Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

It's all swings and roundabouts isn't it? A week ago I was posting about 13 hour sleeps which DD did for a whole week but now we're back to night wakings culminating in last night's shenanigans...she's also coming up to the 12 month point when apparently molars start coming through - help!

Hi all, been full or temperature and horribly sore throat so haven't really managed to do much recently (but thanks for the chicken soup Superd!)

Glad to hear that ministaines is better. Feralchild scared the hell out of me a couple of weeks back with a temp of 39.9 Bloody terrifying!

DS has been sleeping through though until 5am-ish most nights though. Weird how, a few months ago, anything before 7am was too early. Then slowly the goalposts shifted to anything before 6am being unacceptable. Now if he wakes up at 5.30 I sigh, shrug and just get going.

I too am in the corner with Chulita, twitching and fretting about molars though. DS has got 8 teeth already and the next two are definitely on their way so I don't think it's going to be long before the big buggers make an appearance.

Staines, it's been a while since I thought about the commune

Not posted on here recently (I think - but who knows through the sleep deprived fog?!), but still not sleeping through (needless to say). DD will be 8 months end of next week, but is being slow to take solids on (she also is only 16lbs, so am taking it easy on her getting overly settled), so haven't tried cutting out the night feeds yet...

Can I ask those of you who went the Baby Led Weaning route - what did you class as 3 solid meals a day? We have done a mixed approach as DD did seem like she needed solids and needed purees to get enough in her. Now though, she is far preferring finger foods, but we're still offering purees too as again, she's not taking loads in. She's following her centile (25th) and we are being very careful with allergenic foods as lots of food intolerances in my family and while I've been bfing any dairy or egg I've eaten has caused her to be sicky (meaning I haven't eaten hardly any for 7 months - each time I've had some, she's then been sick a few times that day). So, she's really only taking on board fruit and veggies, with some gluten, dairy and egg free bread and she did yesterday have some of my (free from) fish finger - which she loved, so no idea why she won't have any of my lovingly prepared cod and sweet potato puree?!

Ah well, am waffling, there disturbs DD now...

Ooh, I wanna hear more about this commune...
We've had an epically crap 24 hours. DH and I spent most of it crying/fighting/in a catatonic state, while DH screamed the place down. Absolutely awful...
Anyway, glad that Stainesbaby and fg are better.
. Just wanted to check in. It's now 9pm so waaaay past my bedtime...

Starshine DD is fully-BLW. I'd say I class three solid meals a day as ones where she sits in her high chair munching away for about half an hour, I try not to pay too much attention otherwise cos she eats far more if I just leave her alone to get on with it. Actually I've started giving an increasingly large snack at about this time of day as the gap between lunch and dinner seems quite long to me! She shows no sign of wanting to give up any breastfeeds though, no matter how much she eats, which is making me despair for her nursery days... She's between 2nd and 9th centile BTW so I know what you mean about not wanting to force too much non-feeding at night, she is so very little..

Have had a few better nights anyway, going through to 4/5, feeding, then back to sleep again. My trouble now is that I can't get back to sleep again at that time, which is annoying. Ungrateful to complain after months of FAR worse nights but I do wish I could sleep a bit more as I'm back at work quite soon and seem to need LOADS of sleep these days.

Oops posted before I meant do Superdan that sounds horrible and I hope today has bought a happier relationship, a happier baby and many s. Poor you, arguing saps your energy and god knows the little ones do that enough to start with...

Superdan - sorry for your horrid 24 hours - could it be teeth?! DD woke every hour last evening (which she hasn't done for a while - she was really sobbing and not particularly bothered by boob - although she'll take it if offered of course!), I ended up with her in bed with me and she did 11-4.30 no probs (of course I didn't

Thanks for advice on BLW Kiwi. DD unlikely to sit 30 mins in highchair on own, but might give it a try. She went better with lunch - had a chew on sausage, little carrot, little courgette, then gave up - got down, had a poo, then wolfed down some veggie and some fruit puree

Has declined mid-afternoon bf, which surprised me, but now I'm holding out until tea-time to make sure she's hungry for it. Aspire to being able to be hard-minded about not feeding between 11pm and 5am, but may have to wait for this teething to pass (btw - calpol did absolutely nothing to comfort her last night!)

