Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

Thanks guys.Galena, during the period when he did settle in the cot, that's what we did. It's at the stage now where he just gets overtired and we have to push him to sleep in the buggy. We're not even bothering trying the cot most nights - one of us takes him into the double bed, the other decamps to the spare room.
DS's room is too small to put an adult sized bed in there, so one of us could sleep there with him.
Problem is he's such a light sleeper - even beside one of us he wakes a few times a night and if he's in the cot, it doesn't matter if there's an army of dummies or bottles, he just roars.
Time may sort it out. TBH, work is crap for so many reasons; DH and I are constantly fighting, and I'm walking around constantly close to tears. I just don't seem to have the wherewithal to initate another cot battle. Even trying to wean him from a bottle to a beaker just seems too hard these days. However, I know I have to get off my backside and at least try to do something about it.
DH and I seem to have morphed from husband and wife to 2 people sharing a house together who happen to be raising the same child. That's one of the main things I hate about having to sleep separately, it's just the lying in bed together talking that I miss.
In terms of milk - I am trying to get a lot of meat and green veg into him. My aunt (who is a paediatric nurse said not to worry overmuch for now.
Thanks for listening. I feel so bad whinging - he's a great little fellow in terms of everything else,and there's only so much you can say to friend and family.

Hi All and welcome newbies,

MILF, i've felt like you too, there have been times when I've fervently wished we never had poor DD, as I felt our marriage was close to breaking point. Personally I feel better if I come up with a plan to try and improve things, but I expect half of it is just killing time until things get better on their own. Would defo recommend NCSS if you would like to try some techniques. I think the only way is to get DH to take some time off to tackle it together, and then relay sleep in the day to try and catch up a bit. Huge sympathies to you.

Oosa, empathy from all of us! I know I have never understood what true tiredness was until the last 6 months, and I feel that I'm the only person in the world entitled to say I'm tired .

We're doing a bit better but I keep wanting more. Now it's bed at 7, feed at 10, resettle with no feed between 1-2am, feed at 3-4am, sleeps till 6-7am. A few months ago this would have seemed like sleep nirvana, so why am I still feeling rubbish? The best bit is DD is much better at settling for naps, now takes 5-10min compared with 30+ a few weeks ago, and just needs a song and a little bit of patting, which I am trying to get rid of altogether.

Sleepy vibes to all

Oosa - totally entitled to rant if you managed to respond to your friend so calmly. Not sure I could have done that!
Hug to MILF - sounds really hard going. I think my DS is a light sleeper as well. Sometimes if he's struggling to to settle we bring him to bed (more to prevent us having to get up so much) but it doesn't stop him waking up at all, and when he does wake up he still screams unless he's picked up - even if I'm lying right next to him and holding him.
Glad to hear things are better Melonian, but I know what you mean by wanting more. Teeth are really scuppering things here so we have gone backwards. He's just so hard to settle now. I feel like I'm in groundhog day and it will never get better.
Bena1 - you don't know for sure that your DS will be a poor sleeper post 6 months. My DS was pretty good at about 12 weeks. For about 2 weeks he teased us by only waking once in the night. It was bloody brilliant. He changed his mind quite dramatically though....

Hello, can I join?

DS is 8 1/2 months and has always fed regularly throughout the night (usually about 10pm, 1am and 4am). I'm at the beginning of trying to firstly cut out the feeding and eventually (hopefully) getting him to self-settle in the night (you can dream!). Ideally before I go back to work in 3 months time.

As a first step I've started rocking him back to sleep when he wakes before midnight which seems to work, but he's then taking more milk at the next two feeds (proper mealtimes rather than comfort nursing) so weaning him off them is going to be a challenge.

Anyway, seems like I've got it easy compared to MILFintraining. Sounds like you and your DH are having a really rough time. I don't know if this is a helpful suggestion, but could you fit on one of those sidecar-type cots to your bed as a halfway stage?

may I join? DS is 7.5 months and has always been a shit sleeper, but is doing my head in now - up 3-4 times a night, just whinging, doesn't seem to want to feed, and it's making my daily commute a bit hairy.

why isn't there a [absolutely bloody knackered] emoticon on mn?!

will read rest of thread when I get 5 minutes, but my boss is lurking.

Can I join in please? Started another thread here but Bicnod suggested I come over here for some fellow sufferers!

