EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

There are loads of other possibilities if none of the suggestions I made would work.

Rather than organised courses/resources, have you considered a budget DD could use flexibly herself? For example, one day the budget could fund wool and a pattern, the next day she could use the budget to attend a pottery class, then next day she might decide she wants an online art lecture, another day a game for whatever console she has/gaming computer, another day baking ingredients… or whatever interests her at that moment in time. This can help with no demand to follow anything pre-set. Everything could be spur of the moment. Staffing could be covered separately.

I appreciate it may just be how you have summed it up for MN, but if the SEP that is already in F is written as you have written it here, it isn’t specific enough. It would be unenforceable. For example, ‘adults’ needs amending. You may think it should be covered by a mentor, but that isn’t what is written. That would apply whether you had EOTAS/EOTIS or a school placement. Also, what does ‘work with’ mean? How will they do that? Where? How frequently? How long will the sessions be? What qualifications will the counsellor have? Counsellor isn’t a protected title in England.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden really helpful. I'm not sure I can get that out of them though, but if we got to appeal, and I could get evidence to support that she needs flexibility, that could go in the plan? It does say she needs a flexible, bespoke programme of gradually increasing provision, as her capacity for engagement increases, with core GCSEs along with interest based courses. It also specifies 5 hours a day. So far the most she gets in a day is 3 45 min sessions online with homework, which is videos. They do the follow up work and share it next session.

Then she gets a week off every month, and August and December off.

She's getting bored (which is good!) in the time she has off, I think she will pick up some things once they are just there for her to take up as she wants to. So yes, a budget to pay out for a cookery box, or a craft kit, or an online coding course, all that would be great. Even better if I can get it to fit into AQA unit awards.

Yes, sorry I've summarised it for here, but it says things like 2 hours per week with a trusted, suitably trained in ASC adult etc using a strategies to work on social speech and language...so not probably as specific as it needs to be, but more than I've said.

Therapy is the word used, 1 hour a week, with arts or canine assisted, but then they haven't said a therapist as who it's provided by, they said teaching assistant. Absolute bollocks. so I've gone back to them several times about that.

I've contacted overworld and player ready, also sensational, I mentioned the idea of coding or games design to her, she perked up a tiny bit...I might have even got a 'yeah'. She spent last night putting a new operating system onto an old laptop of ours, just from Google and YouTube. Did it in under an hour. She was brilliant at computing in ks3, top of her year, but said it was boring as too easy.

So maybe, just maybe she might try something like that.

They gave us a sundries budget of £300, I've spent £100 on textbooks, another 80 on an office chair, but there was no budget for laptop/computer. If she does something like games design then she'll need one.

I'm going to sit down and look properly at the reports and the plan again tomorrow, I'll make an agenda for the meeting on Wednesday, firstly to tell them I want a separate meeting to go through the plan properly, then to go through provision that can meet what is already in there and what should be in there.

Including PfA, which I think should be a budget and a PA to enable her to get out of the house.

I'll also push for physio or other physical activity, it's in medical reports that she needs to train her muscles to help her with her hyper mobility.

Also I have asked when the phase transfer review meeting will be. That's my biggest worry, they they try to take away EOTIS and give her a college next year. I've made it very clear she's not ready.

I have heard back that the appeal has been registered. Do you think it's a good idea to send the LA my Send35, ahead of the meeting, to say unless you sort all of this, I'm going ahead with it?

And then if they do the phase transfer and try to take things away, I just send in another send 35 and ask for it to be added to an existing appeal? But if they amend and reissue this final plan, as they are now saying it's a draft again...I have to do another send 35 for that? Again, added to the first appeal?

We are on the third 'draft' now. It got issued with mainstream, then with PB, now draft again.

I'm sorry if I'm being thick. I'm just really struggling. I'm waiting on my own referrals for ADHD and ASD, plus just filled out the paperwork for my son. What with work and all this, plus divorce and finances not being great (due to her being at home all day, my bills have gone through the roof) and worries about her moving to pip next year...which if she doesn't get it, will lose me over £1000 a month.

