. What you need is for someone to say this.

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KOKOagainandagain · 11/11/2012 13:08

Don't mean to depress you but I may be years rather than weeks ahead of you. Sad. It was 2009 when an emergency referral was made to SS by the senco and head of one of DS's primary school. I also refused to complete a CAF - the head would agree to a meeting to discuss things and then attempt to use the meeting to complete a CAF. The head was a woman and so the deputy head (male) had to be present. He was my personal bouncer - he took no part in the meetings, his presence was never explained and he would not respond if addressed directly - I had to pretend he was not there!

SS are not stupid - the school had done the ususal 'no anxiety/problems at school - must the the parents. SS told us they can tell almost immediately if the family is in trouble and needs help and that this is impacting on the child. They are extremely annoyed that schools constantly lie to them and pretend all is well at school when this is clearly not the case and are just passing the buck (or pound). IF SS believe this then they will be on your side not the side of the school.

In 2009 I had nothing - no agreement to assess, denial of problems, no diagnosis of anything and this is why (not personal but bureaucratic and financial reasons) I was on this pathway. You need to justify (provide objective evidence) of why you need to be on an alternative pathway.

I spent many a year attempting to convince the powers that be that they had made a mistake - you will never convince them - subjective opinion of parents carries no weight.

My utterly fantastic rhetoric failed 100% - the LEA still confidently refused assessement. DS's statement may be crap but he has been assessed, been given a statement rather than a NIL and has home tuition through EATOS. There is no suggestion that any of this is due to issues of parenting. But I am still the same person who was referred to SS - the only real difference is the objective evidence that I have collected.

Of course, come tomorrow I may be facing similar pressure to get DS 'reintegrated' into ms high school.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 13:31

Ok, i'll try my best to answer.

How are you going to prepare for this?

What evidence do THEY have of this (ie they will use anything from your gp against you) I would also assume that school have made a referral to SS so they can get their hands on YOUR medical history.

If they can access MY details without me agreeing then they will see that since the school started again, the Dr has had to try me on various medication (due to having extra pressures to support dd) which will coincide with evidence that I have to suggest it's all me thats trying to work this out and school have refused everything. - By that I mean when my tablets were prescribed it will correspond to a date I have in my 'evidence' with them ignoring my requests of help - hope that makes sense.

If you mean will DD Doctor have that it's mum who's anxious and it would be rubbing off then no, I don't believe they will see that in her files. I have taken her to the dr's twice since september - purely due to her school anxiety - and got an appointment this week to get a note to cover sickness from school and so the dr can ask dd how she feels directly. Other than getting the referrals sorted DD is not a child who gets taken to the dr's for anything and everything.

What evidence do YOU have to counteract this ie that school is responsible for your dd's anxiety, not you.

I have emails, notes and dates when i've spoken to school. I have my mobile phone record of the numerous calls made to various services (ie lea, school, dr's, camhs) and I have recently been given dd diary that says how much she hates the school and she can't cope and she has drawn sad faces.

She is a very happy child at home and even her 9yo brother would say that - maybe I need to give him lots of q's on a paper and get him to answer them.

Is your dd still under CAMHS?

Yes, she is going for regular therapy sessions, we are just starting out with the fear of the noise

Is your GP saying that school is responsible for your dd's anxiety or that attending school aggrevates her anxiety etc?

I don't want to put words into their mouth but they've said they will confirm to the school why dd is off but as I can't read between the lines then I struggle sometimes.

I have mountains of reports from experts, giving hundreds of recommendations that school are not following, i thought it would just be common sense that school not following these recommendations was the cause of ds's anxiety, but its not. What you need is for someone to say this.

I have all reports with clear recommendations that school haven't even acknowledged, let alone work with her. I have emails from conversations that state dd is due to get 1 hr per week of extra maths and english but thats all.

A very recent report says DD views about what she dislikes about school.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 13:50

Keepon, This road is worse than anything I've experienced before and can't imagine what it'll be like when we've been on it for years Shock

devientenigma · 11/11/2012 14:07

I am also years on down the road. Educated by home tutor provided by the LA also but could still be forced into reintegration into a school. Unsure which one, when DS has always been SS from 2. His statement has been to 5 neighboring authorities and none can meet his needs. The LA SS which he is still registered at say they meet his needs.............how when he won't go and that's after they have also come home to try and get him there?! So this is the school they will name in part 4 for me to argue.

I think they are scared of parents wanting individual budgets> I know it's the only way forward with my DS.

devientenigma · 11/11/2012 14:09

sweet putting it bluntly the local river looks a good parking space for DS and me!!

It is horrid and I would never wish my life or DS's on my worst enemy but for some reason you plod on, hoping and praying.......

claw4 · 11/11/2012 14:22

Sweet, SW 'asked' me to sign a form giving her permission to contact my GP and CAMHS. If its child protection referral even though they are asking, you cannot refuse. I asked the purpose of contacting my GP and it was to ask if i have any mental health problems. (sorry if this seemed harsh, i do not doubt for one minute, that you had very good reasons etc) School cannot request info from your gp, hence involving SW who can, if you see what i mean. Which is why is important to establish whether you are being referred on child protection issue or not, so you know your rights.

I meant school will probably be saying it's mum who's anxious and its rubbing off on dd, not your GP. When you say school is responsible for anxiety and they do not agree with this, they counter attack, by blaming home.

Her diary is good evidence. Her telling your GP her worries about school, is good evidence. Any views your dd expresses about school is good evidence.

If CAMHS/GP will say worries are school related its brilliant evidence.

