at the very end of my tether - please tell me controlled crying might help for 7-month-old

[bean612]

DD has been screaming for the last 45 mins. She went to sleep at 7.45, woke up at 8.30 but we managed to shush her back to sleep. This time though she is furious. At the moment she's like this every night - 3 wakings with varying degrees of screaming before we go to bed, then up 2 or 3 (or 4) times in the night, sometimes just grizzling, sometimes screaming. We don't feed her, just give her water, but it's not food she wants. She CAN get herself to sleep as we used to put her down for the night awake and she'd get herself to sleep within 5-15 mins without much problem. But now... I vacillate between sobbing myself and feeling furious and having to leave the room to calm down. I can't take it much longer. Seems to me like CC is the only option left.

Oh god. DD has woken 8 times since 7.15 and has currently been screaming for the past half an hour. I can't bear it.

Poor bean. I'm so sorry to read that you are going through hell again. You must all be so tired and miserable.

Are you absolutely sure that your DD isn't teething? If she's screaming even when you pick her up, then perhaps she is in pain, in which case, if teething powders and gel don't work, calpol or baby nurofen could help her (and you) to get some relief. We've used baby nurofen on our two when teething pain has made them and us wretched, and it has helped. (And teething pain can go on for weeks - my younger son had it for two months when his front teeth were coming through.)

You'll have gathered that I'm a proponent of CC when all else has failed, but if teething isn't the problem, and if your DD's not happy even in your arms, and is capable of screaming for such a long time regardless of what you do, then CC might not be the answer just yet (although if she's screaming in your arms, she might as well be screaming in her cot so that you can take yourself away from her room for some breathing space).

What is she like in herself during the day? Is she generally OK, or out of sorts? Could she be constipated? Have you had any luck with improving the quality of her daytime naps, or bringing forward her dinner and bedtime?

Thinking of you, and hoping tonight's been miraculously better.....

Have you given calpol for possible teething pain?

Oh bean that sounds horrible.. other than sending you hugs and empathy through the ether, all I can think is to share what's been happening in the AldeHouse in similar moments. Yes, you're right, MN has definitely helped me stay sane the past few days. I even managed a few desperate chuckles on the 4-5 month thread - ta for that.
Re screaming fits and DHs - mine starts to shake and visible sweat when our wee boy screams and screams. Latest quote from him is "God - this is worse than labour - at least we knew that would end". I let that one pass, but know what he meant, sort of.
Anyway. Decided that cc was too much because DS is just too wee as you said. Had a decent couple of nights (all is relative) since posted last, which makes me suspect DS is a freaky mindreader who knew what would happen if he kept on being horrible at night.
When we have full inconsolable meltdown the things that help us are:
first of all, wax earplugs. We can still hear the screams but somehow the earsplitting heartrending edge is taken off. Then just carrying DS around, or sitting next to his cot shushing him and singing more loudly than his screams. We've developed the theory that some days he has a screaming quotient that he has to reach, like some people need X amount of exercise. We just have to help him through it and show him we love him loads.
Like for you feeding, rocking, cuddling, in bed together - all these things stopped working one after the other. So even if I'd wanted to spend the next year(s) with a baby constantly on me/next to me in bed (which like you I just don't want to do), DS has his own ideas and wants something else. Just haven't worked out what yet. Am hoping magic switch will flick soon and he'll be as lovely at night as he is in the day. Hah. Easier said at 10am than 1 am. Have also given up caffeine in hope that DS will settle more. Mad, possibly, but to such desperation we are all driven...

Oh, and in the recent teething pain episode something that helped almost magically was Ashton&Parsons powder. Looked up the ingredients and it's basically chamomile tincture. Gave DS one whole powder on his wee screaming pink tongue and after 10 mins he slept for 3 HOURS. Fluke maybe but a miracle to us.

Hope things get better bean. Another thing that helps me is getting any generous soul who wants to to take DS for pram rides in the day so I get some space to be me again. Am sure you're doing that too though. Oh I don't know. Just crossing fingers for you for the night to come...

Oh poor Bean i know it won't help but you have all my sympathy. Being mummy to a non-sleeper is no fun at all.

