Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

hello all - teething here too and he has started to bite me if the milk has finished / he has finished.... quite annoying.

So sleep is going the way of all teething babies.... and not feeding in the night is a distant dream. All the time wondering how to do it though. DH thinks I should stop breastfeeding altogether and this will crack it - am thinking about it but sad to stop. Also fear not having the amazing soothing / get him to sleep power.

He is absolutely refusing to nap - even if let cry for quite a while - will only nap if fed to sleep or motion. Is this par for the course for teething????

dycey I think generally they just want more contact, more cuddles so I guess feeding comes under that. DD not been too fretful today so I'm hoping for a calmer night. She's waking already, better go get a bottle!

[waves at Iwascyteenagewerewolf]

Thought I would also come and bring some hope to your new thread - can't believe the original hit 1,000! I was the originator of the old 6-month thread, way back in April. My DS is now 14 mo and I can report that he mostly sleeps through until 6am every night. (For many months it was 5.20 so this is progress!) So seven hours sleep may be closer than you think.

Luck and sleep dust to you all - the little buggers darlings seem to all get there in the end.

arti & iwas thanks for the encouragement, means a lot!

Morning all. We came home early from my parents after DS woke up every 30-40 mins on Saturday night until 10, then slept for 2 hours, then awake for 2 and a half hours, then slept for 2 and a half hours, then awake for half hour, then slept for not quite an hour and awake for the day. We decided to just bundle him into carseat at bedtime and drive the 2-3 hours home instead of staying another night. DS was very upset at this turn of events, and took 45mins to fall asleep, but he did sleep. Then woke when DH tried to transfer him, so I fed him and off he went. He slept for SIX HOURS!!! This is unheard of. Was a bit unsettled after his 4.30am feed, and DH had to go to him 3 times, but eventually he went back to sleep until 7.20am.

So not sure what this is all about, but encouraging to know that IsItMeBaby can sleep for longer stretches.

Arti and iwas

HELP!

please please tell me how you did it? seriously. My dd is now officially 1 whole year old and still waking 6 - 8 times a night. Not feeding at all, bad sleep habits.
Have tried many techniques include a disastrous attempt at controlled crying with little success. Been working on no cry sleep solutions and was making progress, then she got sick and am back to square 1. Am getting desperate !

Did they just miraculously sleep through by themselves, or did you do controlled crying? Please have some words of wisdom for me!!

Hello Rycie - I wish I had an easy answer for you. My DS dropped the night feeds at 8 months and then woke for the day at 5.20am religiously for the next 5 months (I know that probably sounds like heaven to you but it was a PITA and I developed a morbid hatred of the Teletubbies!) I haven't done CC although have several friends that swear by it (why did it not work for you BTW?) Have you tried gradual withdrawal? We did have success with this when DS suddenly started going mad at bedtime. It's not a quick fix and can take several weeks but if CC doesn't work it might be worth a go (and it's not traumatic for anyone, just very boring for the parents!) I also recommend a book called Teach Yourself Baby Sleep by Andrea Grace (she has a good website too).

Hope you all get some good sleep soon.

Hi All, Was on the old thread, but not managed to have time to post yet on this one. Sympathies to you all. Sometimes I think we're improving and sometimes I just think that nothing is changing. DD seems to have settled into a pattern of down at about 7pm, up somewhere between 10 and 11 - nappy change, feed, back to sleep - up somewhere between 2.30 and 3 then back down until anywhere between 5.30 and 7 (7 only usually when I've fallen asleep feeding her at previous feed and then she's only been in her cot for about 2 hours.

IsItMe - totally agree with you on making yourself miserable over things that don't really matter. I am making myself stressed about it all, when DD is actually quite happy.

Actually ended up crying when talking to HV today - am just stressed about her eating and wanting her to be eating 3 good meals a day, so I can cut at least one of her night feeds out. Think it is teething that is doing it at the moment - it has taken her 2 weeks (of them being actually visible poking through gum), for 1 of her bottom teeth to cut through. I really hope they don't all take this long! Ah - see, I knew I'd curse it - she woke 40 mins after going down, had a burp, but was just sobbing her heart out - really think these teeth are troubling her (whispers - I fed her back to sleep....)

