School pressuring for ds to return to school - Star, Agnes and other helpful people

[claw4]

Ds hasnt been to school since emergency A&E mental health assessment a few weeks ago.

He was assessed by CAMHS in A&E, after threats of wanting to kill himself etc.

CAMHS told me to decide on a daily basis whether ds was able to cope with school and if school had concerns about him not attending then to phone her.

School receptionist phoned me yesterday and asked when ds would be going back to school. I told her i had already passed on CAMHS number to SENCO and if she had concerns then to phone and speak with CAMHS.

She said they had and CAMHS had said it was up to me to decide on a daily basis, and apparently CAMHS had also said that ds would be ok to attend some days.

She told me that ds was missing education and his absence was being marked as unauthorised and that the EWO would be informed. She asked that i phone everyday to tell them if ds would be attending.

So they expect that ds can go from needing me to go immediately to pick him up from school and take him for an emergency mental health assessment, to returning to school as if nothing has happened.

They expect me to phone the school receptionist daily, which i did this morning and its bloody ridiculous. Conversation goes "ds wont be in today" school receptionist "why is that" me "he wants to kill himself" school receptionist "oh ok, thanks for phoning"

achillea Who is your post to?

I wondered that too

I have moments when I wish we could decamp to a remote scittish island where DS could sail, wander around, help other people a bit and just Be with no more carping and bother from other people.

Claw, is it worth you opting out of the educational system for your son and home eding him? You are right, he shouldn't go back to school while he is in the state he is. What are the other educational options near you?

This makes me want to start a school for the mini claws out there.

Honk honk. Keep strong and so glad that mini claw is coming back to his normal self. Mine shuts down and goes all tight lipped and anxious and then won't say whats wrong. It was really bad a couple of weeks ago. Its so awful when they are so different to their normal selves.

That was a genuine post to you claw4.

I hope claw doesn't mind me answering for her but iirc there IS a suitable and safe school placement, but it is only available on the basis of her ds having a statement that names it.

so ina mine isn't a claw, he's an enigma, would you accept him? and if so how would you anticipate getting him there?

(just curious)

Sorry Achillea, its just your post threw me because of some of the comments.

none of your children liked going there ds is my first child to attend this school.

The medical services (CAMHS etc) are implying that school is the right place for him - if it isn't, then why have they come up with that conclusion? They havent reached this conclusion. Ds was seen in A&E by CAMHS who concluded that i should decide if attending school will cause him more distress, if i think it will then dont send him, as the worries he expressed to them were school related. I will decide on a daily basis, as CAMHS are not here to decide his mental state on a daily basis, hence they have asked me to, until he can be assessed by CAMHS again next week.

Have you seen the reports? Yes CAMHS provide both myself and school with an A&E report stating that school triggered his worries and worries triggered his self harming and thoughts of wanting to die.

You need to get to the bottom of this, how are the assessments wrong and can you prove that they are? what assessments?

It will be best for you to appear to work 'with' the school I have tried to work with school for 2 years. They continue to deny that ds suffers with anxiety or self harms. They continue to refuse to follow any recommendations made by experts. They have reported me to child protection as they do not believe that ds suffers with anxiety or self harms, they think i am making it up. I will not work with school anymore, im done.

You ought to try to take control of his computer time He rarely uses a computer. He has a laptop, which has stuck in his drawer for about 6 months now.

Games can be addictive and if he is addicted this needs to be sorted out. It is possible that his behaviour is a result of addiction - he could be sabotaging school and self-harming in order to stay at home and feed the addiction. Would you say that's a possibility? He rarely plays computer games, doesnt have much interest in them.

I know it's so long ago now . . but, my dd is having that same problem claw

School hadn't put anything in place - although they said they would.

As she's so 'compliant' in school they were insisting that she wasn't anxious at all - ironic really as she's so anxious about going in that she can't attend now.

She desperately wants to go into school but when it comes to it she just can't face it

When we discuss school (or even the thought of school) makes her unable to sleep - she's already up between 1.00-5.30 each day as it is

she self harms by picking at her scalp, she picks spots till they cause marks and twists things in general.

I certainly can'teven suggest someone in authority to come and collect her as she'd happily go but we'd live with the consequences.

I'd be more than happy and willing for the lea to put home tuition in place (and i'm even happy to go along with their referral to social services). However, i've been told the only option available is a big meeting between experts to decide what they feel is best for a child they do not know or understand, then we have to go through certain stages before we get to statutory assessment. I know they are talking rubbish but they're happy to spout more rubbish about what they HAVE to try before they go on to the next thing.

By the time all their wait and see approaches are over dd will be an adult with no schooling etc and be labelled lazy etc etc etc

Inaflap, no i dont think it is, although this is something i might consider at a later date. Usually ds loves to learn, he loves to read, he loves math, English etc, etc, he even wants desperately to interact with other kids, he just doesnt know how.