I can only second (or third) the calpol suggestion, i must admit that we often resort to it when nothing else works and just put it down to teething pain.

Have you tried white noise ? It used to work a treat for us when DS was younger (he is 8 months now) but haven't used it for a while so don't know if its only when younger - but anythings worth a try ! It seemed to distract him from the crying and give him something else to focus on - and it always seemed to relax him until he eventually dropped off to sleep. It needs to be quite loud so that they can hear it over their crying - we had the hairdryer on almost constantly for about 2 months ! (could never understand how he could fall asleep with a hairdryer on but hey-ho!) You could try that or a radio on static ?

Sorry - wish i could be more help but i'm certainly no expert as my little darling is now getting us up at 4.44 am every day for the last 6........ harumph....if its not one sleep problem its another !!! All the best....

I'm on my knees. I'll never sleep again. Nothing will ever be good again. There is no way out of this and it's going to go on for ever.

I know these things aren't really true, but right now that's how I feel.

She could be teething but no teething remedies are helping (Calgel, Calprofen - not yet tried the powders).

She's generally happy during the day, and definitely not constipated. Naps are still short and always on me but I think that's all part of the problem (the latter bit particularly).

Earplugs - I have worn them every night since the day she was born!

Pram rides with other people - she doesn't like the buggy. And when I tried to give her to my mum this pm to get a bit of rest she was hysterical within 10 minutes.

White noise - doesn't work.

Had 1.5 hours' sleep last night. Today the oft-quoted phrase "this too will pass" just doesn't cut it.

Sorry - just realised that all sounds so abrupt. I really do appreciate everyone's support and advice. I'm just having a day where I feel utterly flattened and desperate.

Oh, and to all those co-sleeping advocates - well she's been pretty much co-sleeping (ie. ending up in bed with me/DH for most of the night) for a couple of weeks now, and she still wakes up and cries and grizzles and will ONLY be soothed by a boob. But that's not enough. She has to fall asleep with it in her mouth and it has to stay in her mouth. If at any point she inadvertently breaks away, or it falls out, or - God forbid - I take it out (because I cannot sleep while she's sucking, I just can't), she wakes up and grizzles and howls. So what now, eh?

Sounds like my dd4 she is 6 months old and after sleeping through from 6 weeks she has started crying and waking in the night. I never used a dummy with any of my others but my mil suggested it the other day. I brought my first one last week and it works a treat. Something to consider anyway.

Hi ninamag,

Tried a dummy when she was younger and suffering from bad silent reflux which meant she cried All The Time. She wasn't interested - didn't even spit it out, just cried around it. Almost funny, in retrospect!

It sounds like you have tried everything. I completely understand. DD1 and DD3 were really crappy sleepers. Maybe try your gp- it may the reflux troubling her still. Good luck!

i have found with both my dds that if they have only had short sleeps during the day (normal around here) or if they were up v early or v. late in the previous 24 hrs, they can have a late nap, say anywhere between 4 and half 5 and still go to bed for 7 or 7.30 without too much twisting and turning or waking up or 'hanging on the boob for hours before dropping off properly.' Is this a possibility? This 'nap' can be anywhere, in the car, on my lap, in bed. My two don't and never have been on routines. They have to be flexible in this house for lots of extenuating reasons.

Why not try the dummy again? It seems other things have changed since she was younger so perhaps that has?

Co-sleeping works well in particular if you can fall asleep while feeding but is hard if you can't and the feed seems to go on forever. It was an absolute lifesaver for me when I stopped having to get out of bed, but I did usually manage to drift off to sleep while doing the feeding. It does sound as though discomfort could be playing a part if your dd's not getting to a deep enough sleep for you to withdraw from her at all. Normally you would expect a baby dropping off after a feed, even a long feed, eventually to be so deeply asleep they let go of your nipple and couldn't care less where it is.

I have to say if she's already distressed even when she's beside you, then the very last thing I'd do would be to take myself away and make her cry more until she gives up and goes to sleep that way. Have you tried starting off in bed with her as well as taking her in later? Might she sleep better if you go for that from the start rather than starting off trying to leave her in there? Could the stress of the early attempts to get her off to sleep alone be setting a pattern for the night, so if you just missed out that bit early on and went straight for keeping her by you it might work?