I can't keep my brain on one train of thought, I feel like right now it's a box of mental frogs in there, hopping about. Wearing clogs with bells on. 🤯

The vast majority only secure a comprehensive EOTAS/EOTIS package via appeal, anyway. That is the way to secure a proper package. Then once it is written in F correctly (it does sound like the wording needs improving, e.g. suitable trained isn’t enough, trained in what. Adult isn’t enough. What strategies?), it must be provided and can be enforced. So no, the LA is unlikely to just hand over most/any of what I have posted, but it is all possible with evidence. There are others in your LA with comprehensive EOTAS/EOTIS/C packages - I don’t know if you saw the media attention one such package received earlier in the year.

Laptop, accessories, software/assistive tech, internet, etc. can be included in the EHCP. Even if they aren’t explicitly stated, it is sometimes possible to force the provision if they are required in order for the LA to fulfil their duty to provide what is in F. For example, a laptop or computer or tablet at the very least is required in order for DD to participate in online lessons. Same from broadband. Don’t forget other equipment too.

A few more computer science &/or game design ideas if DD is interested in that area at the moment.

What about computer science tuition? Not necessarily to pursue GCSE/IGCSE, but for the sake of learning and engagement. DD wouldn’t have to stick to the curriculum. It could all be based around her interests. Something like the 1:1s TeachallaboutIT offers. They do a self paced IGCSE course. If DD decides at a later date that is something she would like to try. If DD would like (now or in the future) a non-GCSE qualification, they also do the ICDL and Cambridge nationals too. One of the Cambridge National options is game design.

Game Changers are worth looking at.

BCS do some courses, including a level 2 coding one. Aspiring Minds offer that BCS course and they do ICDL and Cambridge nationals too.

IT rather than computing. KanduIT run a level 2 IT BTEC with the benefit of no in-person assessments.

Whilst a PA can be in F, personally I try to avoid that term. It is a term LAs typically associate with social care provision. Social care provision that educates or trains is actually special educational provision, but LAs sometimes focus on the term PA and go off on a tangent about it. It is easier to avoid the term to prevent the LA using it to muddy the waters. I tend to use mentor, LSA, HLTA or TA instead. The other factor is while the LA must fund provision at a level it can be delivered, funding for PAs is mostly less than funding for, e.g. a mentor. Mentors typically demand a higher rate of pay than most PAs receive. LAs are more likely to quibble over a higher rate of pay for a PA than a mentor, IME.

One thing you haven’t mentioned in any of your posts is professional time. This is an often overlooked part of EOTAS/EOTIS packages. For example, time for planning, communicating with you/other professionals, report writing, preparing for and attending MDTs, updated advice and information prior to ARs, preparing for and attending ARs, an EOTAS/EOTIS co-ordinator to lead/co-ordinate/oversee the package...

You don’t need to send the LA your SEND35 form. They will receive documents from SENDIST.

Rather than issuing another finalised EHCP, push the LA to make amendments via the working document process. You won’t have a WD yet, but this is the route to proposing amendments in appeal. When there is a live appeal, amendments proposed via reviews can feed into the WD process. If the LA does issue another finalised EHCP, sometimes SENDIST allows you to incorporate this as part of the existing live appeal without a fresh appeal being submitted. Other times, with the exact same circumstances, SENDIST is making some submit fresh appeals because it supersedes the EHCP subject to appeal. Often these are then consolidated, but not always. If the LA issue the phase transfer EHCP, you will be able to appeal it. Sometimes it can be added just by making the request via a SEND7 and sometimes SENDIST asks you to submit a new appeal, then consolidate.

So got a bounceback from our caseworker today when I sent our response to the draft EHCP - she has now left 😭

Friday was the deadline for our response but when I called the LA SEN helpline they said another case worker isn't yet allocated.

the independent school we want for DS has agreed to be named so I was feeling really positive - I'm assuming we can keep on pushing/harassing as technically this shouldn't affect timelines, but it's really frustrating as our case worker was very responsive and helpful and now I don't know who to contact. I thought it was weird last week that I'd sent a few emails (e.g. a request for a TAC and some errors in the EHCP) and hadn't got a response

@LittlePickleHead the timescales still apply.

@LittlePickleHead that's so frustrating. We are on our third caseworker, two left. Never any notice of it happening, just no answer to emails.

Just had a meeting with the LA. Too much shite they said to remember but I made notes, no amendments to the EHCP to reflect EOTIS, apparently they don't need to do that, no PfA because apparently that's not applicable to a child of her ability, there's no need for it, and no health recommendations as that's not through them, no physical activity because that's down to me, even though she has medical reports stating the need.

