School pressuring for ds to return to school - Star, Agnes and other helpful people

[claw4]

Ds hasnt been to school since emergency A&E mental health assessment a few weeks ago.

He was assessed by CAMHS in A&E, after threats of wanting to kill himself etc.

CAMHS told me to decide on a daily basis whether ds was able to cope with school and if school had concerns about him not attending then to phone her.

School receptionist phoned me yesterday and asked when ds would be going back to school. I told her i had already passed on CAMHS number to SENCO and if she had concerns then to phone and speak with CAMHS.

She said they had and CAMHS had said it was up to me to decide on a daily basis, and apparently CAMHS had also said that ds would be ok to attend some days.

She told me that ds was missing education and his absence was being marked as unauthorised and that the EWO would be informed. She asked that i phone everyday to tell them if ds would be attending.

So they expect that ds can go from needing me to go immediately to pick him up from school and take him for an emergency mental health assessment, to returning to school as if nothing has happened.

They expect me to phone the school receptionist daily, which i did this morning and its bloody ridiculous. Conversation goes "ds wont be in today" school receptionist "why is that" me "he wants to kill himself" school receptionist "oh ok, thanks for phoning"

claw - you have to be prepared to play the long game. The lea first response to a child out of school without supporting medical evidence, assessement or obvious SEN (statement) will be to blame the parent. You do not have a statetment and have been refused (?). Doesn't mean that you are not right - I have years of dismissal, referral to ss etc. Get medical evidence.

{waves to Wet} - missed you

Agnes, ds has his first CAMHS appointment or assessment next week. I spoke to the therapist he had seen previously for over a year today.

She was saying CAMHS would like to assess ds in school and i told her that would not be possible as he isnt there! I told her i could force ds to go to school if she liked so she could assess him. She didnt think that was a good idea!

We agreed to wait until the assessment next week before deciding 'a way forward'

SW has also been on my case about 'arranging a meeting with school next week, with my agreement'

I told her school do not agree with me or the findings of experts and in their opinion ds does not need the help recommended, so it will be for a SENDIST tribunal to decide what help ds needs.

and unless school felt that ds now needs this help, which they do not, as they are opposing my request to get ds the help he needs. I asked her how she felt a meeting would help.

and that i thought forcing ds to return without the help/support he needs, is not in ds's best interest and would cause him further distress.

She ignored my question. Does that sound reasonable?

I think you sound reasonable! She sounds lazy - just wants to push it back to a school based problem
I hope you are keeping notes on all this and adding it to your chronology!
Nothing will happen fast so I suppose just ignore them until CAMHS have seen him - if having seen him CAMHS feel they do need to see him in school you could always ask them to come to your house in the morning and accompany DS into school that way they can decide for themselves if he can cope with it or not.

Very, very reasonable. Stay firm - you're doing great.

What Agnes said. School's just throwing weight about and bullying you with stupid phone thing. Tell them in writing to sod off that you consider emailing to be reasonable and you wait with anticipation for their email address and will begin just as soon as you receive it. Alternatively, if they can't give you theirs, you'd be happy to email their EWO daily instead if they'd prefer.

Claw, you're getting close. Just hang in there for a little bit longer.

Thanks everyone, i will write to school as suggested.

I have also made an appointment with GP for next week to see if i can get him back on side too. The LA bullied him last time, im hoping he will have more confidence to back me now i also have A&E report and CAMHS advice.

So far i havent tried to get ds to school, after A&E visit. Ds is hyper sensitive and extremely tearful and fragile at the moment. Although his injuries are healing, his state of mind is taking longer this time.

I have suggested going back to school to ds and he hasnt been tearful, which has surprised me, as i cannot say anything to ds at the moment without him breaking down in tears. He was actually quite assertive that he is not going back and that it is the 'worse thing' that could happen to him and when asked how he would feel 'very, very, very sad'

Thanks again everyone.

Claw

Though it doesn't look like it, this is a mess of CAMHs making, with LA being unhelpful on the side. Camhs have placed you and school in an impossible situation. They have effectively 'dodged the bullet' of making a medical decision themselves that DS is unfit to attend. This places the responsibility firmly back on your shoulders and means that school has no choice but to follow standard absence procedures - after all, they have not been told that he cannot attend school at present, and have in fact been told that he may be able to attend school some days. So they don't have unequivocal medical evidence that DS cannot attend for a medical reason.

I would request an emergency interim meeting with school, LA and ideally EP as well as CAMHS to make a plan to find a mutually agreed way forward and that everyone is talking to each other and all know the plan. This is a cock up in communictaion and an abregation of responsibility by CAMHS that is being exacerbated by LA, who probably think that if CAMHS haven't signed him off it 'can't be that bad'.

In the meantime you need an agreed plan - for example, that no attempt will be made for DS to come in until after the EP visit and strategies put in place. In the meantime, he will have, say, CBT or some anxiety meds or somesuch support from CAMHS and you will collect core subjects work from school and return it X number of days later. The plan doesn't matter too much as long as everyone gets it and DS isn't left to do nothing academic at all - he may like that too much and you'll have murder re-establishing any kind of education afterwards ;)

It's outrageous - but it's not really schools fault, though they are being a bit dense not coordinating his education provision now....sigh...

Claw4, when you say that your GP said he had no choice but to agree with the findings of the 'panel of experts', I think he was being wet. From what you say they weren't a panel of experts, they were just various bods from the local authority who weren't necessarily even medically qualified. So you need to make sure he realises that so that he doesn't let them override his opinion again.

Thanks ilikemysleep, I will be checking with CAMHS tomorrow as to whether they did tell school that before i send anything (She is off until then)

In fairness to CAMHS, they only saw ds once in A&E and said he does not have to attend school, until such time as he can attend CAMHS assessment and a further decision can be made then.