I believe ds could truly flourish in the right school, a school who understand and meet his needs. I dont think that is too much to ask. I have found a brilliant school, now all i need is a statement!

Although things might not turn out as i feel they should ie statement, i feel its a option ds needs to try, before home schooling.

Shutting himself away is exactly what ds did, its not like him to be like that with me. But i think he is starting to think, that i am not listening anymore or no one can help him. He has been crying out for help for 2 and half years and been in and out school, this is his 2nd school too and nothing ever improves for him. I think he has had enough

Sweettea, ds is exactly the same, he would go with whoever came to collect him, or at least he would of, up until now. Im not so sure about now.

He has finally started to speak out, instead of making excuses for his self harming. For 2 and half years, if you asked him how he got the cuts or scratches all over his body, he would say 'oh i did it playing football' or something similar. He wouldnt tell anyone, but me what he worried about. He has now started to tell SW, CAMHS, GP etc that he hurts himself deliberately and its because of his worries and the majority of what he worries about is school.

Big meeting was also suggested to me and was given all the rubbish too, i stated unless school had now changed their minds and were willing to follow the recommendations made by experts, which they hadnt, as they are opposing my request for SA, what was the purpose of the meeting. Ive heard no more.

I am refusing to sit through another meeting of school telling me, ds isnt anxious, ds doesnt self harm, ds is happy in school and they are meeting his needs. Which is exactly what they tell all the experts. I can understand where school might get this from, as in A&E ds sat there being polite and pleasant, talking about how he cuts himself with scissors when he feels sad, how he wishes he was dead. School are waiting to see some sort of explosion or aggression or lashing out or disruptive behaviour, which is not going to happen.

Sweet, would also add i applied for SA without the backing of school, you could tell them the best way of establishing your dd (sorry said ds last time) needs is by assessing them ie SA, rather than a meeting.

To me and you that's very obvious. However the teaching staff at my dd school, as well as the lea don't seem to get that.

I've actually had an email this afternoon, from school. They want me to pass on doctors details and person at camhs. It's for the referral that they are doing for dd to social services. The simple thing is: they've got all these details. Would I need to give these details if I had a note to cover her time off from the dr, do you know.

claw - this probably is glaringly obvious (if so, sorry!) but have you told your DS that he is very brave to speak out? When my DS reached a point of refusing to go to school, I told him he had done the right thing and that speaking out as he did and saying he could cope no longer wasn't an act of despair but of courage - partly because the school was much more likely to listen to him than to me - the 'fussy mother' syndrome schools tend to assume! Clearly it is better when he uses words not actions like self-harming to express his unhappiness so that is obviously the way to go, but maybe if he feels empowered in some way, that might help? He is trying to take control of his life, isn't he? And the specialist teams need to help him to do so in a constructive not destructive way, but his reaction to a dreadful situation is logical in its own way.
And I do feel for you when you say how he always turns to you, will only talk to you, that you are his emotional support. Snap! It must be very hard for you when you feel he is angry with you too.

I did not have to pass on those details for a referral to be made to social services. What happened to us, was once social worker came, she asked me to sign a permission slip stating she could contact my GP and CAMHS.

Are they asking you to pass on details or asking for permission to contact?

Why are they referring to SS? and to which team? Disability team or child protection? I have found unless you are very direct and ask exactly who and why, they are very cagey.

The reason SW asked me for details of GP and CAMHS, is because she was from child protection and wanted to check to make sure i didnt have any mental health problems is the bottom line. SW was not forthcoming with that information, i had to ask specifically.

Even though im sure you have nothing hide, like me, be very, very, careful.

I definitely don't have anything to hide and they will find that as soon as dd school (for the last few years, actually) were very refusing of her difficulties and stress grew at home that I do infact have some difficulties with sleeping, anxiety & ocd. This is well documented in the dr's notes. However, if anyone got access to them, they would confirm that school are blaming me and I would have the back-up of the dr. The Dr seems to think my 'symptoms' will go as soon as support for my DD is been put in place.

I initially asked the school for the contact details, to the team at social services & early intervention team they had referred us to. I got an email back asking for further details from Camhs (if I did, could I pass them on) and was told that I would get the details the following day...I did not respond to that.

Then yesterday, Saturday (??) I received the email saying

"before the early intervention team can progress the referral, I need to pass them the name and contact details of:

DD GP (which they already have) and
Camhs Worker (They have the details already)

It then goes on to say

"If you could let me have these I will send them on - then as soon as a worker is allocated to you I will pass on the details so that you can send any relevant information"

Is it me or are they meaning to sound fucking patronising and expecting me to run round for them!!