superd, hope you had a lovely early night and that the bloody fireworks didn't disturb you. i have given up and am embracing my inner grumpy old woman.

last night was a treat. i went to bed nice and early whilst dh went to the pub for a couple with one of our friends. i was awoken at 11.30 by the most awful groaning - two thoughts crossed my mind 1) dh is doing something indecent downstairs much louder than he ever does with me or 2) dh has been stabbed on the way home. when i went downstairs he was doubled over the toilet in immense pain and our friend - who'd driven him home after dh started crawling as he couldn't walk any more - was in a state of panic. we thought he must have appendicitis as he was in such distress and no visible reason for it. so we all went to a&e for 3 hours. me, dh, ds, our friend and his wife. luckily dh stopped being sick as soon as we got to hospital (of course).

ds was so good whilst we were there - bless him - that he had to make me pay for it today by being extra grizzly and insisting that he be allowed full access to the dvd player and sky box. i am glad that today's over!!!

finally, re the commune, it will be heavenly, but i can't go into it now, and would like to suggest that everyone comes up with a wish list commune item. mine is a library with window seats.

Hope the babies are all feeling better now - sounds like scary stuff. Also hope Mr Massif is feeling better - do you know what it was? Just what you all need - illness on top of no sleep. Rubbish.

Superd - keep the faith! DS can sleep through the night and will do it again.

Not great here either I'm afraid. But am currently in acceptance mode so it doesn't bother me and as DH doesn't have any teeth yet I don't have to worry about teething either. La, la, la...

Oh, and for the commune, apart from the luxurious and warm sound-proofed bedroom of course, I would like.... no sorry, can't think of anything else, too sleep obsessed at the moment.

Thanks for the messages of support all. I love this thread.
DS seems intent on messing with my mind. After the horror that was this weekend, he slept through last night till 5, when I lay him back down in his cot expecting all hell to break loose... only to hear him singing quietly to himself, and then nothing... till 0630.
But that's not all. He went down for a nap (albeit after howling for 20 minutes) and he's been sleeping for OVER TWO HOURS. He hasn't napped like this since he was 11 weeks old. WTF???

Hello all, need to go back and catch up on all recent messages but just thought I'd update... DD was getting into a pattern last week after our latest teethingn time, naps at 9 and 3 (have put het back to sleep successfully if she only had 20 mins). Dream feed at 10 ish, Dd waking for nappy change and another bottle between 2 and 4, waking for day around 6. Not brilliant but predicatble which is easier. Now tho we have another stinking cold and she can barely breath poor love. Am off to purchase something to inhale soon as shops open! Will dose her up with Calpol too and hope she sleeps a bit today... Should do, she hasn't slept more than an hour stretch tonight :-(

jgm we're in the same boat. Baby Chulita has completely lost the use of her olfactory senses since Saturday and has been such hard work. Constantly crying/grizzling, not wanting to nap [sigh] If she feels anything like I do, I can't blame her, DH brought back a winter nasty from work and he got over it last weekend with lots of love and attention from moi, now he's at work and DD and I are struggling through it. Argh! It's a proper grotty, chesty cough, headachey miserable cold
superd babies always make you out to be a liar. No sooner do you say "she loves weetabix" than she spits it out all over MIL or "she's not sleeping through" and she stays quietly in bed til 7am...only when there are guests though
Muffins round mine this morning, anti-grolly masks available on request!

Hello all, sounds like everybody has been having some pretty tough times. Just wanted to update on our plan to try and reduce night feeds with ds while dh has a week off work.

Naturally ds started teething again at the end of last week, so Thursday and Friday daytimes were pretty hellish - he seems to do a bit better at night, so just the usual 4/5/6/whatever wakings.

So we didn't try anything Friday night, but ds seemed a lot better on Saturday, so we decided to try and stretch his gaps between nightfeeds to 3 and a half hours. Actually seemed to go okay.