I didn't argue, no point.

But they are willing to add more education and add game changers for mentoring and potentially education, along with animal care course through senshine tutoring. Just got to firm up what I'm asking for and hope they agree. Also they apparently won't fund tech, 'its unlikely '.

They are going to delay phase transfer and have agreed it's unlikely they will expect her to stop online school at 16 so she can continue with her virtual school to complete IGCSEs. So that's something. Appeal is in, I might just let it run then try to ask for the amended (literally just the pb section bring amended) EHCP to be added to the appeal, however the length of time it'll take may mean that is also pointless because she'll have an annual review before then.

Honestly they are so full of shite. Only 4 weeks ago the woman who was in the meeting today agreed the EHCP should be amended to reflect what is happening now.

The LA cannot just delay phase transfer like that. DD is in a phase transfer year. Legally, they must undertake a phase transfer review.

Personally, I wouldn’t be relying on unlikely and I wouldn’t trust a word the LA says. LAs often say one thing and do another, Not holding a phase transfer review does not mean they will guarantee the current provision until the end of Y12.

Ignore the LA’s nonsense. SEP, including PfA, must be detailed, specified and quantified in F, but it isn’t uncommon for LAs to have to be forced via appeal. Any health care provision that educates or trains is SEP, thus the LA’s responsibility, not the ICBs, but this is also something that often takes an appeal. Tech can be funded. Unfortunately, again, it often only happens when parents pursue it through official channels. If it is in F or necessary to fulfil F, it must be funded. With the current appeal timescales, it is normal for an AR to be held during a live appeal. If amendments are proposed during it, they can feed into the WD. It doesn’t make an appeal pointless.

While DD is CSA and you are waiting for your hearing, the physical activity can be pursued through their duty under s19 of the Education Act 1996 if you want. The LA is required to provide a broad and balanced curriculum. That includes PE. (Unless, of course, a child’s needs preclude that in any form which isn’t the case for DD.)

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden I got the hearing date today, January 2027.

I just nodded along to everything because there's no point discussing it with these people, they lie, they don't know what they're talking about most of the time it seems. I'm not wasting my energy on them.

I'll push for the two new providers to be added to the PB as that's the most important thing for now.

Re the phase transfer review, she said they'd do annual review with the caseworker in march but there would be someone from phase transfer there. Which to me sounds very like a phase transfer review...then again, they seem to not care about legal requirements when it suits them, so wouldn't surprise me either way.

I'll wait for the amended EHCP, then I'll contact the tribunal and ask if it can be added... hopefully. Then in march potentially have to do the same thing again, or as you say it's part of the WD.

My main focus now is getting her the provision. She does need physical education (suitable to her health needs, so swimming etc) and PfA in there, I've asked for health too...but I'm sorting her support for that with UCLH, some of the PfA is going to be provided by Game Changers anyway if it's agreed, as we've talked about it'll just have to wait for tribunal I guess. March is the evidence date I think, but it is possible to add more evidence later than that I think?

I also need to decide if I'm going to pay for any professional reports and what to pay for.

It was the use of the word interim that annoyed me, I feel like they are gearing up to take away the EOTIS package.

Even though she's got an EOTIS package with some education, can I still ask for an earlier hearing? And on the basis that it's a phase transfer year, even though I don't want anything of the current provision to change?

The phase transfer review meeting needs to be held now/in the next few weeks. March is too late. The phase transfer EHCP needs finalising by 31st March.

You can request an expedited hearing on the basis DD is out of school. You can’t yet request an expedited hearing on the basis DD is a phase transfer year because you need the finalised phase transfer EHCP for that. Once you have the phase transfer EHCP, any appeal can be prioritised as a phase transfer appeal. This still applies even if you want the current provision to remain in the EHCP. Don’t say you don’t want the current provision to change, you do. You want section F to be amended, and that is the section setting out the special educational provision. And the wording surrounding the current SEP needs improving.

In addition to J being amended, you need the new provision, but not the providers’s names, to be included in F.

You can request late evidence is admitted. Don’t worry about that.

