EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you very much, I scrolled back to June and July and see what you mean about @Alltheyearround having similar concerns around the LA saying school can’t meet need.

Just to clarify (and so I have a counter argument), if the SLT training provision is added to F and the LA have to fund it, does that mean the LA have to fund both the costs of the training and also the costs associated with support staff working beyond their usual hours (so the school is effectively not out of pocket)?

Does anyone know a SALT school - speech sound disorder/ASD/DLD in the north west/midlands - Staffordshire/ Derbyshire/Cheshire, between Sheffield/Machester?

Alderwasley is a no because DS is too far behind academically. On rate and accuracy he is still Y2 for reading for example. He needs some really good literacy input as school just haven't stepped up to provide what's in the EHCP, and I don't think they ever will. They just want to 'do what they do'.

Thanks All.

@Ponche the LA is responsible for ensuring provision in F is provided. That includes ensuring there is appropriate funding to actually ensure the SEP is provided. So, if the provision is written correctly in F it (the training and the staff time whether it’s in or out of normal school hours) can be funded.

@Alltheyearround have you ruled out the other schools in the SENAD group?

If it isn’t too far Dawn House in Nottinghamshire not too far from Mansfield is worth looking at. I know someone whose DC is very happy there. There’s also Sutherland House in Notts if that is doable. I know there’s DC from your LA funded here. The benefit of both these is they are NMSS rather than wholly independent SS.

If you can stretch to Sheffield itself, there’s Brantwood. Although I don’t know if they will be able to meet DS’s DLD needs.

@BrumToTheRescue thanks, makes sense!

Just had another question. School mentioned the daily structured interventions in section F of the current plan add up to 2 and a half hours. But my proposed amendments mean the structured interventions will add up to almost 4 and a half hours.

True, but I don’t think any of the additions are unnecessary. Surely these things just make up her differentiated curriculum, which section F says she needs?

Also, if she is unable to access the curriculum her peers are accessing, isn’t better that she has more structured interventions that will fill her day? Especially as the demands of school increase.

Or is it a problem that the daily interventions take up most of the day?

@Ponche I’m not sure there is one set answer in relation to how much is too much. There are too many variables, such as the personality of the individual child, the child’s needs, the interventions… that influence the answer.

We have had push back from school previously that interventions interfere with access to a broad and balanced curriculum. However, if that is what a child or young person needs according to professional advice, I'm not sure a school can really argue unless they say they can't meet need (ours did but it wasn't really about meeting needs so much as not getting enough money from the LA to be able to provide 1:1 TA time for interventions in the EHCP).

@Ponche will report back as to reaction from school when our SALT time is added to motor skills daily. I am assuming the LA has consulted with current school regarding this change - previous tribunal officer said this would be the case - but one can never be certain of anything.

After a full term of faffing about, the LA have emailed to say the speech and lang company have said they can't provide the therapy. No reason given just back to drawing board. Already they have delayed using tribunal, for over 18 months. Now its in the final but no provision (should have started 5 Sept) so solicitor pre-action letter next step. Think he said he'd send them a warning email beforehand as sometimes that can focus attention.They have certainly drawn it out long enough. This is a teen with 2 complex speech disorders, amongst other things. To them, all he represents is a cost sheet.

@BrumToTheRescue thanks, I see what you mean. I’ll proceed with my amendments and see what happens.

@Alltheyearround thanks a lot, it would be really helpful if you could report back. And how frustrating for you that the battle is never ending.

DD is in nursery and starting reception next year. I don’t know how much of an issue the interventions will be (if the appeal goes in my favour) as the curriculum for this year and next is play based anyway.

Also surely this is just a natural consequence of parents of high needs children being heavily encouraged to ‘give mainstream a go’.

In terms of 1:1 TA for interventions, the school requested exceptional allocation funding for 35 hours 1:1 support and this was accepted and she’s had a full time 1:1 since she started including at lunch time. Similar to @MinnieTruck’s DD I think. How’s your DD getting on @MinnieTruck ?

It’s hard to know what the best course of action is. Worried I’ll end up appealing section I in 2026 after the B and F appeal in 2025.

I’d like DD to be in mainstream for reception and also feel I need more time to research and do my due diligence before selecting a special school as I don’t want to make the wrong decision.

@Ponche Exactly this:

'Also surely this is just a natural consequence of parents of high needs children being heavily encouraged to ‘give mainstream a go’.

I think you've got a good approach. As long as needs are met in early years education (early intervention with all kinds of SEND is best practice, to put it bluntly neuro-plasticity means optimum windows for interventions). I think going mainstream and then having a good look at what is available and within distance of you is a good idea.Also you will gather more info as you go, reports from different professionals as to what her needs are and the best place/provisions to meet those. We did B and F this summer and likely will need to for I at some point in the next 2 years for a specialist placement.