HV thinks that I should not feed her at 2.30/3am when she wakes and then she would be hungrier for brekkie... just don't know if I've got the strength to try that out. She's only 7.5 months - those of you who have stopped night feeds, when did you all think that yours were getting enough during the day to not need feeding at night? Right, really must get some ironing done...

Thanks arti - i am doing a version of gradual withdrawal (I think ) and have managed to get her to fall asleep in her cot rather than in my arms, but have been stuck at the side of the cot with her for the past 3 months! I think perhaps I need to be a bit firmer - I also have a bit of a dummy problem!

Oh, and with regards to cc, it wasn't too bad at all during the nights but the days were disastrous - she pooed everywhere she got so upset and just got increasingly hysterical, nd by the end of it we were all crying . it was bad advice from a professional sleep trainer - and advice that I took. I think if I had just tried it at night and not during the day it may have worked, my problem is that I'm now so terrified of letting her cry I'm being a bit soft.

Anyway, thanks for your advice, all I can do is keep at it!

Sympathies to all my 18 month old sleeps from around 9 till 7 and still wakes at least 3 times, the 1st wake i usually walk and rock but it takes ages... Then co sleep... I know i know dont tut tut but its what gets us the most sleep. Iv tried not bfing at night but he jus stays awake for hours... My ds1 only started to sleep through when i stopped bf but ds2 is addicted and i dont even know how im gona wean him...

Hello Poohbearsmom - you'll find no judging here from me. Hope you and ds2 find your ways to sleeping through soon, you must be exhausted.

Hey all,
I've been an occasional contributor to this thread (after having come from the 4-5 month sleep thread) and am finally beginning to see the light at the end of a very deep, dark tunnel.
DS has just turned 10 months and for the last 4 nights, has been sleeping without so much as a peep from 7-6. Since birth, he's been a rubbish sleeper and we've had just about every sleep problem in the book: multiple night wakings, needing to feed to sleep, early wakings, refusal to nap etc. etc.
At about 6.5 months, I realised that his night feedings were habitual and that he was using BF more to get back to sleep then for nutrition. He was a good weight and was beginning to enjoy solid foods. Sleep Trainer1 explained healthy babies need about 24 hours to readjust their feeding cycle i.e. what they no longer get at night, they'll make up for during the day. She advised PU/PD to get him off the night feeds and recommended that DH do it (as he is not associated with feeding). It was tough, but we cracked it in about 5 nights. I added another BF to his day in order to ensure that he was getting enough food, but I'm not sure if this was entirely necessary.
The problem was that he was still waking up, although didn't want food. Usually, it was just a cuddle and PU/PD, and he'd be off asleep again, but it was a total pain and would happen loads at night. We played along for a few months and then had no idea what to do. Enter Sleep Trainer2. AT this point, he was 9 months old, and eating well. Sleep Trainer2 confirmed what we already suspected... He just couldn't get back to sleep after waking up and had become dependent on us in order to do so. His lack of self settling was also why he was a habitual early waker (as dawn is when it is hardest for babies to get back to sleep) and only had maddening short naps. In order to improve all of this, we had to get him to self settle at bedtime (when all the correct sleep cues are in place) and then night wakings, followed by early risings and naps would all sort themselves out. This was a bit of an epiphany. DH and I are both wimps and were both terrified of anything remotely close to CC so she recommended gradual retreat: patting to soothe him and NOT picking him up at night. After 3 weeks of getting nowhere with this (he became addicted to patting!!), the realisation hit us: we needed to be more aggressive.
I know that CC is viewed here with much disdain (always hated the idea myself), but we were desperate. Plus, we'd tried everything else. Things at home were becoming awful, and we were both going mad with exhaustion.
Sleep Trainer2 knew we were both pathetic and suggested that rather then leave him to cry for the usual 5, 10, 15 minutes minutes, we return after 1 minute and repeat / increase intervals as and when we could. Thankfully, we never got the 2 hour scream fests that both of us were expecting. It never took more than 20 minutes, and he was never left for more than 90s, but it wasn't ever even remotely easy. We did this every bedtime, naptime, night waking (anything before 6am). but 2 weeks on (he's a stubborn one!) I can say that bedtimes are more chilled out (a few minutes of fussing is the most we get) and he's beginnning to get back to sleep at 5am when he wakes up. I know that CC is not for everyone, and that I will be accused by many of being a cruel, negligent and horrible mother, but frankly, exhaustion wasn't exactly doing my parenting skills a great favour either. ANyway, will stop rambling now.

