Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

Hi Rycie - it was only really the first night that DS cried for a very long time, and then he seemed more tired/confused/angry than hysterical. He calmed down each time DH went in, then started up again when he left.

The hardest time for me was on night 3 when he cried for something like 12 minutes after we'd gone to bed, so we were right next door to it, and it sounded a bit weird. Next morning he woke up with a cold that has obviously gone to his voice box, so he's making all sorts of different noises. But it was that rather than a special sort of distress. The hardest time for DH was the next morning when we were umming and ahhing about what to do for DS's nap. In the end we decided that he was clearly feeling okay other than sounding a bit funny, so give it a go. And he fell asleep inside 2 mins, so clearly the cold wasn't affecting his sleeping ability. But it was hard for DH to put him down and leave him.

I feel bad writing some of this down, as part of me feels that we have let DS down by not being able to help him sleep without leaving him to get on with it. But a bigger part of me feels that we need him to sleep better and had to give this a try.

Sorry for the ramble, but hope it helps you a bit. Incidentally, according to Ferber it is unusual in his experience for a child to take longer than an hour to fall asleep the first time, so DS is a bit of an outlier apparently.

Hello all. Just popping by to say two words: "sleep" and "disastrous".

And possibly I may add "major", "regression" and "ohgodI'msotiredIwanttocry"

That is all

Aaaah, Kiwi, so sorry, all those nouns/adjectives sound dismal.
It's a phase, it'll pass

Morning everybody.

Last night - no crying at all to report , only one nightfeed and awake for the day just after 6am.

DH and I had agreed that it was time for me to take a turn at doing the visits for daytime naps. DS has been going to sleep within 2 or 3 mins routinely for these with DH, but not sleeping for as long as he would have previously done.

This morning DS fell asleep in the pushchair on the way back from the shops, so I transferred him to his cot. He wasn't quite asleep then, and started some very tired crying. I had to visit at the 3min mark and tuck him back in - he cried more , whereas he seems to cry less when DH has visited before. But as I was going back to do my second visit at the 5min mark he actually stopped crying properly and made a few half-hearted sad sounds and then stopped altogether.

Our theory is that he needed to check the mummy was doing the same thing as daddy, which we'll test this afternoon.

Our other theory is that he's napping less in the daytime now because he's getting more sleep at night.

Incidentally, DS has fallen asleep in his pushchair when it was getting close to a naptime both yesterday and today, yet that is the first time he has done that in probably 3 months.

I think you all know I would not be an advocate for controlled crying, and I certainly couldn't have done it before 8mo. Without DH's help, I'm not sure I could have done it now tbh. But it is looking as if DS has acquired a skill that he just didn't have before, and that his sleeping is that more robust than it was before. We are still also nightfeeding, which I feel positive about (for now at least!).

Hi isitme - great news, and thanks so much for your advice. I'm quite excited at your success and seemingly without too much trauma!

I can understand that you felt bad when writing it down, but it is also because you are describing the hard parts of the process, and not giving descriptions of all the soothing you do as well. Perhaps you will be exiting this thread soon, what a great Christmas present for you!

I really may be trying this in the New Year, at the moment her molars are coming through, then we have MIL coming to stay for a couple of weeks (aarrgh!!) and christmas etc so I want to wait for everything to settle down and to be back in our normal routine.

wELL DONE Isitme - seems you are doing really well and that must be a great feeling. Crying isn't for nothing then? I must go back and read your story again. DS is waking every hour - I wonder if it is just a habit from being ill for so long. All he needs is me to put him back on his tummy and pat his back and he goes to sleep - but next hour same thing. Oh dear....

DH said this morning "let's do something now" so I need a plan.

Thanks everybody, although it's not all going quite as smoothly the last couple of nights - ds's cold now has an occasional cough attached, so don't know if that is an issue.

So Thursday (Night 5) and Friday (Night 6)nights:

Night 5 - no crying at all, and slept right through until 4.45am when he had a feed. Then went back to sleep (although too noisily for me to do so) until just before 6am, then awake for the day.

Night 6 - cried for 3mins about an hour after his bedtime feed. Then woke at 1am for feed. Then woke again at 4.55am, but not making much noise, so we left him hoping he'd go back to sleep - he didn't. So fed him at 5.40, put him back in cot, but didn't go back to sleep.

So I was a bit disappointed with last night, and not sure whether it means anything, or is just a blip.

dycey your ds sounds very like ours had become, and I know I should be really pleased that ds isn't doing that any more. Just perplexed by this early waking, which I personally find one of the hardest things (pre-dc 8am would be my preferred earliest wake up. Now I have been re-trained to find 6am the earliest acceptable time lol).

DH found Ferber's book really helpful in drawing up our plan - he bought the 2nd edition (2006) via Amazon marketplace. Maybe we're a bit weird, but DH put together a proposal document, which I reviewed, and then we finalised it together. My point is, it was helpful to have it all written down, so we were both clear what was planned before you got started. Meant we didn't have debates as we were trying to do it.