Sorry, forgot to add, I was told after school had decided to do this referral and we have not signed/agreed to anything at all!!

We have (since) been informed, that when parents don't know the family are being referred it's usually down to a child protection issue - i'm not sure how true this is but they definitely don't want me having the details just yet. The funny thing is, we are not the stereotype of a ''typical'' family (as described online) who are in need of this service and quite frankly, i'm disgusted
that it even admits that online

While we have nothing to hide and will comply with any requests, I am going to reply and suggest they look at their school files and say i'm only prepared to discuss the situaion with someone who has the relevant experience, knowledge and understanding, of the difficulties dd faces.

Ask them for the contact name of who they have made/are making the referral to.

And request in writing that you see a copy of the referral before it goes.

This is the reply I got to those very questions starlight I'm almost ready to reply. Politely of course. I would of course say while I'm more than happy for people to come and support dd. however as a family we have lots of emotional support and back up and we certainly don't need advice on how to get her to school or how to parent better.

No, that sounds defensive. Instead ask them to justify themselves. 'What do you think they can offer to experienced parents with copious amounts of emotional support and behaviour skills that justifies such a referral?' You'd like to know before you can agree as you need to ensure you prioritise interventions in order of potential benefit to your dd.

But also be careful not to get their backs up too much otherwise they'll fight you simply to put you in your place.

I'm more tactful when I come to writing the letters. Although I must admit I'm usually like a bull in a china shop and tell people as I see it (yes, I'm possibly aspie too) lol

Thank you for those choice words that would of tool me am she to find

Wow! Typing on iPhone is not working this morning!

I will shortly find out the connection between EOTAS and the team that deal with requests for statements. DS's final statement is for 15 hours in the ms he has not been able to attend since September. So if they work in tandem I would expect EOTAS to shift to their off the shelf getting a 'refuser' into ms school.

However, they seem to operate with different policies. EOTAS don't accept a GP sick note as 'medical authorisation' and want a consultant letter. They will not authorise home tuition without a consultant letter which in my case was from DK. So EOTAS have accepted her authority and advice of 'no ms' and have been tyring to persuade him into an MLD special needs group. DS meets the legal criteria for lea home tution despite not meeting the policy criteria of the statementing team who can offer whatever crap they want and are not forced to take account of legal criteria until and unless forced to do so at Tribunal. The case worker can try to dismiss DK's report but the EOTAS staff are not able to dismiss because you just need authorisation from a consultant.

This contradiction can easily be seen at Tribunal and I do not think that it hurts your case at all that the LEA staff that share an office are simulaneously acting in contradictory ways. EOTAS staff have based their assessment of what DS needs on meeting him and attempting to interact with him. They are pushing the MLD unit because it would get him out of the house, the teaching would still be 1:2 but he could socialise with the other children at breaktime and believe he should be taught 'functional skills' rather than follow the NC GCSE route. If they change their tune now it will obviously be on the basis of what is written in the final statement (which is being challenged) not on DS himself.

If I were you and it is financially possible I would make a private appointment with a consultant developmental paediatrican and submit their report/letter to EOTAS. Legally they have to accept it if your child has more than 15 days medically authorised absence. You may find that this strengthens your requests.

Sweet, at a meeting with school they told me they were referring to EIT team, to get me to agree to referral, when i then followed this up in writing and they had to reply in writing it changed to child protection.

This is what happened to us, i say this not to scare you, but so you are armed.

When a CAF or TAC or whatever it is called in your area, its usually because they think there is a problem with the parent, not the child. They make a referral to SS not because they feel there are unmet needs, if they thought this, they would agree to SA. They are hoping to get SS on their 'side' to undermine any request for SA and put the spotlight on you. No professional is going to attend a meeting and say they are failing to meet needs, they will sit there and say, what good progress and what a good job they are doing of meeting needs.

When SW contacts your GP, they just simply want to know 'does mum have any medical problems', it will probably be in writing, or even just a questionaire for your GP to tick boxes.

Within 2 weeks of this meeting SW then prepares a report, IF she states that school are meeting needs, mum has mental health problems. It then becomes about you and what support they feel you need or your 'family'.

EIT team is Early Intervention Team, as you already know. Their purpose is to 'establish' needs and how well these are being met, both at school and HOME. So IF they conclude school are meeting needs and then you apply for SA, LA can then say SS have already established needs etc and there is no need for SA.

Sounds very easy right, when SW visits you, you will tell her about how well you meet needs at home and how school are failing your child and you will be believed. Its not, the SW who visited us, did not have a clue about special needs or how these impact on child. She looked at the self injury on ds's legs and he was covered in scratches, i had CAMHS report stating that ds self harms. She concluded the marks on his legs were 'gnat' bites, in late September too! Do not count on there being any degree of common sense involved.