I also have to say that in your position of desperation I would spend the money on a bedside cot before I tried CC and at least attempt that sort of semi-co-sleeping arrangement too. (The resale value should be good if kept in good condition so it has to be worth a try.)

Good luck, I hope you get more sleep soon.

bean, I don't know how you're keeping going on so little sleep, so any abruptness of tone is quite understandable.

Is it possible for your mum to take your dd to her house for the day so that you can get some sleep and rest? You said that your dd wouldn't stay with your mum but if you're not around she might do so - my ds1 would never stay with anyone else if he knew that I was in the house, and when I was would always insist on being carried around constantly, but if left at his grandparents he'd be utterly angelic and they would always wonder why I thought he was difficult. Or maybe you and your dh can do a trade, whereby he spends the night with the baby while you are at your mum's getting a decent night's sleep, and then you can return the favour the following night (thereby undoing the good work of the night before, but at least you'd have had more sleep).

My ds2 had dreadful teething pains for about two months, and aside from the teething powders, baby Nurofen and Anbesol, I found that rocking him in his cot also helped (he has a Stokke with castors, which came in very handy). As he'd been sleeping through the night since he was seven weeks old, I was completely stunned to be suddenly getting less sleep than I had been when he was brand new, and I did nearly go demented; but just as suddenly as the awful nights began, they stopped with the arrival of his four front teeth. I know that "this too will pass" isn't much help to you right now, but it will, perhaps because of something that you try, or perhaps because she just enters a different phase of her development. Babies really are contrary little sods.

Have you been to the GP to see if there might be anything wrong?

I hope you and your dd are sleeping soundly right now and do so till a civilised hour of the morning......

I KNOW ITS A SILLY QUESTION BUT IS HE SUFFERING FROM COLIC OR AN ULCER AS YOUNG BABIES CAN GET IT TOO!!!
If he cries after he is laid down the acid goes up his oesophagus and burns like hell.
Might be worth goin to the docs and asking if you can try infant gaviscon.

Bean,

clipped tone more than understandable. Respect to you for even being able to work a keyboard on 1.5 hrs sleep...

Ashton&Parsons continues to work here with my wee boy. Also Nelson's / Boots chamomilla homeopathic teething thingies. Not sure if your dd is teething though. It's all such an awful illogical crazy time, the crying, I know exactly what you mean when you say "this will never ever end"...

I can only second ttalloo's suggestion of getting a break, anywhere anyhow, I had to do that a week ago - and it made me able to get through the next few days, don't know what I'd have done otherwise.

Argh!

Jesus sounds like you've been having an awful time. I was going to come on and say that our 13mo improves month on month, with the odd shitty week thrown in but, as you say, 'this too shall pass' doesn't quite cut it.

It seems like you've tried everything so far so forgive me if I'm repeating something you've already done but might be worth a mention... I went back to work when DS was 7mo. Just about coped with the sleep deprivation, the odd bit of hallucination, leaving my keys in the car all day etc. but nothing too bad. Then at 10mo he got really poorly for about 5 weeks and was waking hourly every night. I was utterly unable to function anymore so, despite working 80-odd hours a week, my OH had to take over some of the nights cos I was becoming a danger on the roads and a miserable wreck. It was awful at first (am a total wimp when it comes to hearing him cry!) but as I knew he was in his Dad's arms I could just about cope.

It took a few goes but he learnt to take comfort from someone else & now settles better for his Dad/ Nan/ babysitter than me as when I go to him he doesn't want me to leave again, the little blighter.

If that's no use to you then, as others have said, do please try to find a way of getting more rest. I get one lie in a week and at least one night where my OH is on nighttime duty- knowing I'll get a break at some point keeps me going. Could your mum/OH/a friend take her out for an afternoon whilst you have a rest? Even if you don't sleep, some peace and quiet and a lie down might help.
Sorry there's no magic solution to get your baby to sleep better, perhaps you and your OH could now focus on how to increase your sleep.