After last night, think we need to review what we do with feeds, as I had thought we had got down to one nightfeed, so was reluctant to feed again, although that is what our plan says. This stuff is hard!

Chulita I just came on to see what everyone's up to and realised I'd missed your big announcement! I was wondering yesterday how you and Staines were doing on the ttc front. Congratualtions and I cannot begin to tell you just how I am.

Now that DS is - touch wood - a reasonably reliable sleeper I REALLY want to make a start on DC2 but I am determined to have a year off with the next one and we need to save some money first otherwise there's no way we'll afford it.

I know that in a few months I am just going to say sod it and start ttc anyway; who am I trying to kid that I could ever have the will-power to save anything?

IsItMeOr - As you were cutting down the night feeds, have you found that your baby is hungrier during the day ? Could it be that you need to increase solids during the day ? For example when you fed him at 5.40am, did you then give him solids before the milk at breakfast ? Also is he sleeping much during the day, as once they start to sleep better and longer at night, it is important to cut the daytime sleep back.
Apologies for all the questions, I think you are doing a fantastic job sorting out the night waking, and thought a check list from an onlooker might help !

Thanks priyag - more brains are helpful!

I hadn't particularly noticed DS being hungrier during the day, but he's had a cold this week, so I wondered if his appetite was just down a bit altogether?

I've been offering him bf basically every couple of hours during the day, but he just nibbles most of the time, so I've decided to go to the following pattern:

Wake - BF
7.30ish - solid breakfast (cereal, fruit and yoghurt)
11 (or when he wakes from morning nap) - BF
12ish - solid lunch (main meal of day)
3ish (or when he wakes from afternoon nap) - BF
5 - BF
5.15 - solid tea (usually cheese and carbs heavy)
6.30ish - BF

He's been doing shorter naps than he had. Pre-CC he was probably napping around 2-3 hours over two naps. He's now more than 11/2 hours over two naps.

We're doing Baby-led weaning, hence it takes up to an hour for a solid meal. I do pre-loaded spoons of yoghurt or a dessert at the end of each meal as well.

Any thoughts?

Hi IsItMeOr,

I have glanced quickly through your earlier posts and if I am correct your baby was waking around three times a night, aged eight months at the end of October. Over a month later you have managed to get him going much longer spells of sleeping at night, so I think you have made huge progress, and it is important to hang onto the fact that your baby can now settle himself to sleep without assistance. Because of this I personally believe that he has for genuine reasons woke up twice last night. It is very possible it is because he has a cold, but I also think you should look at his daytime milk feeds. At nearly nine months of age, milk is still important but as he is still needing at least one feed in the night, and you are giving him a further five feeds in the day, I think these feeds could be the reason he is not increasing his solids. My advice would be to class any feed he has between 4am and 6am as his morning feed and go straight into breakfast solids. Then I would suggest that instead of offering him the breast at 11am you do an early lunch, then offer him a breast feed after. I would then offer him a breastfeed between 2.30 and 3pm so it does not put him off solids at teatime. Then offer him solids at 5pm, and a breastfeed just before bed.

He will still be having four to five breastfeeds a day, but at times that will not put him off his solids. I know you are babyled weaning, but after his main meals would you not consider something some baby rice or cereal to help fill him up more ? Against BLW principles I know but if it helped it him sleep longer it may be worth the compromise.

Hope the above helps.

Lol, don't be feral, I feel so crap at the mo it's ridiculous. Having DD so active as well is pretty tricky. Thankfully she tends to sleep through til about 6 most days but I'm going to bed around 8:30pm at the moment! And I'm off tea/coffee/most foods except chips, going to be huge by July
Happy sleep vibes to all!

Well done Isitme, I am sure it won't all be smooth sailing and there are bounmd to be set backs. When you tslk about your first night feed is that one that he wakes for or do you do a dream feed kind of thing?

Last night better for us - he went from 8pm til 2pm (but then started the wakey stuff from 4am - which involved lots of patting and some extra bfeeds and he slept til 7am).

Have cut down on bfeeding and now winding down so he will be used to formula. So sad. But work looms.

Guess it is time to stop the night feeds very soon. If someone could just tell me it works (whatever method) I would just do it. For some reason I just don't believe he will ever sleep without feeds - he has conditioned me after nearly 10 months! Must use my brain.

Hope there are some other good nights experienced out there.

dycey I stopped giving DD her night feeds at 10 mths. She used to have 3, around 11, 2 and 4 then the morning one, I knocked it down to one at about 1am and then stopped giving her that and it worked for us. Since the 10 day hell of convincing her she didn't need the night feed, she's slept through reliably unless she's teething/ill. So for us, dropping the night feed definitely worked. (disclaimer: this is IME with one LO!)

