EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

@Onegentlepeer
The school can’t amend the EHCP, only the LA can do that.

You should make it clear to the LA you don’t agree and, assuming it doesn’t, the evidence doesn’t support such amendments.

After issuing the original draft and you making representations, there is no further requirement for the LA to issue another draft if they aren't going to make any amendments or the amendments made are a result of your representations (and to name a type of placement/placement where relevant). The LA could finalise without consulting you again or your agreement. However, if the LA makes other amendments, they must reissue a draft. (SENCOP 9.125).

@BrumToTheRescue
I will meet with the school to see what they are up to. I will also email the LA and make sure the school don't try and change anything.
I had no idea how tricky this was going to be. You have really helped, thank you.

Hey wise ones. We're 6 months on from a tribunal so have a tight EHCP which school continue to take the absolute piss out of. (Suggesting generic lunchtime supervision for year group and other kid's TAs presence in lessons meet the 1-2-1 hours which are meant to take place out of lessons). Have raised the non-compliance with LA who don't appear to have been able to shift the dial. Am I heading to a pre-action judicial review letter?

@Proserphina probably, I’m afraid. Before going ahead with a pre-action letter, have you tried emailing the DCS threatening JR? That sometimes works. Although not as often as it previously did.

Yes already tried. Are SOSSEN still snowed under?

@Proserphina there is a wait, but not as long as it sometimes is.

Many thanks Brum

Hi everyone I just want to ask a few things that are bringing me anxiety at the moment.

Currently in an outright war between the EHCP Team, LA Inclusion Team and a mainstream Infant school.

Currently going through EHCP Team has agreed specialist place is required for DS.

In the draft stages of EHCP, paid for SOSSEN to complete an analysis. Quite a bit came back I submitted it along with other actions that I/nursey thought should be included or corrected.

EHCP Team sent back comments, majority in disagreement. Insisted the help of a SEND consultant to help.

Whilst this is all taking place, DS is not in school. Earlier in the summer term DS was accepted to a mainstream school through normal admissions. 2 weeks into the settling in period I had to withdraw him. Due to his inability to cope, lash out and the reaction from the school, lets say it wasn't supportive. He went back to nursery however had to stop attending just before his 5th Birthday (extended his time at nursery he will be considered as taught out of year). Since then he has been at home.

The thing is I was asked by his EHCP co-ordinater if I would consider sending him to mainstream "whilst they continue finding a specialist placement", right from the get go of them agreeing to issue a draft. I expressed that I didn't think that it would be in the best interests of DS and said I would just like to go through the EHCP process. Multiple times I have been told to keep the place open at Marston Green as the situation is complex by admissions and the EHCP Team had no answers to my questions when I asked can we decline the place at the mainstream school.

There was contact a couple of weeks ago from the infant school that I withdrew him from in the summer, asking what was I was doing with DS as they were concerned that I may get fine for not sending in DS and the Head Teacher actively tried to plant a seed about home educating until the EHCP comes through. They tried to pressure me as a boy in their nursery didn't get a school place and they wanted to know what was happening, I suppose in a bid to give the boy DS place.

I spoke to both the EHCP Team and Inclusion Team about the conversations and told them I didn't want DS to attend. We have already been there and got the t shirt. There is also concern about the impact it will have on my son and I don't want to cause anymore negative experiences around school. I asked if I could just decline the place and it's gone south since.

Inclusion Team emailed and
has said its school's responsibility as he is on roll there, and that they will recieve funding for DS and I need to go mediate with the school which has been backed up by the EHCP Team. A date for mediation has been arranged for the 14th October with no acknowledgement from me.

The consultant I'm who is advocating wrote an email basically asking why the Inclusion Team and EHCP Team are pursing for DS to attend a school which is not suitable and not named within section I of the EHCP. She also mentioned that we are due to submit a response to the EHCP's latest comments of what they agree/disagree with on the deadline of the 12th October. No response to this email has been recieved.

11th October, I recieve a communication from the EHCP Team with the final draft not naming any school or type of school. In the letter sent alongside it states that the LA are aware that I would prefer a specialist school however the LA are looking to consult with other schools which are suitable. Like they didn't agree to a specialist setting and this is just down to my personal preference!?

The LA are actively pushing for DS to attend mainstream. Now the the EHCP has been finalised without any school or type of school will the intensity increase for me to place him in mainstream. Is this allowed? What happens if I just refuse to let him go? I assume it's now going to appeal. I will go through it with my consultant on Monday but just wanted to lower my anxiety over the weekend.