Wow superdanovi - that sounds really tough (what you've been through, not what you've done lol), so well done for sticking with it and finding something that seems to be working for you all.

We're going to be trying to reduce nightfeeding next week - DH is having the week off so that we should in theory have more staying power than our usual 10mins. I am desperately hoping that IsItMeBaby is ready to change his ways at 8mo.

Thanks for sharing your story, as it does help to know that others also struggle with this (and that CC seems to have worked with much shorter gaps for you - I am a mega-wimp and am only just beginning to concede that we may need to try CC if nothing else helps).

Where do you find Sleep Trainers, out of interest?

hi all,

We're still here as well. We gave up night feeds 2 weeks ago with some CC at 10 months old. He slept through for 5 nights and I thought we had it cracked but then went all wrong again. I was sure he didn't need night feeds, never rooting for boob, hardly sucked, but I would have been happy to continue them if he went back to sleep afterwards, but it no longer worked so it seemed the right thing to cut it out and see if that worked.

The problem is is that I don't know if he is in pain etc or just waking up and I don't want to take chances. He goes off from awake fine at the beginning of the night, it's the middle of the night wakings that are a problem. And they are a problem because he won't go back to sleep for 2 odd hours. I try lieing down with him on spare bed, in main bed, in his cot, rocking, walking, everything. My back is killing and I need sleep! No idea what to do and don't want to continuously keep doing CC, it was meant to be a wonder cure!

Oh thank goodness I've found you all. Can barely see straight, but reading all these posts has given me some comfort.

DS used to be pretty ok at sleeping at night (has always been a rubbish daytime napper - takes some serious dedication to get him to sleep for longer than 40 mintues) until around about 4 months, when everything went boobs up.

Now every night is a little adventure, more the kind that you'd pay anything not to go on rather than one with a cave full of treasure at the end. I've no idea what to expect. His best effort the other night was waking every 45 mins, all night. I've no idea why - he just seemed to be having a hard time getting himself back to sleep. It's totally random - sometimes he'll stir a bit, even quite a big bit, and manage to get himself back to sleep.

I think that one of the problems is that he's started to have a big feed or two during the night and much less in the daytime, when he's ridiculously easily distracted (not sure what came first). I read a number of things that say "feed more in the day" but this is easier said than done as he's just not that interested often times, & I don't know how to break the cycle. For a few nights I tried to shorten the first feed of the wee small hours, but he just woke sooner wanting to eat more. I'm so *&^$%%( tired that I've ended up letting him feed for as long as he wants in the hope that it might secure me a few hours unbroken sleep (I can but dream).

Anyone got any advice re: the night feeding?

I won't even begin on the other random through-the-night stirrings, the seductive ease with which he seems to drop off again with a bit of shushing and patting only to stir again about 10 minutes later, time after time, the oh so early mornings with me waking to the sound of DS squiggling his legs like a dog dreaming of chasing rabbits and patting the bed with gusto (he's learnt to do alternate arms now so it's a current fave)...

Superdanovi - well done. Long may it continue.

Thanks to Iwas and Arti for speaking to us from "the other side" too. (Arti - I think I know you in RL )

Kiwi - when you find that baby strait jacket, can you order one for me too please? I have actually considered staple-gunning DS's gro-bag to the mattress on more than one occasion.

