EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

@Alltheyearround if you think the school who has responded negatively to the consultation will work and it is not wholly independent, the LA can still name it and you can still appeal for it if they won’t.

It is a shame Dawn House isn’t closer. I think that would have worked. Lots of schools need pushing to fulfil EHCPs. I would look at Brantwood. The provision Brantwood offer depends on the child’s needs rather than having one offer they offer all pupils. Some have a good experience so I would go to look yourself despite some negative experiences. There is an MN’er whose child did very well there before aging out. If you start a thread, they may comment. From your posts, I’m not sure Bridge College will have a peer group for DS. Strive has a lot of pupils with SEMH needs. How would DS cope with that? Inscape also has some DC who sometimes display challenging but not the same as Strive.

Working doesn’t mean EOTAS/EOTIS can’t work. The LA is responsible for provision. They cannot compel you to organise, deliver, or facilitate any part of the provision. Provision doesn’t even have to take place at home. The LA can’t force you to accept provision at home. It is not elective home education. The LA cannot force you to attend an AP setting with DS. If an adult is required to attend with DS, the LA must fund someone. EOTAS/EOTIS doesn’t have to mean little/no peer interaction and DS doesn’t have to spend anymore time with you than he does now.

So today I received the negative consultation from what was our preferred school and they are claiming incompatibility with education of others and no reasonable adjustments can be put in place to overcome this- I’m aware it is a high bar to prove this but the main issue is this consultation makes it crystal clear they don’t want my child in their school and I no longer want to send him there. The LA are consulting other schools which will return negative consults so we have no school place for September no offer of anything else I can call JR on timescales but unsure what this will achieve given there is no place identified for him? Is there anything else we can do- obviously demanded a plan from the LA, complained etc but we are just getting ignored.

Threatening JR then following through with it will get you the right of appeal so you can appeal.

If one of the schools who has replied negatively to the consultations is not wholly independent, the LA may name them anyway.

Objecting to a consultation is often more nuanced than the school not wanting the child. It is often about money and politics rather than being personal.

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, there is EOTAS/EOTIS.

Sadly comments included concerns that my child’s behaviour would impact on other students causing “regression in their behaviour and making it more difficult for positive behaviour reinforcement for all pupils”- that’s a personal comment to me.

There was plenty of political stuff - eg we also have child x coming who needs a full time 1:1 that the LA is also not paying for and a whole load of children where we can see unmet needs yet to be identified- we don’t have the staff! so just like every other school classroom then!

It’s the summer holidays!

Our ECHP arrived and in June myself and the SENco went through it and made it much less vague.

They said they’d need to go back to the professionals to make any of the changes we suggested (which I asked them to do) but in the meantime we finalised it so the funding could be released to the school.

He will have a 1:1 in place from September - but how much should I keep pushing to unvague the EHCP? Should I see how we go with the school and the support in place? Wait until the annual review? Or keep pushing?

Appeal. A vague and woolly EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on. Consider independent assessments if the current evidence is vague and woolly.

Don’t trust the LA to amend at some point in the future even if they say they will. I wouldn’t wait for AR either. You may still end up needing to appeal.

Be careful relying on the SENCO. Some are good, but some do not understand the law and are schooled in LA policy.

Unless 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP, it doesn’t have to be provided.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/sponsored_discussions/5383942-what-helped-your-send-child-settle-into-a-new-school-year-share-your-advice-you-could-win-a-ps200-voucher?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

This official Mumsnet thread has annoyed me. If only it were so easy, eh?!

If I were Cambian, I would focus on the repeated safeguarding failures, some very serious, and ensuring their schools meet the independent school standards.

@Needlenardlenoo if I had known a new pencil case and a social story would do it I could have saved myself a lot of effort.

It's actually quite interesting though isn't it, how Cambian have located all those problems with the child- so they can't handle unpredictability, rather than the school failing to be predictable.

I'm very jittery at the moment as DD is starting year 7, and although she seems quite cool about it I failed to get the school to meet with me about her EHCP specifically before breaking up. How long did people find it took before school lined all the provision up? Obviously they are supposed to have it in place from day 1...

Absolutely!

I could have saved so much time and money.

We do have loads of pencil cases though!

@Dinnerplease I would start as you mean to go on. The support should be provided from the start. If it isn’t provided, I would chase the SENCO. If it isn’t provided, it is setting the child up to fail. There is a reason the provision is in F and that is because it is reasonably required to meet the needs in B.

@Dinnerplease they should have met with you before now! My DD is moving from yr11 to sixth form in the same school so we had a meeting towards the end of term to discuss what that would look like, as sixth form is quite different from lower school. When she moved from primary to secondary, the school liaised with her primary school regarding what support she had in place but I also met with them before term started. You could try emailing the school office - there will definitely be senior staff in over the next few weeks due to A-level / GCSE results so could at least request someone call you ahead of the start of term. Most schools also start with an inset day which gives some breathing space.

Thanks, yes, I have emailed. It's not that we haven't met at all- there has been a transition meeting with the inclusion lead and enhanced transition session- it's the specifics of the F provision.

I'm pretty annoyed about it actually, for various reasons I thought they would be better than this. She doesn't massively rely on things like social stories but if she did, we'd be in trouble as have no idea how things like lunch and breaks will work.

Everything was working very nicely at primary, it's just exhausting to think how much lean in this will need. I'm starting a new Big Job in October as well.