So on Sunday, we tried for four hour gaps. Ds was awake for about 3 hours from 10.30 to 1.30. The only way we could eventually get him to go to sleep and stay asleep was to put him in our bed between us (he went on top of the covers in his grobag). And he miraculously went to sleep and stayed that way until after 4.

Now, you're wondering about how we did on the nightfeeds, aren't you? Well, after I had initally fed him at 10.30, DH tried to settle him to sleep for almost an hour, then asked me to take over. And dopey IsItMeOr fed ds, then part way through thought, hmm, not supposed to be doing this am I. Never mind. Anyway, then misread the time when ds woke up after 4 and dh tried to resettle him for 20 minutes, until we realised it had been almost 5 hours since poor ds had anything to eat. So not a great success all in.

He was very teethy again yesterday, so last night we just tried to stick at 4 hours, and managed that, but he was awake about an hour for one of his feeds.

He's teethy again today, so not sure what we'll try tonight. Maybe just try and stick at 4 hours again.

But this is definitely a bit of progress as we're definitely down to two night feeds again now.

Great news IsItMeOr, glad you're back to 2 feeds, thinking of you. Tis tough when there's other things going on, cold, teething etc.

Chulita , yes read about your illness, yuk, thankfully hubby n I have escaped this one so far, tis very snotty. I put sone vapour rub in dd bath tonight along lavender oil. She hasn't woken since 6.30, now approaching 8.30 so hopefully she'll make it to 10 fir feed ad normal. Dd only got 2 bottom front teeth so far, not looking forward to any of the others arriving, as you say I've heard molars are the worst :-/

sospan I do patting and gradually decrease the beats until my hand is sitting on dd then remove it slowly. can take a few mins.

Thanks jollygreenmama we're having quite a bit of awake time at night at the mo, although not much by the standards on this thread .

DH and I have both independently been thinking about when my mat leave ends, and feeling anxious about it. Although on teethy days, work would be a blessed relief...

Hello all - been absent as teething turned into stomach bug and misery for DS - then stomach bug for me and DH (that is the toughest weekend we've had - both faint with exhaustion and ill baby needing constant distraction) then stinking, stinking, stinking cold for DS which was snot then terrible cough then ear infection. So giving up night feeds is not an issue at the mo (but well done Isitmeor on your progress!)

SYMPATHY for anyone who has a coldy baby! It is rubbish.

I am just SO glad am still bfing as some days DS has just wanted to lie and bf - otherwise he would have thrashed about crying in my arms. POOR BABIES. The winter sucks.

He hasn't eaten anything other than yoghurt and a bit of apple pureee for a week. Should I be worried?

Hope it all gets better all round.

IsItMeOr - know what you mean about mat leave ending.... it looms large at the back of the mind doesn't it? I was always thinking of course DS would sleep through by then, by one or whatever, now not so sure...... Ah well. I feel a resigned inertia coming over me.

Ok, we just had the first good night for a long time. DD went to bed at her usual 5pm, then for some odd reason woke up at 11 but all I had to do was give her back her beddy bear and she was out like a light til 6:30 Wednesday night was awful, she was up twice and started the day at half 5 but hopefully with the cold finally gone we might start getting back to a decent sleep routine...til the teeth come
She is in the habit of having 2 deelicious 2 hour naps at the moment, I'm getting spoilt rotten!
Hope everyone is surviving!

Chulita wow, that sounds fantastic. Really hope it lasts for you.

We had a better day yesterday, so decided to try and stretch the gaps between feeds again last night. We actually achieved the gaps we were aiming for - 51/2 and 41/2 - but with lots of short wakes all over the place, so DH was in and out of bed a lot. A few of them are focused around his old feed times, rather than ends of sleep cycles, so we're hoping that will resolve itself after a couple more nights on this new feeding pattern. This is where we want to stick for now until we have the capacity to stretch him to just one night feed.

Fingers crossed he will settle into this new night regime over the weekend.

dycey we are very very lucky that we can afford to live on one salary, so need to decide whether we both work part-time or I apply for a career break. It's the lack of brain function to make a decision that I'm finding the hardest I think.

OMG!

I've been reading through your threads and am wide mouthed!