Dd is 10 months old, up several times a night, was bfing to sleep but that kind of stopped working and I'm sure she isn't hungry so we are now reduced to pacing her room for hours every night. Can't let her cry at all as she wakes 3yo ds up. Trying to do a sort of NCSS thing although am too knackered to actually read the book - even The Very Hungry Caterpillar is a bit of a challenge at the moment. My back is completely screwed from either walking her up and down or rocking her vigorously in the buggy.

Oh and ds is going through the "why" stage.

This morning spent ages rocking buggy to get dd to go to sleep, she just kept waking up every time I stopped, I ended up shouting at her and crying on the stairs. Ds, who had been playing beautifully by himself, came in and said "Sorry Mummy, it's my fault, I was making too much noise" . I felt like the world's worst mother. Am so desperate for some sleep so I can actually look after my children properly!

ChocolateMoose, re the feeding at night thing, I stopped feeding dd between the 10.30ish dreamfeed and 5am. She falls asleep quite easily in our arms so am fairly sure she isn't hungry, but getting her in the cot is a different matter! Anyway, she has actually slept from 11ish to 6am twice since we started, which she has never done before.

Just wondering if it might be worth trying to feed your ds before you go to bed, then see if you can cut out the 1am feed? Might mean a longer stretch of sleep for you!

Thanks for the advice LiegeAndLief. I've been thinking about doing what you suggest, but I might see if I can get him more used to falling asleep without feeding first. I gave in last night - after getting him down at 10.30 he woke up again at 11 and spent half an hour writhing and half trying to settle himself / half crying in my arms. And nutted me in the head in the process which didn't improve anything so I fed him.

Congratulations on the 2 x 7 hour sleeps though. Hope today is better than yesterday.

Hey ladies sorry I have been AWOL. It?s not because things have got better in fact they are worse. I was just boasting to you that DD had started settling herself when she woke between 9pm and midnight but over the last week or so she has stopped that and is now demanding we settle her again. Sometimes she wakes as often as every 30 mins. After 12 (i.e. when we have gone to bed) she refuses to go back into her cot and I am too exhausted to try very hard so we have ended up co-sleeping more than before and she will spend at least an hour or two snacking ? I feel like a cow. Just cannot think what to do to improve things. I was just reading back through my NCSS sleep plan and I feel frustrated that I am back to feeding to sleep again (although not before midnight). She is 11 months now and I just cannot see an end to this.

Will now try and catch up with you guys

Olivo ? I don?t know how you manage to work with all those night awakenings. I really feel for you. I am abroad so cannot recommend anyone but there is a British HV here who does sleep training but it costs a lot because she is private. Might be worth speaking to your HV? Did DD2 get chickenpox too? And how is DD1? And you?!

Galena ? sounds like things are going really well for you, thank goodness. Did you slowly just cut down on feeds? I am getting to the point now that I want to stop BF but I don?t want to cause DD distress (DS self-weaned at 8m) Please stay, you give me hope! DD refuses to take a dummy, I have tried and tried. DS is addicted to his though but that is a lesser problem than DD?s not sleeping (he?s 2.2yrs)

Ooosabeauta ? I hadn?t realised you very pregnant, congrats ? exciting!! I think there is a lot to be said for kids sharing a room, we always did (3 girls ? I was the eldest then 2 yrs later another and then 9 yrs later another!) EP?s concept of the sibling bed is really interesting too.

Melonian ? LOL at replacing sleep with chocolate, that and carbs are the only way I get through the day!! Sounds like some progress with you

Carve133 ? I have tried to give DD a top up bottle or cup after dinner too but she hardly drinks any. I have also tried a herbal infusion popular here in Spain but again, no change! Good idea about the story after the feed, how is that going? I know what you mean about teeth, DD has now got 4 molars all coming through at the same time. She has so many teeth for a baby her age.

Bicnod ? wow, lovely thing to win! Hope you are able to have some bubbly filled evenings without awakenings! How is it being back at work and how has O been?

MILFintraing ? love the name I really do understand your plight, my story is very similar. I feel like I eat, sleep, breathe my DD as she is always there needing me, it?s exhausting. Plus I feel that my relationship with my DH is on hold because we have no time for it, scares me to death.

Hello ChocolateMoose, Kveta and Liegeandlief? welcome

Bena1 ? any improvement for you?

Hi Everyone and welcome newbies

Ugh we're going backwards aswell. Now back to 2 feeds after 10 o'clock dreamfeed, plus last night 2 calls from DS and a 6.00 start - lovely.