In mainstream, quite a lot depends on senior management, as well as staff such as teachers and TA's. How much they understand, how willing they are to be flexible and look to DC needs rather than just cracking on as per and the child gets lost in the cracks (for us money and TA time have been a big mess at school and they have not been transparent from the word go, however some individual teachers and TA's are really great and go the extra mile which means a lot).

@Ponche yes, you’re right! DD is going into week 5 at her new nursery and they’ve really accommodated her. Her settling in period was staggered for the first two weeks so that she could get used to the new environment. She’s able to go into the sensory room first thing in the morning as the nursery room is quite overwhelming with all the parents and kids inside.

She has a 1:1 all throughout the morning, lunchtime and the afternoon. Her 1:1 is great, really makes every effort to understand her and get DD used to the nursery’s routine. The SENCO is making sure that the EHCP is followed quite closely and I know they have a visit from DD’s SALT coming up. So far, no complaints.

How’s your DD getting on? I’ve been following the thread on and off and can see that you’re appealing certain sections, how’s it going? Stressful no doubt😩

Our la had been ordered to provide a consultation response and a witness statement from our parental preference by 12 noon today at 1 they advised that they hadn't managed to get a detailed witness statement from the school and hope to have it by the end of the day. I doubt they will get it in such a short amount of time. Is there anything I can do should I not receive it?

You can bring it to SENDIST’s attention. Although, it is likely the LA will be given multiple chances to send the evidence, especially with your hearing date so far away.

@BrumToTheRescue to the rescue, I have since received an email from the la apologising for the delay and they are awaiting a consultation response from the parental preference. They said they may consider a sept 2025 start date in a Sen provision but if I would like this I need to do a send 7 change of placement form... I don't understand why I would need to do this if I am already appealing section I? Is it a trick

may consider…a Sen provision

Before doing anything, you need to know what SEN provision and something more than wishy washy ‘may consider’.

When parents refuse such future offers, LAs often come back with a place for sooner. However, unless the LA conceded beforehand with a summer hearing, realistically, you are looking at a September start, anyway.

@BrumToTheRescue Ok thank you. The preference school is visiting my daughter this week at school for an assessment I'm certain they could meet need but I will wait to see their response. It does seem very wishy washy. I also think they don't have a leg to stand on at this point

I've just received my daughter's EP report and hope to get the LA's decision on whether to issue a plan soon. The EP recommendations 1:1 support is provided by her college flexibly and doesn't specify a total number of hours needed per week. I wondered if anyone had any advice regarding this? My worry is that college won't provide enough support without it being a bit clearer

The report needs to be detailed, specified and quantified. Ask the LA to go back to the EP to make the report detailed, specified and quantified. If you have the EP’s contact details, also contact them directly.

Random question from me but what is the personal budget’ about on the EHCP. Does anyone actually have one? It sounds intriguing

A personal budget is money allocated to enable a parent/carer to arrange some or all of the support set out in section F. There are separate complicated regulations governing the use of PBs. If, for instance, you decided you wanted to arrange speech therapy yourself, you could ask for a budget to enable you to do so. Unsurprisingly, the use of public funds has to be tightly audited, and it can't be used for part payment towards school fees. It can only be used for provision in a school if the school agrees. One of the most useful applications is when the child has EOTAS, in that it allows the parent to choose tutors etc and pay them direct.

@MinnieTruck I have 2 DSs with personal budgets.

Personal budgets can be funded in different ways. One way is direct payments to parents, which is what many think of when they think about personal budgets. Another way is by third party arrangements where a third party is given the funds to manage on the parent’s behalf. Another way is where the LA or school holds funds and commissions the provision. And some personal budgets are delivered in a combination of the different way.

Just had email from EP prior to assessment end of Nov.

Concerned about this line in their fine print.

The report will NOT:

Detail information of specific programmes and interventions for staff or parents to do. There are many of these and the adults will be best to use the one’s they have knowledge, training and experience of without the EP specifying one from an extensive list.

Describe activities for parents/carers to do at home, unless this is the specific requested purpose of the report.

@BrumToTheRescue What do you think?

Last EP was from LA in 2019 and she did detail specific interventions such as phonics, wave 3 literacy, paired reading and so on - loads of suggestions and said don't need to do everything but choose from these to meet needs. Worried this one won't give the specificty we need for the EHCP for section (F). School not doing anything of the plan currently for literacy and DS is falling ever more behind. I want it to be

so specific the school can't wriggle out of correct provision.

Interesting! Thank you @Scruffily @BrumToTheRescue

@Alltheyearround discuss your concerns with the EP. Particularly in relation to DS’s language and literacy needs. Do they have experience of writing reports for tribunals? It may be they will describe exactly what is needed but without naming a programme. I have seen reports like this and despite not explicitly naming a programme it didn’t leave much option to use any random intervention the LA/school decides.

@BrumToTheRescue

Good morning
Panel sat yesterday and agreed DD needs specialist placement. Waiting on version 2 of the draft ehc plan. Do I get a chance in Section I to name the school I would prefer ?
Thank you