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Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

1000 replies

MomOrMum · 29/10/2009 15:00

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

OP posts:
Galena · 22/04/2010 19:33

We've just had a fantastic day - Skye had a 1 1/2 hour nap this morning, which was great, because it allowed me to get food ready for her PARTY! We had a party at a friend's house with balloons and cake and lots of sunshine. It's been fab!

For those of you interested (and those who watch CBeebies), we sent in Skye's card for tomorrow, and fingers crossed it'll be shown - it's blue with Alphablocks at the top spelling out 'Skye'. We're just setting up the DVD to record all the birthday time slots tomorrow, so knowing our luck it'll not be shown!

As for sleep issues, Skye woke for a feed last night for the first time in about 10 days (she's woken in between, but just needed a dummy replacement), and because I hadn't fed her in the night for so long, I tried everything else first, which meant about 45 minutes of disturbance. She soon settled with a feed though.

I agree with IsItMe though - if you're against CC then try NCSS early, because it takes patience. I'd lost patience by the time I was ready to try something, so we also did CC.

Good luck for tonight, all!

ladylush · 22/04/2010 20:07

Some familiar names on here I'm kind of coping with dd not sleeping through (she's 9 months old but was 10 weeks premature)as most of the time she wakes once (3pm - could do with it being earlier)but am so hacked off with people going on about it. I'm glad their dc slept through - but going on about it just rubs salt into the wound!

ladylush · 22/04/2010 20:11

Oh and she slept through for 4 days in a row but has gone back to waking once for a feed.

olivo · 22/04/2010 20:33

just a quick hello, havent managed to get on as i have worked full time this week ,due to colleagues being stranded and children still needing to be taught!
some improvement for us, DD2 is down to one feed a night and occasionally wakes once more on top of that. i am really pleased with that. unfortunately, we have not managed to resolve dd1s waking,although last night she woke at the sme time as DD2 and was asleep by the time i'd finished feeding,so not so bad.
I am actually exhausted with this return to work though, am dreading the long term effects of sleep deprivation!

sorry to see so many have had to join us, will try and have a proper read throguh now.

good luck everyone!

carve133 · 22/04/2010 20:55

Melonian DS has also been a very sleepy feeder at night, totally know what you mean. I've really struggled to be confident that he's getting a proper big feed before bed when I do the pull off thing (had to have DH standing over us watching DS's sucking slowing and encouraging me the first few times!). I'm getting more confident now I've been doing it for a week or so. I had to start paying lots more attention to what was happening though (not easy when falling asleep myself - oh the oxytocin!). Oh, and I check with my hands to see if I can get much more of a let down from boob once he's going sleepy and I've pulled him off. Its helps me feel reassured that he's had lots of milk and is really just sucking.
Re: Americanisms in NCSS - I find 'nurse' quite distracting

wal07 · 22/04/2010 22:38

thanks for the words of support. my ds woke every hour last night then threw up in my ear at 5am when i was ignoring him in the hope he would go back to sleep. I ordered the NCSS.

IsItMeOr · 22/04/2010 22:43

Melonian and carve what about "lovely", eh?

Bicnod · 23/04/2010 08:00

LOL at NCSS weirdness - Coleton and nurse both distracting. I'm a total convert though. There's a part at the end that made me cry when I first read it - I'd been fighting off criticism from all and sundry about not doing CC or CIO and this was the first book I'd read that made me feel I wasn't being stupid/pathetic/that it was all my fault. It was something about being 'mother bears and mother lions'. I blubbed lots.

O has a hacking cough and streaming nose. This coupled with general unsettledness due to childminder sessions has resulted in the last few nights being very sleepless I thought I'd graduated from this thread. Oh well, I quite like hanging out here so not all bad

Hope everyone had better nights last night.

MrsMc - do you have a plan?

Galena - happy birthday Skye-baby hope your card gets on cbeebies. It's O's birthday on Monday - can't believe our teeny tiny babies are growing up so quickly.

Dycey - thank you - your post is helpful and gives me hope that we're heading in the right direction.

melonian · 23/04/2010 12:33

Ugh, went to a friends for a BBQ last night so didn't get the kids down until 9pm. DD up at 12.30, 2.30, 4.30 up for day at 6.30. DH now can't settle her at all - she falls asleep in his arms but screams as soon as he puts her down.

Right, here's my plan. Going to stop feeding to sleep - feed until drowsy then put down. If she cries will leave for 10mins if grizzling or go straight back in if screaming. Then try patting, if no joy then cuddling/rocking, if no joy then feed until calm and start again. Hopefully then we will gradually be able to soothe her in her cot and she will settle for DH so we can increase the time between feeds. She is eating 3 meals a day already so must be feeling less hungry, surely?