School not following recommendations isnt good evidence as such, as it backs up their arguement that these recommendations are NOT needed, in ds's case 'he is happy, coping well' etc without them. If they agree with these recommendations we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place. This is the centre of the whole arguement if you see what i mean.

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KOKOagainandagain · 11/11/2012 14:27

deviant we keep going because we have no choice Sad

Hate to use a saying from my childhood (mad JW parents) but 'eyes on the prize'. Used to mean tolerate crap (persecution) in this life and focus on everlasting life. I prefer my rewards in this life.

I hope you are waving not drowning (I'm not very good at reading between the lines or past exclamation marks).

devientenigma · 11/11/2012 14:50

Have to be honest keepon it's more just keep coming up for breaths.

Summer was really bad, DS won't leave the house or car, but we have to have all doors and windows shut and the lights on!! South facing sitting room was hot and bright enough without his obsessions. I was literally choking for air, so quite looking forward to winter Grin

But yeah Iv'e had all the accusations, etc etc but have spent the last few year proving it's DS needs that are not being acknowledged. Proved it within the system (not private) and they still continue to argue amongst themselves.

I am now going to seek private support as DS can't go on not having a life.........but then with him having down syndrome as well means he's already a second class citizen.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 19:20

So, as long as I find out exactly where I'm being referred to, I can refuse social work people but HAVE to give details to child protection issues.

Can they say the same about dh being anxious too. As they've not asked or referred to him yet.

Well she's certainly got some good evidence and on top of the asd anxiety. Her report referrs back to her being bullied and her not being able to forgive and forget - I'm presuming she talked about it at assesement. Could there be some kind of PTSD?

I should imagine they will agree its school once they've spoken to dd, so I have no concerns there. Even at any meetings we've had, I've made it clear its purely a school related issue.

Although school haven't listened to any recommendations they definitely can't say that she is coping. Going in for 9 days since September would make anyone question the support provided by the school. They've had an experienced teacher of asd telling them that she is acting different in various settings. They just don't have a bloody clue.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 19:22

Devient. It's awful that you feel that way. Your the one who he'll remember being there and pushing for him.

sweetteamum · 11/11/2012 19:23

Neither am I keep on. Quite pleased its not just me Hmm

claw4 · 11/11/2012 19:57

Sweet, EIT team according to their website, im assuming yours with be similar

"The Early Intervention Teams (EITs) in xxxxx were set up in xxxxxx to work with xxxx schools supporting children aged 3-16 who need extra help to thrive in school. There are four Early Intervention Teams covering all local authority linked schools in xxxxx, and each team serves a cluster of schools geographically located in different parts of xxxxx.

Each team is staffed by the following specialists:-
?A Team Manager (responsible for two teams)
?Educational Psychologists
?Behaviour Support Partners (including a Pupil Support Assistant)
?Education Welfare Officers
?AEN/SEN Partners
?SEN Advice and Moderation Partners
?Social Workers

Rationale

Prior to September xxxx the above professionals were based separately and a decision was made to co-locate them into multi-disciplinary teams.

The EITs were created in order to deal more effectively with the following:-
1.Children whose lack of progress at school stems from a number of different interrelated factors, that ideally should be addressed in a co-ordinated way.
2.Dealing with issues as soon as possible, to prevent more serious problems developing.
3.To help schools and teaching staff with problem-solving and to provide specialist guidance and support where this is needed. This will, at times, include training for school staff.

As well as dealing with children and families in terms of early intervention, team members will also work with such matters as supporting the statementing process, working with children in danger of exclusion, and those with serious attendance problems. EIT team members are also involved with a variety of projects and initiatives within xxxxx, and some are undertaking research projects within their area of expertise.

Child protection team website im assuming yours with be similar

This service is available to children and families in the xxxx borough where children are vulnerable because of family crises, severe relationship difficulties and/or developmental behavioural needs.

Social workers discuss difficulties with parents and children, speak to other professionals who know the child, and undertake an assessment of a family's need. They will then identify services to meet those needs, and then either give or arrange that help.

Child protection referrals are undertaken by these teams, and staff also offer support and guidance to anyone concerned about a child in the community.

The duty social workers will also look into cases where children may be at risk of harm, and take steps to protect children where this is necessary.

The aim of this work is to reduce the risks to the child. In a few cases where this is not possible, social workers apply to the Court for orders to protect children.

This service is split into two main teams. Each team provides the same services for families and children living in its area.

so you can see the difference between the two

EIT team could be quite helpful, depending on WHY you have been referred.

Child protection is quite different.

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claw4 · 11/11/2012 20:26

In 2010 school asked me whether they could refer to the EIT, i replied in writing stating yes i would be happy to meet with social worker. I didnt hear anymore about it, so thought school did not bother making the referral and i was in no rush to be referred to SS, so didnt chase it up.

School told social worker that i declined the referral, i didnt know this at the time, i recently found the note on school file. The reason they did this, was at the time they were supported my request for SA, so they must have figured they could not blame me and support my request for SA at the same time.

So referral to EIT is obviously 'voluntary' and school cannot refer without your consent.

School can make a 'referral' to child protection without your consent, although it is usually standard procedure for them to 'tell' you they are doing it. But this 'referral' is not a referral as such, it is based on allegations ie mum is responsible for anxiety. So school are saying your child is at risk from you, in a nutshell and SS carry out an 'investigation' of you and your family.

In my case school asked me whether they could make a referral to EIT, i agreed. When i followed this up in writing saying i was happy for referral to EIT team. They replied stating no its the xxxxx team (upon googling, i found it was the child protection team, school did not tell me this)

It would look 'unreasonable' of you to turn down an EIT referral, although you can. You cannot turn down a child protection 'referral'

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