Hey all. Just a quick one about timescales for EHCPs. My DD is in y4 and I’m trying to get the process underway before the start of phase transfer in y6 (2027). I’d hoped to get the NA application in before Xmas but for various reasons I’m totally overwhelmed atm and school are dragging their heels a bit also. Can I just get a sense from others, from start to finish including appeals, how long the whole process actually took for you? I am anticipating multiple appeals obviously. Thank you all ❤️

We did ours recently. Applied in July, agreement to assess in August (on day of 6-week deadline. Agreement to assess in late October. Final EHCP issued this week. Ours has actually followed the 20-week timetable, which may be because our LA is in special measures and being forced to pull its socks up. I was expecting a lot more of a battle, to be honest. Good luck!

This isn't strictly only EHCP but related, I am in despair at the lack of support.
We have a new temporary case worker starting Monday who is apparently prioritising our case, but will clearly have to catch up and action all the things the last case worker didn't do before she left.

DS is still in limbo and his mental health is in the pits, I don't know what to do with him on a daily basis, he needs some routine which two full time working parents can't provide. I'm at breaking point.

S19 has not been actioned because his EHCP is in theory nearly complete, but obviously there is no guarantee that we will get the place that can support his needs.

I've just found out he was rejected from Hospital Outreach on 13th Nov (the school didn't inform us but to be fair had already said he would be) because CAMHS had said he didn't have significant mental health issues despite me calling the crisis line a few days before as he was saying he wants to die.

What do people do in this situation? I am close to thinking I need to be signed off work for a while to focus on this but that's obviously a temporary solution and one that has knock on implications for my job

@LittlePickleHead people, mainly mothers, do a mixture of being signed off sick, parental leave, sabbaticals, family help, reducing their hours or resigning whilst pushing for the EHCP to be finalised/s19 provision to be provided.

@Bearlionfalcon it can be anywhere from 20 weeks (although not so common these days) to over 2 years.

This is written throughout draft plan, using education setting wording is this allowed or should it say teacher, LA etc?
Also what can I ask them to change the bit where is says as part of personalised planning to?

Unfortunately the EP report was pretty useless and vague on quantity all saying as required…

Education setting isn’t sufficient. It needs to state the job role. How much/quantity needs to say the amount required. To know what amendments to propose, you need to look at the evidence because the content of the EHCP is based on the evidence. If the evidence is too vague and woolly, you need to go back to the LA/report writer to ask them to make them detailed, specified and quantified. ‘Across X’s week’ isn’t sufficient for how often either. Ratio needs to be stated too.

My daughter is 8, recently diagnosed with ADHD. We went for private assessment after no help from CAMHS. She also has ASD traits but doctor said she would need further assessment to confirm or rule out that. We could do that but need to save up for it. Cant do it immediately. She is doing average academically but that is with a lots of handholding and one to one support at home. Socially she struggles. She loves to have friends but at the same time finds it hard to manage friendships.

I could write a lot about her but in short we felt that she needs help both academically and socially so applied for EHCNA. Our LA asked for a multi party meeting at school, which we (parents), SENCO and class teacher attended. School has sent the meeting notes to LA. School doesnt think she would get EHCP as she is doing ok. It is us who know how much effort has gone in to have her where she is.

My question is what should I do next? Shall I send any more suporting documents? I have already sent doctor's report. Shall I ask LA about status of my application? what happens after this kind of meeting?

They have to tell you within 6 weeks of the date you requested the EHCNA if they will or won't assess.

If they say they won't you should appeal.

On the IPSEA site they have all the info you need and a template letter you can send as soon as the six weeks elapse.

Basically the meeting doesn't change the legal timeline.

Thanks @Needlenardlenoo. The 6 weeks completes on 18th Dec. Fingers crossed till then.

@Vtm send any supporting evidence you have.

Alas, nearly a full term done and DC1 (Y10; ASD with PDA profile and ADHD) has only managed a single lesson and a couple of meetings with the SEN team, which he found overwhelming (too much banter and small talk).

He's struggling with school-related trauma, social anxiety and some other issues. I think he also feels a lot of pressure just knowing how much we fought for this school place and it's there and he's not able to access it.

The school isn't pressuring him. In addition to the SEN team meetings, they've offered a lot of flexibility around reduced timetables, quiet space at school to do work away from the other students, online provision, online counselling. DC has not been able to engage with any of it. I'm not sure what else the school can do.