Did you not discuss provision and things like lunch/break at the transition meeting with the inclusion lead? That would normally be something covered then.

In outline, but not detail- so yes, she can have a lunch pass, but not- 'for the first 2 weeks you'll be taken to the lunch hall, the teacher will know you're to go early and someone will collect you'.

It's the lack of detail really. She seems relaxed about it so hopefully it will all be fine.

The meeting I had set up.to discuss provision they weren't ready to go through at that point. Sigh.

I have a shiny new transition plan from the secondary school senco - they seem to think my daughter is going to rock up in September, go to a quieter learning 'hub' and sit for an hour doing Lord knows what. This is the child who has missed an entire academic year of school (last year of primary), who writes detailed escape plans and if she can't escape has threatened to hurt other students.

The plan extends over 6-7 weeks by which time she will just about be fully integrated back into the mainstream classroom her autism and sensory issues cured, along with the mental health issues. Reasonable adjustments will be offered re. uniform (did I mention she will only wear pyjamas), and possibly a toilet pass if I can supply medical evidence.

I love it when a plan comes together...

Awaiting panel decision on setting/type of setting for Final.

The schools consulted have said can't meet needs.

Not sure where the LA are going with this now.

We will see. Should get a decision a week before he goes to whatever setting they have decided...probably current school if I had to lay bets.

On the plus side had a great appointment with one of our professionals last week. She has such good insight into DS and what would help him I could honestly weep with joy. When someone completely understands your child, it makes a world of difference.

Aw it does doesn't it, @Alltheyearround ! The young Irish SLT who did DD's assessment was delightful.

When someone completely understands your child, it makes a world of difference.

I completely agree with you @Alltheyearround.

We are getting negative consult after negative consult one however doesn’t say they can’t meet his needs or the setting isn’t suitable just he is incompatible due to the cohort of other children already allocated to them no specifics just we have too many children coming to us with additional needs and a lot in the same category and then they have listed his needs as the reasons. They are arguing they have more than average although in reality they only have one percentage above the national average number of EHCP plans. Does anyone know if schools can reject and get it accepted solely on the basis of them having too many EHCP’s?

One of the lawful exceptions LAs can rely on is the attendance of the CYP would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others. However, the bar for this is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. It is worth reading some of the case law around this and asking the LA some pointed questions around specifics rather than the vague reasons.

Also remember non-wholly independent schools can, and your preference must unless the LA can prove the high bar, be named even if the school objects.

I’m not looking forward to the return to school.
I met a few school Mum’s over the holiday - one who has a child who has been excluded from DS’s class (child then got an EHCP and school refused placement), one who felt the school were potentially going to exclude their DS one who said the school would have only ‘accepted’ their DD if she had the highest funding band, and another with an older brother who was excluded from the school. I’m also aware of another exclusion in DS’s class - and then with my DS it was an attempt to refuse placement with EHCP before he started.

I can’t help but feel confused/ angry about this - and powerless. I know these children - I have seen them on play dates/at parties. They are not ‘badly behaved’ - why are they being excluded and why is this allowed to happen?
LA have actually been pretty much on time to advise of amending EHCP, and say they will have draft amended plan to me next week.

My question - I strongly feel the school did not give DS the provision he was funded for last year until the summer term when a ‘provision map’ for Year 1 was written by the SENCO and given to the teacher.

I want to ensure that DS has his provision at the start of Year 2. This is section F - but it’s the way section F is communicated/clear to the staff who teach him - and also getting the message across that it is not optional, and has to happen. They tend to use their ‘provision map’ system, but without the amended EHCP - is the provision not clear/relevant until it has been finalised/is he lawfully ‘in limbo’ until then? Any tips here would be appreciated!
And then - KS2 transfer. The case worker assured me that if parental preference is for mainstream KS2 then this will happen. They can’t see a reason why he shouldn’t get placement at the feeder school. Apparently - but I’m sceptical. Rejection at reception was because DS used a PECS book. So can the LA can overule a school rejection and can a school push back and say ‘no’? I get the impression they contact (3??) local schools. If 2 reject and 1 accept - are LA likely to go with that school? The LA have ultimate say - but what if the school say they have too many EHCP applications/ any other reason?? How much power over the LA does the school have?

Just coming on to say thanks to @thatsnotmygarden Tribunal decision approved special school for DS and on the timeline LA have to name before term starts plus in B and F agreed 1:1 support for the duration of the entire week whilst in the special school. Hopefully the LA will not delay the final EHCP too long beyond the start of term because it is mostly written already.

@Choconuttolata Hurrah! That is excellent news. You are welcome.

@BangerMasher the existing EHCP remains in force until an amended one is finalised. You need the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F for it to be enforceable. If it isn’t in F of the finalised EHCP or is vague and woolly, it doesn’t have to be provided. That was the problem you had last year.

Assuming your preferred placement is not wholly independent, the LA must name your preferred school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar for this is high. Unless the LA can prove one of the above, they must name the school even if the school object. They do not need the school to agree. However, the school may still object when consulted. Schools object when consulted for a myriad of reasons beyond them being able to meet the legal exceptions.

You also have a right to a mainstream education unless mainstream would be incompatible with the efficient education of others and no reasonable steps could be taken to avoid that. The bar for this is even higher. Although it isn’t a right to a specific placement.