I think it's teeth but I've been saying that for 3 months and there's still no sign of the little buggers. So I've gone back to feeding at 2am as its that or spend an hour settling and I haven't the stamina at the moment. We settled without feeding for 2 weeks but she just wouldn't sleep through so I admit defeat...for now.

I'm so confused about how to drop these pesky feeds. Better to get her to have a long stretch at the beginning of the night or do a dreamfeed? Cut out 1 feed at a time or gradually shorten all feeds? Don't know why I'm asking you lot - if you knew the answers you wouldn't be on this thread .

mrsm so sorry things are going backwards for you too, it's soul-destroying isn't it? Maybe it'll be back to where you were when those nasty molars are through? So hard about the BFing too, I've only been doing it 6m but I can imagine it being so claustrophobic by your stage, and with no sleep too. Why don't these babies understand, if they just slept through and fed morning and night they could BF as long as they like, and have happy energetic mummies too!

Sitting here listening to DD cry in her cot I cannot get her down for a nap and she really needs one. I was in there for 45 mins trying to get her down and then got fed up and left she?s not upset just cross but I needed a break. Now asleep after I went in and soothed her after 5 mins (such long minutes) Our nights are getting worse and worse and she is hardly eating at the mo, think it must be the molars though I think she has a cold too but she won?t even let me get near her with the calpol.

Anyone tried cranial osteopathy for sleep issues?

Hi all, sorry we've not been about. Skye's got cold after cold after cold at the moment, and I keep thinking she's teething too, but still gummy! We've had a few nights with wakes at 8;30 and 1:30, where she would only settle with one of us there. We decided at 8:30 last night that she needed to relearn settling without us, so started CC which was fine till she threw up everywhere (ironically, just as we decided that we would settle her as we didn't want her to make herself sick!)! One bedding change later, and I cuddled her to sleep at 9:30 and she slept through.

Today, we went to the zoo for the day and had a lovely time, except that she brought up all her lunch directly after eating it (yes, all over table/floor of cafe!). I think it's purely her cough as she kept breakfast down, but I really don't DO sick, and if she keeps getting coughs which make her sick I'm going to cry!

We tried Cranial Osteopathy when she wouldn't settle during the day at all, and she gradually improved, but I couldn't say if it was the osteopathy or just her growing out of it.

MrsMcJnr, does DD settle in her pushchair? I often struggle in the afternoon to get Skye to nap in her cot, but take her out and she'll have 40 mins which is long enough to keep her human.

Morning nap is normally in the buggy Galena but as I try to get DD down for a nap at the same time as DS in the afternoon, I can't take her out then. Poor Skye and you, vomit just isn't nice at all.

Have decided to delay moving DD to her own room, can't see the point. Until she sleeps for longer, I will end up sleeping in there and she'll wake DS as his room is opposite. Bad move?

I see, MrsMc, we only have the one monkey, so it's easier just to drop everything and go out. I wonder if it might be worth trying DD in her own room for a night or two - once we moved Skye out she slept better. If it doesn't work, she can move back in with you.

That's true I am trying to find out if any of my friends could lend me a cot for a little while so that she can spend time in her own room and also sleep in our room when necessary. I really think she'd benefit from having naps in there at the very least, to get used to the room. How is Skye?

The other alternative is to check out freecycle or netmums in your area - you might be able to pick one up free or cheap which you can sell/hand on when you've finished with it.

Skye's ok - still coughing, still snotty. Woke up last night at 2:45 and wouldn't go back to sleep until 3:45.

Nothing like that here in Spain sadly that said, I think I was just procrastinating, if I move her cot then she can't come back to our room and that's it. There is a double bed in her room so I can sleep there if I need to and she can come in with me safely there so I think I just need to take a deep breath and try it tonight. Last night she did 8.30 -11.15 had a cuddle, farted then went back to sleep until 1.30. That was a better start to the evening than recently. She was then up until 2.15 had some milk, down until 5, had more milk and went back down at 6 and up again at 8.

Hiya. Another exhausted person with non-sleeping baby looking to join the thread. Currently doing wimps cc (checking every 5 mins) with 9 month old daughter, who's never slept through and on a bad night can wake every half hour. Started in earnest yesterday as older children are away on school journey. She did v well from 6.30-12 but was then up 4 times... Hoping for improvement, be it ever so slight, tonight. Feel that we must get things a bit more soporific in this house before my return to work in a couple of weeks or my sanity will be at stake!