Not been on for ages, but not because sleep is getting better DD had a few nights of only waking once (at 1am) between 7pm and 5am, which I could cope with, but then she got sick a week and a half ago (coincided with going to my Mum's, so strange cot and all that) - had a really bad chesty cough and cold and cutting a tooth too. So, she ended up in my bed each night at Mum's (was there without DH) and we got some okay sleep, but felt like I moved backwards with her in my bed. Took well over a week for her to get better and she was really off solids, so has been a slow 3 days since she started taking solids again and hope we will get back to some sort of improvement again now. I know that she is not going to go through the night given that she is not eating loads, but some semblance of being better at settling would be good. Had a bad night last week where I couldn't get her to settle and had to leave the room for a bit and also shouted at her and now think that she has an issue with her room, so am trying to go softly, softly with the settling and ease her back in. In my defence, I did get my first period for 18 months the next day, so think I also had really bad PMT to contend with

Anyway, am watching how you are getting on IsItMeOr - you seem to be doing really well, but think CC is still not for us at the mo. I now have 5 weeks 'til am back at work (albeit only 3 days per week for first 7 weeks), so am going to work on her solids intake and on reducing bfing during day (would be ideal if she is only feeding morning and evening when I go back - she will be v.v. nearly 10 months by then, so don't think that is unrealistic). Also figure that nursery will have their own way of getting her to nap, so we're going to continue with trying the nap in am and pm, which seems to be working and work on her getting back to not needing so much help to get off to sleep (am trying to encourage her to suck her thumb like her brother, as that worked wonders for him and still does ), so nursery is not too much of a shock. Can't believe I am so nervous about both of them being at nursery now - DS went to childminder when he was 7 months and I went back to work and I don't remember being this nervous. Maybe it is to do with still bfing and never having been apart from her more than for a trip to the shops yet...

Anyway, waffling and really should be heading to bed if I am to get up with DD at 5am tomorrow...

Wishing you all a good night's sleep.

Meant to say - Congrats Chulita. Am sure tiredness is being pg - honestly, the tiredness of pg especially once you've already got a DC is harder than even the tiredness of not getting sleep, it will pass soon and won't last for all of your pregnancy.

Isitme - hope you are ok ? You have been doing so well, hope that you are not giving up on all the great work - take care. Do post an update so we can keep supporting you and your baby.
xxx

Thanks priyag - as you suspected, all is going slightly less well the last couple of nights. DS has a cold with an occasional cough, and has his first top tooth coming through (so the other is probably not far behind). We've had one of those weird awake in the night spells both nights, and he's been unsettled. We've not really known what to do when he's doing that...tried to comfort him/administer calpol quickly, and then put him back in his cot to do his stuff, but not sure it was the right thing to do - feel like such a meany.

I tried your suggestion yesterday re. solids and BFs, and DS certainly seemed hungry by lunch and tea - maybe I didn't bring them forward enough! Hard to know whether his appetite is simply improving because he's beginning to get over cold/teething [fingers crossed emoticon].

Hopefully he'll be feeling better soon, and go back to his better sleeping ways.

I can't remember who said about doing the CC before they can sit/stand, but we just got it in in the nick of time, as he greeted us standing in his cot on Saturday after his nap. He looked very pleased with himself indeed.

We have now lowered the cot!

Thanks Chulita, think will do the stopping night feeds in a week when I am back from my parents'.... hope he works it out in a week (10 days was long for you wasn't it?) as we are off on hols atfer that. Time pressures now.

Bad luck about the cold and teeth Isitme, isn't that just always the way? I reckon I am lucky if we get aweek without either teeth or cold.

It was 10 days over all before she slept through but only about 4 or 5 days before she stopped the marathon crying at feeding time. It felt like ages though! I made sure I wrote it down so I wouldn't end up telling people it took 3 months to break the habit

Why oh why did I post about him not standing up and crying? Obviously that is what he is now doing instead of napping!

Thanks Chulita, that gives me a bit more courage!

Isitme - I think it was me who said that about standing up and crying - it is annoying because it feels worse to leave them but I have done it occasionally when he is beyond tired and eventually they lie down again! Oh dear oh dear, I hate the napping thing more than the nights I think. My DS never seems tired and will not relax (unless sucking or in pushchair) and then spills over into overtired crying. But I just have decided to agree with myself that I have done it WRONG and put up with it. Next baby will be popped in cot and left to burble at mobile from early age so he/she won't be sad when left alone!

Anotehr question Chulita, did you go in and out, or send DH/P in or give water or stay with her during those crying times? MANY THANKS - I just need to sort out my strategy and feel confident with it.

I went in and out, DH doesn't wake up at night so he wasn't much use. I'd go in, pick her up and cuddle her (supposedly til she stopped crying but she didn't always stop) then go out, shut the door and sit on the landing outside her room. With DD she did let out bloodcurdling screams when I first put her down and she realised she wasn't getting milk, I'd have to grit my teeth and be brave After I'd counted a few minutes through I'd go back in, I don't think I left her more than 3 mins tbh and the longest crying session was probably no longer than about 25 mins.
I remember after about 3 days saying to DH that I couldn't keep doing this and we'd have to stop, but I didn't want to waste the hard work, and about 2 nights later she settled within 5 mins so that was a huge encouragment!

Oh, and I did offer her water to start with but she wasn't bothered.

(and there's an 'e' in encouragement...)