This is really the only school that had a chance of being suitable for DC. He's been home for a year and I had hoped that he'd reach the point where he could start to engage. We saw signs of that beginning to happen over the summer (eg, teaching himself coding and graphic design), but since trying to go in October he's slipped back into burnout and is adamant that he will never be able to go back to a physical school and has no interest in doing any exams of any kind or going to university. This is a very bright, high-achieving student with so much potential, it breaks my heart, but our focus is very much on his mental health right now. I really don't care about GCSEs at the moment.

At home, we've offered every kind of therapeutic intervention under the sun, but he can't engage. I think he just needs time to recover, but we don't know if that means another few months or a few years.

Is it time to call for an emergency review and ask for EOTIS? Any EOTIS package would have to be child-led, so probably very hard to get. I don't want to EHE, and I'm guessing if we had to appeal for EOTIS we'd be looking at a 12-18-month wait for a hearing at this point. Maybe that would be enough time for DC to recover and feel ready again, and by that time we'd have some sense of what he could engage with.

Or do we just keep waiting as long as the school isn't pushing (and they're happily getting paid by the LA)? They're a non-section 41 fully independent therapeutic school.

Thank you, I will go through and get on this today!

@SpaceInvader321 yes, I think you need an early review. A term is still very early days and some who struggle to attend after a term will go on to transition successfully over s longer period of time, but it sounds like, at the moment, DS’s needs cannot be met in a school. He is telling you right now school isn’t going to work.

If offered, would DS be able to meet with staff off site? At home or somewhere publicly. That is one thing missing from your list of what the school has tried/offered. Another thing to ask if DS may be able to engage with it, will they fund AP/educational boxes/courses related to whatever DS is interested in? That school doesn’t normally fund APs, but they may do if you ask.

What therapeutic input is being received separately to you offering at home?

The majority of people have to appeal to secure EOTIS these days. Even more so for a proper package rather than a few hours tutoring with maybe with a couple of hours mentoring &/or therapies &/or a session at an AP. A proper package is so much more. You would be able to request an expedited hearing. Still a long wait, though. In the meantime, you could look at section 19 provision.

I just had a question around requesting change of placement at annual review (from mainstream to specialist). DD’s (5, in reception) next annual review is May 2026, I have visited a few alternative settings and need to visit some more.

Just a little confused about next steps and the order in which things should happen.

Should special schools be consulted before the annual review? Are they consulted after the annual review once a change of placement is requested? Does the LA send out consultations to our preferred setting/s or do we? Do LA panels say yes/no to agreeing a specialist setting is needed before or after receiving responses to consultations?

I’m fairly certain another tribunal for section I (and probably B&F) will be needed after the current one concludes next month.

@thatsnotmygarden DS does not feel able to see any staff from school, not anywhere in person or online. Since hitting burnout a year ago, he's only socialised twice with friends from his old school and a bit more frequently with a close family friend. Otherwise, every interaction leaves him feeling fatigued (eg, we had an online CAMHS assessment the other morning and he was exhausted for the rest of the day).

The school recently partnered with an online AP and they offered DS some online lessons, but DS says he can't do it yet. Maybe "someday". He can't engage in live lessons or really anything remotely resembling "school". I think it's just too triggering for him right now.

He's not receiving any therapeutic input. We have MindJam written into his EHCP but after trying two mentors he didn't click with, he's hesitant to try again. He spends the days reading, doing art, teaching himself graphic design and computer stuff. He talks about all the things he's excited to learn but cannot consider that any learning will ever take place in school again.

I don't think there's any point requesting section 19 provision. When I requested it earlier this year when he first went into burnout, it took the LA months to respond and then they said all they could offer was an on-site provision primarily for kids with behavioural issues (which is not DS). And even if they offered to send a tutor to us, DS wouldn't be able to engage.

I really feel like we're stuck. At the same time, knowing DS as I do, I really think he'll be ok with time and will eventually find his way. He denies that he's PDA but says that if there was no expectation to go to school, do exams, etc, he'd be able to do his GCSEs on his own in a year. EHE is therefore appealing in a way, but having to cover all provision and support ourselves would be hard, hence thinking EOTIS is the way to go.

Meanwhile, DS2 at the same school (Y8) is starting to struggle and I'm afraid it's only a matter of time until he burns out again and becomes unable to attend. We have asked for meetings with the school about both kids and are waiting to hear back.

We're also supposed to get a report soon from the CAMHS assessment but the nurse who conducted the assessment suggested it would be hard to provide any support if DS won't engage.