Bicnod sorry to see you back. It's so hard when they regress but I hope you have a bit more energy to deal with it now. I do know what you mean about the NCSS, it's nice to validate how I feel about leaving DD to scream and I think it's helped DH get on side too. Hope you can graduate again soon.

MrsMcJnr · 23/04/2010 15:12

Sorry I have been away for a few days. DD has taken to going to bed at 8.30pm, waking every 20 mins or so and then finally waking up at 10pm and refusing to go down again until 1am. This means I miss out on all my me time . Wouldn?t mind so much if she would then sleep but she sleeps on and off until 5am when she finally likes to sleep for a couple of hours just as DS wakes up. Exhausting!

Carve133 ? I totally agree with you about different babies having different sleep temperaments. DS was a nightmare as a tiny baby, very colicky, over stimulated by everything. By 8 weeks though we had him in a good bedtime routine and he started to sleep 8-10, have a feed and then 10.30 ? 8 we still use the same routine for him at 2yrs (although he sleeps right through from 8-8 now). DD has had exactly the same bed time routine but it?s not working. The only difference is that we started giving DS a bottle of expressed milk at bedtime so I could fill up for the 10pm feed but DD has never had a bottle. In this house both DH and I seem to be grumpy, not a good environment for 2 babies! Been trying the Pantley Pull Off here for a few weeks too, DD is pretty wise to it and really fights to get back on the first few times and then gives up! Clearly we haven?t reached your DS?s stage yet and she still won?t pull off alone. I tell you if I had had this baby first she wouldn?t have had a younger sibling at 15m like DS did! Jury?s still out on the lactose intolerance thought. Am keeping a food (and everything diary!) If she is then it is mild but she does seem to have most of her milk at night so I thought maybe that is why her eczema (small patch on birthmark at the back of her neck) is worse at night.

Bellamsybride ? peace restored yet?

Hi and welcome Melodian, I have just joined too your story is very similar to mine except I am a few months on, DD is 10 ½ m, DS is 2.2yrs and DD still hasn?t slept a night through and hasn?t done more than 2 hours at time for months now. I feel constantly bad that my fuse is short with DS who is just a typical, energetic 2 yr old. I keep trying to get my NCSS plan together but my biggest problem is that in the night when I have been up for hours and am exhausted I just keep doing all the things I know I shouldn?t do just because I want to get her back to sleep quickly so I can get some sleep i.e. feeding/rocking to sleep! LOL at your comments about EP. I do know exactly what you mean

Galena ? glad to hear that things are finally settling down after what must have been a very traumatic start to Skye?s life my gut feeling now is that DD needs to move to her own room and if I have to go in too for most of the night then so be it but I am waiting for MIL to come and visit first (as that is DD?s bedroom) and that has now been delayed 2 weeks due to flights (as has DS?s potty training!) happy birthday to Skye! will look out for her card on CBBeeies ? I am always so impressed at how amazing the cards are!

Wal07 ? my DD is often like that from about 1am, it?s like she wants to sleep again but isn?t as tired as at the start of the night and finds it impossible to go back to sleep. Sometimes holding her tight to me or holding her firmly on her side in her cot and stroking her works but not always. I began to wonder if it was indigestion and so I have been making sure she gets a proper roll and play about after her dinner and before her bath. We were going for a walk before but I now think her moving about seems to be more beneficial.

Bicnod ? thanks for your advice. I must try to put her down faster rather than rock her back to sleep. Hope the entrance of a CM doesn?t affect your training. I do have a plan and keep reviewing it but have a few sticky points: 1) some days DD doesn?t eat very much. She has 10 teeth and more coming through and she really suffers with them. That said EPs suggestion of a damp flannel to chew on does work quite well sometimes 2) I live in Spain and it is getting steadily hotter. By the end of next month there will be no point in even trying to put her down before 9pm, it is just too hot (learnt this from DS) so I don?t want to try an earlier bedtime and then have to move it out. It?s also convenient that she and DS go to bed around the same time 3) I am not too good at working out how to help her learn to fall asleep without help in the middle of the night. Admittedly, she doesn?t have a ?lovey? (totally uninterested in that or dummies sadly), I haven?t tried music or sound as sleep cues. She has a Tommee Tippee star thing that plays music and has moving pictures but it is very loud. Haven?t done bedtime books or posters either. It is probably time I did a review. It?s been about 10 days since I introduced something new.

Hello ladylush long time no see one of the things I really liked about the NCSS was that she makes you feel ok about a sleep pattern that might not be ideal for everyone but works ok for you. It would be bliss for me if DD woke just once, I wouldn?t mind at all compared to what I am getting now so I am sorting of aiming for that if you know what I mean. Also, she reinforces that fact that your child?s current sleep habits are only a problem if they are problematic for you not if they are just not conventional. I like that about the book

Dycey ? thanks for sharing, I hope age helps with DD!