Please anyone who can shed a little light or has a similar experience write back. I just feel I'm at breaking point at the moment and I'm only trying to do what's best for my son hence why I got someone to advocate for me.

Thanks

Also just to note EHCP Team decided that they did not "feel comfortable consulting with schools due to the amount of amendments that came back from SOSSEN" so they have not yet started consulting.

Thanks, @BrumToTheRescue. In their response to the appeal, the SENCo has highlighted where the shortfall in funding is and how much is needed to cover the provision. They said they could meet needs 'provided the Plan was fully funded'. As mentioned below, the LA did not submit this with their final evidence, claiming they hadn't heard back from the school but I know the school submitted it weeks ago. I'm still waiting for them to submit it as late evidence...

What's the best way to draw attention to this at this point in the appeal, given the final evidence deadline has passed? Should I refer to the school's statement on the CRF or cite it in the WD?

In the CRF, how detailed do I have to be about the outstanding headline issues? Is it enough to say sections B and F aren't adequately detailed, specified and quantified throughout? Should I point out that it is poorly organised (eg, some provisions that should go under C&L are under Sensory) and therefore hard to follow/incoherent in places (this was SOS!SEN's view)? Do I need to justify why some of the amendments we're requesting weren't raised at draft stage (maybe bc I had two EHCPs to review and very little time and am not an expert!)?

Thank you!

You're not appealing the funding, you're just asking for information about the actual total costs of providing for your child's needs, i.e. adding together the cost to the LA and the cost to the school.

This is not a matter for the WD. If you have both sets of costs, and if that brings them close to or over the costs of your preferred school, then you should use that in argument before the tribunal.

@OnlyHope33 you might want to ask MN to edit your post to remove the school name.

11th October, I recieve a communication from the EHCP Team with the final draft not naming any school or type of school.

A draft should never name a school or type of school. Only a finalised EHCP does that (and even then, not always). Is it a draft or finalised since you also say Now the the EHCP has been finalised without any school or type of school?

It is normal for LAs to consult mainstream schools even when they also consult specialist.

If the EHCP is a draft, until there is a finalised EHCP saying otherwise, DS will remain on the roll of the mainstream school unless you deregister/have deregistered. When you say you withdrew DS, did you deregister or just say DS couldn’t attend because of his SEN? From your post, I am guessing the latter. You can choose to deregister if you want to EHE. However, if you haven’t already withdrawn DS, you shouldn’t deregister and EHE even if DS can’t attend. Ignore the school trying to scare you by saying you will be fined.

If you have a finalised EHCP and the mainstream school is not named in section I, DS shouldn’t be on the roll and attending. The LA is responsible for education and the provision in F. Even if it was named in section I, you could decide to EHE. Although, if it was named you would be better not EHEing even if DS was unable to attend and appealing. If you have a finalised EHCP, you must appeal. You should appeal B&F as well as I.

I presume the mediation with the school you mention is not for an EHCP appeal? But something informal? Because mediation for EHCP appeals is with the LA, even if the school attends.

@SpaceInvader321 the CRF doesn’t have to be overly detailed. You can highlight the LA not submitting the school’s statement. I think you said you had settled section I? But if not, the LA’s response should include comparative costs, you can point out if they haven’t/aren’t accurate. You can mention the incoherent nature. Although I would focus more on the outstanding amendments to needs/provision. You don’t need to justify why you didn’t mention amendments at the draft stage.

@BrumToTheRescue The plan has been finalised. I was told by EHCP Team and Inclusion Team - "you cannot remove DS from roll unless you are planning to home educate, have a new school place or moving out of the area and the distance to school would be considered ‘unreasonable.’
Furthermore, if you do decide to electively home educate (EHE) DS the EHCP team will stop consulting for a specialist place for him, as by going EHE you are taking full responsibility for his education."
Yes it was the latter, as I was not aware I had to de-register DS. I spoke with the school's senco and they agreed that not continuing with settle in sessions would be best as they felt DS needed more support than what they could provide, this was also detailed in a letter of observation from the school to use as evidence alongside submitting the EHCP request.
Mediation has been set up as an instruction from Inclusion Team to the school to - "address your concerns and ensure that we can produce a plan to make sure that DS will be happy in school." This meeting seems to be going ahead regardless of the email my advocate sent, and lack of response from EHCP and Inclusion, should I attend? It is scheduled for this coming Monday.