Wishing you better sleep soon

how's it going, bean? hope everything's got miraculously better and you are too busy sleeping to post.....!

Yes let us know how you're doing

Hello lovely ladies,

Sorry I went a bit quiet - DD has had a bad cold this week so things have been even more rubbish than usual on the sleep front. We haven't even tried to put her in her cot, but gone totally "backwards" in feeding her to sleep, waiting till she's deeply asleep before putting her down in our bed, then co-sleeping all night. For a few nights she was waking every hour, and on a couple of nights she was awake for 2.5-3 hours and NOTHING would get her back off (well, of course it did eventually but not before I was tearing my hair out). Strangely, though, I haven't been so upset/frustrated by it, I suppose because she's ill and there's an obvious reason for it, so it's much easier just to accept it and do whatever's necessary. She seems to be on the mend today so hopefully things will improve - i.e. go back to being slightly less rubbish than they have been!

I don't know, I'm still veering wildly between the idea of trying CC and thinking maybe we should just co-sleep (I can't get a cot sidebar-type affair, by the way, as our bedroom isn't wide enough to fit one next to the bed, but thanks for the suggestion) and/or wait it out until the next phase begins or she grows out of it (ha ha). I saw a friend last week who suggested a cranial osteopath and I've phoned and booked an appt for 3 weeks' time (the earliest I could get). It's free (the Foundation for Paediatric Osteopathy in Farringdon in London, anyone have any experience of it?) so we have nothing to lose in trying. We did try a cranioscacral therapist when DD was very little (2 weeks old, god that seems like a long time ago!) and it didn't seem to have much effect, but that was for feeding problems and the practicioner was very, er, esoteric, shall we say, whereas friend says the FPO are very sensible and certainly seem to have helped with her DD's digestion problems.

Also, I am back to work (only 2 days a week for the time being) in 3 weeks and DD is due to go to a childminder, so god knows how that will work out in terms of napping, but something will have to change so I think I'm going to see how that pans out and how it will affect her nighttime sleep and naps on the days she's with me. We'll see.

Getting time away - I feel very guilty now because DH does in fact get up with DD every other night, so he is already sharing the load, and I know I am VERY lucky in this respect. And last night I did in fact go to see friends on the other side of London and stayed over while DH put DD to bed and did the night shift, which made a huge difference to my state of mind - still slept badly (unfamiliar bed, a bit too much wine) but the space just to be me helped hugely. I had started to have aural hallucinations (if that makes sense) where I'd wake up with a start in the middle of the night, convinced I'd heard DD screaming, even though she was sound asleep. When you're not in the same house your mind can't play those sort of tricks on you at least.

Anyway, I'm rambling, so apologies. But thank you so much for continued support. How is everyone else? Aldegirl, how are things in the Aldehouse now?

Oh god.

8.15pm-midnight - DD sleeps (in our bed). Amazing.

11pm - I go to bed (thinking there's no point trying to go to bed earlier as DD usually has multiple wake-ups in the evening - though of course tonight she doesn't). DH and I haven't slept in the same bed for months, so decide to both sleep in the spare room with the monitor on, and I'll go to DD if, ha ha I mean when, she wakes up.

11pm-midnight - I lie awake worrying that although she's bang in the middle of our king-size bed, with plenty of pillows on the floor on both sides, DD will somehow fall out of bed and hurt herself and although the monitor is on, I won't hear her. I get out of spare bed and go back to our room.

midnight-1.30am - DD wakes up as I get into bed. Then she wakes up at roughly 15-minute intervals thereafter, each time just as I am drifting off.