IsItMeOr - good luck for next week. We did 3 nights of dad-settling and it worked in that we've now stopped the night feeds (although I'm too chicken to stop the dream feed). DS is still waking up though - but at least it's a step in the right direction.

It's been a mixed bag of nuts with us - a couple of horrendous nights over the weekend, but last night was better again. Not great though, but DS still has hacking cough which is waking him up and still producing pints of snot, so am not expecting much until he's better.

Welcome to the new posters - hope you don't have to stick around long!

[Sospan - oh really?! Gawd, I am forever getting Mumsnet-outed by RL friends - and I only ever post about sleep and books! If you met your DH at uni and have an old cat, I think I know who you are ...will be in touch...xx]

[Arti - yes, that's me, (although old cat now sadly re-homed...). Just to double-check, and am sure this won't out you to anyone else, do you do a damn fine version of the Wurzels' Blackbird song?? ]

Another rubbish sleeper here!

DS (1 YO) settles OK for his evening sleep, wakes up around 10/11 for a feed, used to settle back in his cot but no longer does so we've been co-sleeping. Oh for a couple of hours without him in bed to stretch out and cuddle up to DH!

It's sweet in the morning when he wakes up and "chats" though. Yesterday he lifted his head up, smiled and signed milk. So cute.

The mind boggles...co-sleeping just sounds like an oxymoron to me
Rycie - we used CC for the night wakings but not for naps. If DD doesn't want to nap I give her a bit of burbling time and then get her up again for a bit. If I put her in bed and she screams I take that to mean that she's not ready for sleep. I do think that dropping the night feed was the nail in the coffin for bfing. DD had been slowing down big style but had a huge feed in the middle of the night. When I "encouraged" her to drop that feed she dropped the rest.
SuperD, I'm glad things seem to be getting better - no shame in using CC, sometimes needs must!
DD's new thing is crying til I pick her up and then snuggling into me with her thumb in her mouth. So cute! Even at 2am it's hard to put her back in bed, it's the only time I get a cuddle from her at the moment!

Oh dear, not sure if I should keep reading these, as I'm going round in circles about what is the "right" thing to try. Now I know, there really is no "right" thing in some part of my brain, but it's not very near to the top .

Okay, current plan for next week is to try and stretch the gaps between night feeds by 30mins each night for five nights. That should get us from current position of up to 3 feeds a night to just 1 night feed.

I really don't want to fully wean DS at all just yet, so I am hoping that this approach might mean that he has one really good feed at night. He has dropped down to one breast only now for all night feeds, and is seeming increasingly sleepy/slow in taking that (took an hour for one of them the other night ). I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that this means DS is ready to do something a bit different so that he gets more sleep. He does seem tired with all the night waking.

IsItMeOr - just do what you and your DS feel happy with or what seems to work for you. I did not want to wean DD before 12mths but it happened because she wanted to. If I'd kept the one big night feed I think she'd still be going but hey ho, we were only about 5 weeks off

IsItMeOr - for what it's worth, DS has gone through periods of not feeding at night (for about 2 months when he was 4.5 months and now for about 10 days). However, it's not affected his appetite for boob in the day whatsoever. He is still totally addicted and will take any opportunity for a quick feed (e.g. when I take him swimming he'll try and pull my frumpy sexy mum costume aside and try and have a go). Nice. So it may not have any effect at all.

Superdanovi - we have been doing a version of "Wimps CC" too - leaving him for intervals of a minute (can usually only get to 3 mins before I'm in tears too ). What I'm not sure about is how long to stay with him when I go back in. A quick pat and leave again? Or wait until he's a bit calmer / sleepy? (He's also addicted to patting and I've patted him for 30 mins only for him to scream the second I left the room). Any tips?

[Sospan - hahaha, it's been a while! Maybe I'm due a visit to reprise it... ]

FWIW my DS stopped night feeds at 8 months but I continued to feed him until he was 13.5 months. He was never the biggest boob-lover anyway but if it was still on offer, he'd take it. But, as ever, they are all different...

Thanks Chulita, Sospan and artifarti for your reassuring words.