Welcome Notjustsomeonesmum our babies are the same age

Olivo ? it is so tough trying to juggle two when you need to get them to sleep isn?t it, I feel really torn as to which one to deal with first.

IsItMeOr · 23/04/2010 18:57

MrsMcJnr Your message to Wal07 about wakes in the early hours reminded me of something DH read in Ferber's book. Apparently humans tend to sleep more deeply at the start and end of the night, and less deeply in the middle. So it can be hard for anybody - adult or baby - to get back to sleep again in that period if they happen to wake up.

When we did the dreaded CC, we found that DS responded quite quickly in terms of getting off to sleep again if he woke before we went to bed. Then we had a week when he was awake for 1-2hours in the middle of the night, mostly just chatting quietly to himself with only one night that he actually cried for anything more than a minute or so. Then he seemed to get the hang of getting himself back to sleep again any time of night and was able to sleep through.

I know you're not doing CC/Ferber, but I think the theory is still sound for other techniques. So patience is the key as always.

I also really liked the bit about sleep habits only being a problem if you find them a problem. Is it NCSS that says it's okay to feed your baby for comfort? Loved that too.

IsItMeOr · 23/04/2010 19:00

If anybody is looking for lullabyes, we have this and think it is lovely. Helped DS get off to sleep on a difficult car journey and while we were staying away from home .

carve133 · 23/04/2010 20:16

Lots of posts to catch up with. Re: lullabyes, we have a BT digital baby monitor which comes with lullabye music. Its actually ok and have been putting the same one on for DS when he goes down (not that it made a blind bit of difference until we actually got a bit more serious about the gradual withdrawal plan). However, I must say that he doesn't seem too impressed when I play it again in the middle of the night so have given up and shushh/sing softly instead. More hopeful news to report - DS only woke up TWICE last night (not counting the ten to 6 wake up as DH was due to get up for work at 6am - incidentally '10 to 6' sounds so much better than 5.50!). He was fed both times but he has woken at least 3 three times and up to about 8 for months and months (and its been between 5-8 for the past god knows how many weeks). He also did two 4 hour stretches of sleep which he hasn't done since he was about 3 months old (he's 8 months now). Interestingly given IsItMeOr's post, these longer stretches were at the beginning and end of the night. Hope no-one minds me sharing - bit difficult when other mums I know would class two wake ups as a bad night! Am off to build my shrine to Mrs Pantley/brace self for 'bad night following apparent breakthrough' as prophesised in book....
P.S Happy Birthday to Skye
P.P.S. Bicnod - I also loved the mother bears/lions bit...

carve133 · 23/04/2010 20:21

P.P.P.S wal07 I was feeling so exhausted and desperate when I ordered the NCSS that I paid for express delivery for the next day - more than twice what the book was worth!
Going to check out the 'lovely' thing....

MrsMcJnr · 23/04/2010 20:39

Isitmeor - That?s interesting about middle of the night sleeping (or lack of!) thanks for sharing

Carve133 ? DS has that monitor and still uses the music to go to sleep. I like the fact that it has volume control and that you can put the lullabies back on remotely. Was very disappointed with the sound when we hooked up an ipod so have never used that function. It is in fact our second BT monitor as the first one?s parent unit stopped charging and it was costing us a fortune in batteries. Can?t find the damn thing which is a shame as it would have been useful to play the music to DD. That was a great night for you, hope tonight is similar. What I would do for two 4 hour stretches!

I have a PDF copy of the NCSS if anyone would like me to email it to them haven?t got to the bit about lions and bears yet

IsItMeOr · 23/04/2010 21:38

We also have the BT monitor and DS likes to carry the parent unit around as his own music player . Doesn't seem to make him sleepy!

bellamysbride · 24/04/2010 22:48

Peace not restored here . We are off on holidays (jet lag as well!) on monday. So I will return after that to fill you in on how it all affects a poorly sleeping 10 month old.

As Bicnod says, the upside of having a poorly sleeping baby is the entitlement to be part of this thread. Lovely, friendly, sleep deprived people .

A big Happy Birthday to Skye for yesterday. A beautiful day!

ooosabeauta · 25/04/2010 17:13

Wow, have just caught up on the thread after losing it for a week again. Sorry to hear a lot of people are having bad nights. My ds has developed a new quirk (always room for a new one ) in that he will not go to sleep for me at all unless I tuck him up in the big bed with me, but will go off nearly instantly for my dh, every time. This means that he's not having any day time naps during the week, and I am a bit frazzled, and I can't put him to bed at night. He just gets up and trampolines in his cot. Does anyone else's dc do this? He can be hysterically tired, but still clings on to the rail and bounces himself into delirium. Find myself barking saying 'Lie down! Go to sleep!' in frazzled tones, and he lies down, waits for me to leave the room and springs back up again giggling. Does he think I'm a 'soft touch'?