1.30-2.30am - DD is awake. I cuddle her lying down, I cuddle and rock her sitting up. I give her water. I feed her from one boob, I feed her from the other boob. None of this makes any difference. Finally I put her in her cot, figuring being in bed with me isn't actually giving her any comfort. I feed her in the cot by leaning over into it like a cow feeding a calf. I am short and the cot side is high, so I have to stop. She grizzles. I turn her on to her tummy (her preferred sleeping position) and after a couple of yelps of protest she finally goes to sleep.

approx 2.45am - I fall asleep

4.15-5.45am - DD wakes up. I try to soothe her in her cot. Nothing doing. I take her back into bed with me. I do all the stuff I did for the 1.30-2.30 wake-up. If anything she is grizzlier, and when I try to cuddle her she gets outright angry. She doesn't even really want my boob as she continues grizzling while feeding. I am going slightly mad. I bang my head repeatedly on the bedhead. It helps the overwhelming feelings of frustration and upset. DD looks at me like I'm bonkers. Probably because I am. At 5.30 I consider going to get DH because I can't take any more. DD falls asleep on my arm. I lie with it under her until I'm sure she's really asleep, then tentatively edge away.

5.45-10am - DD sleeps! Considering she's usually up for the day between 6.30 and 7.30am, it shows how bloody knackered she is. DD is spreadeagled in the middle of the bed so I sleep brokenly and fitfully on the edge of it, waking up periodically with backache from my scrunched-up position. At 9am I wake with a start as I dream that DH electrocutes himself changing a lightbulb and dies. I'm pretty much awake after that.

For anyone reading this who is against CC and pro-co-sleeping, feeding to sleep etc - please tell me, I genuinely really would love to know - what would you recommend? Because co-sleeping and feeding on demand during the night doesn't work. It only makes her cross. So what the hell do I do?

Hi Bean. I have used CC and it worked, although I wasnt bf on demand. I co-slept wiht dd1 and it was a nightmare and even now (9) she is not a great sleeper. THis was why I used CC with dd2. It did work, although I know there are a lot of people who hate the idea of CC.

Hi again Bean

One reason we eventually resorted to our MILDER form of CC (going in every 3 minutes - and this is milder than full on CC no matter what other posters think!) was because nothing else was working.

DS just got to the point where feeding and cuddling weren't helping him. When we fed him he would eat but be wide awake, and when we cuddled and rocked him he would fight against us and try to push us away.

I genuinely believe that he was ready to be left to sleep on his own. They change and develop constantly and i really think he was totally ready for it - and didn't want us disturbing him when he was tired enough to sleep. I also think thats why it only really took 1 night of 30-40 mins of crying and that was it really. The very next day, he went down for all his naps on his own without a squeak.

I'm not saying you should do it, but we were at the end of our tether and it worked for us.

Although he's been ill the last week and we've gone backwards again and are rocking him to sleep a lot of the time - just so that we can all get some rest. But i'm confident that it won't take much to get back to him happily falling asleep on his own....

Crikey - just do CC, stay with her until she falls asleep if you need / want to (which is what we did, then slowly progressed out of the room) or choose some other strategy and stick to it, but make sure she falls asleep in her cot. Like littlelord, we did it when nothing else worked anymore, at around 8 months. I do think that a long stretch of crying (and an hour or so really IS a long stretch, I realise that) followed by cracking the sleeping thing is so much better than months and months of the kind of nights you describe.

And I wonder whether posting on here is actually just making you feel pre-emptively guilty and undecided about a decision you seemed ready-ish to make in your OP. There will be people who disagree, and others who won't, and you'll feel terrible when she's crying, and it might not work, but then again it might.

I'm writing as someone who was petrified by the whole idea of CC, and thought I'd be absolutely incapable of it. I was (DH took over) until I saw, like littlelord, that my lo actually really needed to be left alone to get on with it by himself. Best of luck.

Hi moonwalk, I know what you mean but I think I'm posting on here now partly to get it all out and partly because I'd honestly like to know if anyone has any other solutions. I do want to do CC, because like you and littlelord I'm getting more and more certain that DD actually NEEDS to be left alone to get herself to sleep. The trouble is, what if it doesn't work? If someone could guarantee that it would only take 3 days and that it would work, I'd do it in a flash, I really wood. But I'm terrified it won't work, that things will then be worse than before. Or that it will take a week, or two weeks, and then I truly would be broken. Although I'm not sure I'm not broken already, to be honest. I feel floppy and useless and devoid of hope for any kind of normal life.

All you can do is give it a go. If it doesnt work then you have lost nothing but at least you can say you tried. It took 3 days with dd2 if that helps??