School have been told in writing of the 'safety plan' which includes "I advised Mrs Claw4 that she will need to consider whether ds going to school would cause an increase in his self harm or thoughts about wanting to die" They were also told of there had been a deterioration in his self harm and ds reported deliberately self harming because of worries related to school etc, etc.

The school have recommendations from EP, SALT, OT, ASD Advisory teacher etc, etc. They are refusing to follow any of these recommendations as in their opinion ds doesnt suffer with anxiety or self harm and is happy.

I dont want him to go back to this school.

Delal, i did tell him that there wasnt an 'expert panel', he then said that if the LA were providing inaccurate information, it was up to me to take it up with them, as he did not want to get into disputes about who was telling the truth!

He said all he could do was to base his decision on the information that was available to him at the time and that he is not an expert in mental health or self harming etc.

Everyone is passing the buck. I cannot expect CAMHS to sign ds off, without even seeing ds first. Then my GP will probably say he is not an expert in mental health, CAMHS are hence why he referred!

I will be going back to my GP next week and reminding him that ds is his patient and he has a duty of care to him.

Just spoke to CAMHS who saw ds in A&E, she said she had NOT told school that ds was ok to attend and the advice that she gave in her A&E report ie Mrs Claw will need to consider whether ds attending school will result in more self harm or thoughts of killing himself, still stands.

Claw so sorry to hear of your situation - don't mean to hijack thread but saw the mention by Corny of a thread re. children struggling to attend school. Don't know how to find it - have just had a quick wander round MN but not very good at this. I'd be really grateful if someone could post a link?
For your DS, I would agree utterly with those here who say ignore the school and focus on CAMHS/GP. And on your own instincts which are best of all. Look after yourself.

here willow

thats good to hear claw you have still got the report?

No worries Willow, not a hijack at all, we are all in the same boat and i actually forgot about the thread, so reminded me i need to read it too!

I just spoke to the attendance officer and she said, she did not ask school to get me to phone daily and she wasnt even aware that ds had not been attending and was shocked at how school have handled this!

She told me to speak to CAMHS and tell them should would be happy to back a referral for home tuition.

exactly the same here!! managed to speak to our EWO and she didn't even know he struggled to get in or if he made it at all. Big cover up with school if you ask me. I was also keep being asked for dinner money when he was off, they were obviously marking him in!!

Good luck with the home tuition.

Devient, its disgusting the lies they tell and how no one communicates.

I dont want home tuition as such, but its a start and in the right direction, if i can get my GP or CAMHS to agree to signing him off. Hopefully knowing they have the backing of the attendance officer, might give someone the confidence to stick their neck out a bit.

I might even write to school and ask them to refer to Attendance Officer? She was saying she cant do much unless school refer, is this a chance worth taking? Its amazing how some start off with good intentions, then change once they realise the hassle involved.

definately, email the school telling them you have been in touch with EWO, it's not something I done as the EWO was my sons schools named person. She was also going to the attendance meeting with school that afternoon, which was a stroke of luck for me. She said she would bring his name up and I told her not to. She said she could hear DS in the background so I said well you know he's off, see if they mention him

She phoned back the next day and said they didn't so she mentioned him in the end and the subject was quickly changed by the head teacher. She said she wasn't going to let it lie and realised the school was making it difficult for us. Such a shame it's the only special school in the borough

Ooh thanks devientenigma - something to read that might help!
claw - glad to hear the attendance officer sounds to be helpful. Home tuition might be a good thing in the short term? - keeps normality ticking over and gives your DS a bit less time to think.

claw,
Just wanted to second what ineedmysleep said. CAMHS need to be told that it is their responsibility to give an unequivocal medical opinion whether ds is well enough to attend school or not. Once you have it in writing then, he will be eligible for home tuition. Point out that you are being accused of letting ds truant if they do not support you in keeping him off school for benefit of his mental health.

Devient, thanks, i think i will wait until next week after ds has seen CAMHS and GP, just in case.

Willow i think home tuition is the only option at the moment. This is ds's second MS school and he cant cope with MS, he needs a specialist school, which we stand no chance of without a statement. Maybe he could cope in MS with a statement, but in my experience of MS is them who lack the understanding and experience, something im not sure if a statement could bring.

Im not sure if ds is even up to doing school work at the moment, his self esteem is extremely low and he has been breaking down in tears at the slightest thing, but my understanding is that he wouldnt get too much home schooling anyhow, so maybe he could cope with few hours.

claw we (my DS and I) are on a different scale to you - my DS suffers anxiety/sadness but not to the degree that you describe with your DS but I do feel for you. I went through something similar with my brother, so I know a little of what it feels like.
With my DS, on his days home, when he is fragile and school gets too much, I try to get him to do a little of the subjects he likes best - maybe the place to start with your DS and his home tuition? I work with him too and we only do it for very short periods. We also go for walks - to quiet places as he hates being seen out of school - and read to him (he's 15 but still likes that, which is good as I enjoy it too!). All designed to bring a feeling of normality into a life which otherwise can become so solitary and detached. I think that depression often expresses itself as a floating away from real life and I think that's the dangerous bit; the more links you lose, the more likely you are to harm yourself because you lose that connection which anchors you to the world around you.
I do hope you can make the professionals see sense. One thing I've learned is that we are our children's experts and their best hope and I am constantly amazed by the experience and determination shown by MNetters!
I also want to thank you for this thread - the link through to the thread about children at home led me on to other links that are so useful.

'he has been breaking down in tears at the slightest thing'

claw that's exactly how my ds was
I didn't realise it at the time but he needed to de-school
school sent work home,LEA sent a tutor round....but what he needed was a break from it all
when he was ready he went back to a suitable environment
if you feel he's not up to doing school work, then you will be right