@OnlyHope33 personally, I wouldn’t deregister and EHE even if DS can’t attend. But if section I is blank DS should not be on the roll of the school. If the LA is proposing DS attends the MS they should name it in section I.

I would attend on Monday in the interest of being seen to be engaging. However, don’t let it put you off appealing.

Appeal ASAP.

I would attend the meeting, take the EHCP and ask them to implement it. It is just with the school? I would ask a member of the inclusion team to join if possible so they can discuss with the school why they can't implement the things that are recommended.
If it is just you and school, take someone else with you to take notes if possible or ask to record the meeting. Then afterwards email a copy of your notes to the school "so you are all on the same page".

If you have access to your LA "ordinarily available inclusive practice" document, this lays out what schools are expected to provide even without an EHCP. So start there!

Ask them what is preventing them from supporting your child. Ask them if they have applied for any additional support from the LA.

I hope it goes well, but if not come back and we can help you to re-group and plan next steps...

But the school isn’t named in section I so should not be attending/delivering provision. That is for the LA to do otherwise than at school.

Yes, but until any other provision is named, that is where he is currently on roll and therefore trying to resolve this as a temporary issue is a practical step. I agree that shouldn't be the case but it is what it is. Any steps to force the LA to act properly take time, so working with current provision is an option.
There is always a gap between the point at which a provision is named and the actual start date. If no provision is named, then alongside the work to force them to name appropriate provision, filling the gap with the best you can until then is practical. If they are not willing to help, then you is no worse off and he will stay home until a new provision is named. Hopefully with alternative provision in place from the LA as per section 19....

Because the school is not named in section I, DS should not be on roll and it is not the school’s responsibility. Section I is blank so it is the LA’s responsibility to provide education otherwise than at school and PP would be best focusing on that and an appeal. It is not a matter of it is what it is.

We have had a lovely exchange with the OT who is gearing up to do the assessment but also the first response from one of the professionals asked to consult who has refused:

Entered by XXX on behalf of XXX ( Speech and Language Therapist ) EHCNA is not required as having read the information provided, it is felt XX social communication needs can be met by school under ordinarily available provision in accordance with the descriptors of needs

Which is also bollocks as she was having SALT at school all last term. I can force them to do this yes?

@Phineyj how do I actually message a human through the Portal of Doom for our esteemed LA?

@Macramepotholder yes, go back to the LA. It is also worth contacting the SALT directly so you know they have all the information. The response isn’t sufficient. It doesn’t make sense, anyway. “EHCNA is not required” - the LA has been ordered to undertake a needs assessment, and that needs assessment must include advice and information from anyone you reasonably request the LA seeks advice from. It isn’t for the professionals to decide an EHCNA isn’t required. You could point to the guidance from the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists.

Oh dear @Macramepotholder, sorry you are dealing with this rubbish still!

The only vaguely efficient person I ever dealt with in that SEN unit was a lady called Katherine, but she used to use their general email.

I don't think you can message a human through the portal.

Thanks all- yeah I've at least found the general email address now @Phineyj I seem to have some weird mental block looking at that thing. Still have to fill in all my/DD's sections.

I don't have the SALT's details (our SALT was one employed by the MAT, not the LA) but have sent the LA email reminding them of their legal duty and the SLT guidance and asked they get back within 2 working days, or I have the stroppy complaint letter to the director of children's services ready to go.

You're right it doesn't make sense, I wonder if someone made a mistake and thought they were responding to an initial request for assessment. Sigh.

SENCO hasn't done his response yet but he will detail he thinks all those assessments are needed.

We have EP appointment today. Still waiting on responses from SALT and OT. Response from CAMHS was "nothing to see here".... So case worker chased as she figured if I had specifically asked there must be something to share. They then responded to confirm that they had thrown her off the waiting list so no report to share.... Can anyone point me to the relevant case law / guidance that says " not known to service" is not a reasonable response as I feel I may need it 🤦I recall something about generic advice also not being appropriate?

I have now found the relevant sections. I have been considering emailing the LA to ask them to go back to CAMHS but wonder if there is any point! What I would like is for CAMHS to review the information they hold eg referral info and questionnaires and provide advice based on this. But I am assuming that they are unlikely to actually do this as they haven't so far... Has anyone had a provider actual provide better advice upon complaining?

I feel I need to pick my battles and work out when it is worth kicking up a fuss!