I was hoping to get some help for my friend who's 6.5 DD (who weighs 18.5 lbs) hasn't let her sleep through the night in I can't remember how long.
For example, DD has a FF a 12, wakes at 2 and demands a BF (which is just for comfort), wakes at 4 & has a FF, then at 6 demands another BF....and she's like this everynight! The FF's offered are 8oz but she never finishes them.
My poor dear friend is a mess...
Is there any web pages with info on what to try or do you have any advice I can give her...?

startingagain your poor friend. Half the problem with sleep issues is that there are loads of advice manuals on how to get your baby to sleep but you have no time to read them when you're that sleep-deprived, plus if you do, you realise that there are very different philosophys of how you go about it. And that's before you add in that all babies are unique.

Does your friend have a partner who could help with trying to settle her DD at night? That's a good start to help to try to reduce the comfort BFing (if your friend is sure DD isn't hungry). Her partner will need to be prepared to comfort their DD for long spells in the night, although in practice it might not take long for her to settle back to sleep.

You'll have seen from my contributions that we're trying to reduce night feeding, and as we're convinved DS is actually hungry at night, we're trying to gradually stretch the gaps between his feeds. This is supposed to be kinder than just dropping the feeds...but it all went a bit pear-shaped last night with DS virtually inconsolable from 10-11.30pm despite not having fed at that time for almost a week .

Once you're confident they're not hungry at night, you can more readily try some of the approaches to encourage them to self-settle back to sleep, so they don't need your help.

This is where the philosophy really comes into play, so your friend will need to decide which sort of approach suits her and her family best (controlled crying, cry it out, no-cry sleep solutions, co-sleeping, etc, etc). There are books about all of these (and we have most of them lol). Something like The Baby Sleep System by Wendy Dean is a fairly short introduction that sets out a lot of the different interventions and has an online support forum (but I've been too tired to ever get around to using it, so can't really comment on that).

Morning - I seem to have scared everybody off...

Last night was different, but still not great. Technically only had one night feed, but that's because DS didn't go back to sleep after I fed him at 5.15. He and DH are now back in bed.

As a number of you reported, he is still waking loads despite the reduced night feeding. DH tells me (he keeps notes - not sure it's entirely helpful) that DS woke about every hour last night.

We're now feeling really low as DH goes back to work tomorrow, and no idea how we're going to survive all this night waking. DH has been doing almost all the wakes this week, so I'm thinking that I'll need to do at least some when he's back at work. Poor DS looks totally wrecked this morning .

I don't know what to do to help him, but DH thinks it may be time for controlled crying. I suspect he's right. I'm thinking of trying to get DS an appointment with the osteopath, in the vain hope that they may be able to find something wrong with him that they can fix [clutching at straws emoticon].

Hope you are having some better nights.

Oh IsItMe that sounds awful. I have lurked on here rather than posted as while 8m DD doesn't sleep through the night I do usually get a 5-6 hour stretch between 11-5. So I know I have nothing to complain about compared to some. I don't have any bright ideas I'm afraid other than just trying to hang on to the fact it won't last forever. But I feel your pain and will have fngers crossed for you this week.

Feeling a bit better now, thanks DrCosyTiger, as DS has at least had a couple of naps (he's asleep at the mo). Poor thing is just really struggling and off his (BLW) food today. I haven't been on the BLW thread for a while as (whispers) we've been giving him stuff by spoon at pretty much every meal. My mum insists it will help him sleep. But mainly it's because he seems to get frustrated and still be hungry after he's finished playing with his fingers.

Hi Isitme - a small thought, you commented about your DH keeping a record of night wakings and you weren't sure it was effective, I must say that the No Cry Sleep Solution encourages you to do this and have a good template you can download off their website..

anyway, I started doing it and it has been really helpful in that it actually gives me a real sense of what's going on - and I have been able to see when things improve, however gradually.

How are things going with the stretched feeds, are you getting up fewer times at night?

Startingagain, I agree with what Isit said, it depends so much on the baby and the parents and what approach would suit them - but in a nutshell your objective is to
"coach" the baby so that it learns to fall back asleep without any intervention from the parent - be it feeding, rocking, patting - whatever.