Wow- dramatically better night. M slept from 7 til 4.15 and then went back to sleep after just one check/resettle and went through till 6. We'd geared ourselves up for a really horrible night of baby bootcamp as well... So, so, so hope this is the turning point. How's everyone else doing?

MrsMc, sorry - I forgot you weren't in the UK. How did it go?

Autodidact, Glad you had a better night - do be warned however, that often they get better for a few nights with CC, and then have a dreadful night. It's not a backwards step, but normal. Then things generally improve again. We did the same CC with 5 m,inute visits. With a younger child I think it's fine, and anyway, if it's what you're happy with then it's right!

We've got more illness here. We spent yesterday afternoon in the children's ward, waiting for Skye's temperature to come down below 39. Finally it did, so we got home at about 8:30pm. She then wouldn't settle till 9:30. She slept for 45 minutes, woke and wouldn't settle, threw up, and then settled. Slept till 5:15 and woke up with a temp of 39.1 again. Luckily, after ibuprofen and a bit more sleep, she's ok and herself again.

She's generally been sleeping through though.

Hope everyone else is ok?

Aww, poor Skye. And poor you. Really hope she'll be 100% better soon.

Thanks for warning about the likely ups and downs. I'll expect the worst! To my surprise am not feeling too bad about doing a form of controlled crying, despite having responded instantly to her every squeak for many, many months, through half hourly wake ups many nights. It just suddenly felt like the balance had tipped quite strongly in favour of doing something, anything to get her sleeping a bit better, even if that means some crying. We've got two quite a bit older kids who I've been hardly seeing because of needing to settle the girl in the evenings. My partner and I are increasingly arguing and stressed because we're sleeping so badly- he handles stress particularly badly and has been a nightmare in his own right! And I've been quite run down- throat infection, v bad skin etc- which I'm sure has been at least partially due to not getting enough sleep. Additionally I'm back to work the week after next and was starting to feel a great sense of doom and dread about that, on top of the normal worries about leaving my gorgeous baby- v unlike me as am generally an annoyingly chirpy type. Just all seemed to be adding up to biting the bullet and really tackling the sleep... I just hope it works!

Hey all. Have been off this thread for an age. Sleep here is still flipping awful, exacerbated by jet lag, colds and teething!

I have only skim read the last couple of pages but I am empathising massively with the strain being knackered puts on relationships. I feel like sending DP away for a weekend of rest and relaxation so he can come back refreshed and ready to take some of the burden. Oh for the day I can go away for a couple of nights solo and just SLEEP! I feel like a complete victim but I would just like someone to take notice of my exhaustion and look after me!

Anyway, lovely day here so plan to tire DS out with fresh air and exercise!

Big, special hello to Bicnod and Galena. Did Rubyslippers update on how she got on with her sleep consultant?

Hello ladies sorry I haven't been about much - I started back at work last week actually, its quite good to be back in a way (I've gone back part-time) but I really miss O, and he's been a lot more clingy and whingy and generally hard work when I'm with him (to be expected I suppose), although apparently he's an angel with the CM . He doesn't cry when I drop him off so that really helps.

Anyway - sleep up the spout a bit here. Not as bad as it has been but he's been teething like mad (bright red hot cheeks, dribbling, not eating well, revolting poos, nappy rash the works poor little mite) for a couple of weeks (molars I think) and waking up at least two or three times each night screaming in pain (last night was particularly dire). Mainlining calpol and nurofen and occasionally medised.

DH away on a stag do this weekend so I'm on night duty on my own all weekend and then back to work on monday. grrr.

Galena - is Skye all better now? Poor little thing.

BB - I know what you mean - I want someone to look after me too. We'll have to organise that coffee dammit then we can commiserate over cake.

Sun is shining and I'm off to a friend's house this afternoon to eat cake and drink tea and watch our babies playing in the garden.

Sleepydust to all.

Glad there are some good aspects to being back at work, bicnod. I'm back v soon and viewing the whole thing with trepidation and it's useful to be reminded that there could be some positives. Did O settle in with the childminder quite quickly?

Another amazingly good night here, btw! 6.45pm- 5.15am, quick settle, 5.50am, quick settle- felt mean as it was so near 6 and I would have got her up had it been 10 mins later but then she slept till after 7. Feels like she's "recalibrating" night on night as her first wake up was a full hour longer than yesterday. She was in a great mood when she got up. Hoping against hope that it will last.