Think your query hasn't been answered yet, notjustsomeonesmum: BLW is baby-led weaning, ds is 'darling son', dd is 'darling daughter' etc. At the top there's a link to acronyms which will tell you any others you need translating

Was genuinely miffed when I saw I'd missed your card for Skye, Galena. My ds and I love watching the birthday cards bit. Did she get hers shown?

Hope work's gone well Olivo. I can imagine it's really tough working with little sleep. Just couldn't do it. I go in to my dh's department once a week, but didn't go last week because I was so exhausted. Luckily dh is obliged to forgive me, but couldn't keep a professional aura for anyone else when I'm tired.

Wishing you all good sleep tonight

carve133 · 25/04/2010 17:25

Good luck with the hol bellamys

Interesting piece in the Observer today about CC. No mention of the gradual withdrawal middle way a la NCSS, which seemed a bit of a shame. Almost feel moved enough to write to the editor (if I had the energy).

DS not doing badly, two to three wake ups and some early starts. Much better than a couple of weeks ago (she says, still tentatively). Can't seem to get away without BFing a couple of times though.

Just looking back at thread - notjustsomeonesmum, blw stands for Baby Led Weaning. There is a thread I think which should explain all (haven't used it myself so don't have link, sorry).

Happy birthday to Bicnod's little boy for tomorrow

Without internet now for a few days so will catch up at the end of the week. Good sleep vibes to all

MrsMcJnr · 25/04/2010 21:12

Hey girls well Aaliyah MUST be worn out, I am. She got up at 6.50am spent two hours in the park this morning, crawling, pulling up etc, had a 40 minute snooze and then spent 4 hours crawling, pulling up, walking with her hand held walker thingie (what are they called?) didn?t have an afternoon nap but did eat 3 good meals though not much milk. She fell asleep in the car about 7pm and only woke about 30 mins ago for milk. Let?s hope we have a good night!

The last three mornings she has woken up really early and that has been her up for the day, it?s awful especially after a bad night. I don?t know why. It is still pitch black in the bedroom so it?s not sunrise. She used to love sleeping between 5am & 9am!

IsItMeOr ? I have dug out the original BT monitor in the hope that DD likes the music as much as DS does will try that tomorrow!

Bellamysbride ? hope you have a wonderful holiday and that the change of scene makes all the difference

Ooosabeauta ? My DD does that trick of not settling for me but luckily she only does it at night and not for her naps. The difference here is that she bounces and screams in fury until I pick her up!!

Carve133 ? hope things get even better

Happy birthday to Bicnod's little boy for tomorrow from me too!

MrsMcJnr · 26/04/2010 15:01

No such luck, up 4 times, including being up for an hour between 5am-6am and guzzled milk most of the night. That said it has suddenly got hot here so will be taking a beaker of water in for her tonight.

melonian · 26/04/2010 18:18

Sorry everyone, I know we're all in the same boat and I've got it better than some, but can I just have a rant?

I'm fucking sick of this constant exhaustion. I feel totally crap all the time, I'm being a shit mother to my toddler and a shit wife. My marriage is really suffering as I am so irritable all the time and have nothing left to give at the end of the day. My house is a shithole most of the time. I haven't been out for an evening or away from DD for more than 2 hours in 6 months. Why can't she just go to fucking sleep? Just for 4 straight hours, that's all I ask?

And breathe. Thanks for that, I will feel better tomorrow.

Galena · 26/04/2010 19:36

Oh Melonian! I know where you're coming from - it WILL get better, I promise!

If you look back at my post from 11th March at 20:26 I was very close to the edge. I only have one child too!

However, now I can happily report that, whilst she doesn't sleep through every night, she probably sleeps through more often than not (which probably means you're all going to throw me off this thread )

Her birthday was good, she had a party the day before with her little friends from baby group, and then we had a quiet day on Friday and a BBQ with our friends on Saturday. Unfortunately she has yet another cold/virus thingy so is tired and grumpy most of the time, but we're coping. CBeebies didn't show her card which was considering how much work I put into it. However, I have a photo of it (and another of her at her party) which I'll put on my profile... One day she'll grow out of 3-6 month clothes!

Sending sleepy thoughts to all the little munchkins!

olivo · 26/04/2010 19:42

wow, amazing to see how many people are having sleeping issues with their los. Sorry to hear this.

I am pleased to report that DD2 slept through last night - from 6pm, with a dream feed at 9.30, and then i had to wake her at 6.15 so i could feed her before getting up for work. I am so pleased with her, and really thankful. I'm impressed that some of the NCSS techniques worked.

Unfortunately DD1's wakings are getting worse and it looks like we may have to seek professional help. we feel we have tried everything but now i am back at work, i am really struggling. I'm giving it a week before going to the GP to see if they can suggest anything.

Galena · 26/04/2010 20:17

I think I've managed to put some photos on my profile. If not, just yell!

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