2 hours to get to sleep

[littleanimal]

DD is almost 4 months old and it has always been a struggle getting her to sleep. She hasn't slept in the house during the day since she was 3 weeks old. I have to take her for walks in the pram to get all her naps (1 hour in the morning, 2-3 hours over lunch and then 30-45mins late afternoon). She wakes if I take the pram back home (we live in an upstairs flat). Our evenings were hell until a few weeks ago as she had terrible colic and would scream until midnight, when I could feed or rock her to sleep. Now we have the problem that we take on average 2 hours to get her down in the evening, after a bath and feed, using lots of rocking and shushing. She's obviously tired - crying and rubbing eyes. The last 2 nights we have tried pick up/put down (Baby Whisperer) but it's just made her hysterical and we've resorted to feeding her to sleep. Does anyone have any advice on how to get her to sleep. We would love our evenings back and I would love to be able to stay at home during the cold weather!

I would happily spend all evening feeding and entertaining my DD, but she screams the place down with tiredness!She gets to tired to BF and just winds herself into hysteria, she needs to sleep and she sleeps so soundly when she goes, I don't think the answer for us is to keep her awake longer, I have tried to get her to nap at six and then feed her later on and put her to bed later but it never worked, she wouldn't nap and just got upset - they are all different after all!

Tenacity you are doing brilliantly don't change the essential routine of putting her to bed at 7 or thereabouts. It sounds as if that is working. VERY WELL.

My voice is suffering with a cold and the singing and I keep coughing, DH had to step in and luckily him saying 'Heave ho' over and over again works too, she was off by 7.30 ish and we'll see how she does - thank you sawnriver!

I am having similar problems with 15 week old DD. When she wakes for feed in night she is great and goes to sleep herself even if she seems wide awake. However, its getting her to bed in the first place that is making me an emotional wreck. up until 2 weeks ago we where bathing her then letting her fall asleep on us at about 7 and putting her to bed (awake)at about 9 after a feed. no problems. But we are trying to get her straight to bed at 7 and she is hating it! she screams as soon as I try to lower her into her cot. I am trying the pick up put down method and she does fall asleep herself after a few goes but wakes again screaming after 10-15 mins and we start again! Usually takes till 9 ish! I wonder whether she is too young to learn yet. It has me in tears everynight- not because I cant bear the screaming, but because I feel so bad at seeing her so upset and have to tell myself she doesnt hate me! Luckily we have it slightly easier during the day although she has an internal alarm clock that wakes her after half an hour (which is not enough)and the only way we can get her to have a longer nap is to keep hold of her (which is lovely but not a good habit to get into I suppose- but one thing at a time!)
So no advice from me im afraid, but at least you are not alone! Im going to keep perservering. Good luck and I will be reading avidly for some pearls of wisdom that may help us too!

I did try the pick up method but it never worked for us, it just made her hysterical. The only thing I might suggest from a standpoint of ignorance and being not at square one yet - is go back to the way you were doing it but try putting her down 5/10 mins earlier each night, really gradually, to see if she gets the idea slowly? My reasoning is that we have gradually managed to shorten the bedtime ritual for our DD, but it's taken a month or more but we're slowly getting there - slowly slowly catch ye monkey - but not if your monkey still won't nap!

so simple, but that is a very good idea!
Will definitely give it a go because I really do feel she is having much more disturbed sleep since we tried changing her routine!
Will give my nerves a break too as we are also trying to gently coax her into taking a bottle (currently exclusively breastfed) and that just makes her cry too! SO it will be less guilt for her poor mummy!
Thanks

starlight - most flattered! Although an hour after posting was cursing as A woke and wouldn't settle... but indeed more feeding eentually settled him.

Sat night he slept through for the 2nd time ever, like the first this meant leaving friends' house at 9, he fell asleep on way to rail station, I freeze during 2 hour wait/journey home via 2 trains+bus, transfer him to cot, and the next thing I knew it was 6am (ok actually it was 4am and my breasts leaking, but hey).
Sun night down at 10, woke at 2 and 7.30 (had breakfast) and 9.30.
Last night down at 9.30, woke 10.15, down 10.30, woke 6.30! And then my alarm went as he woke at 9.30!

Visited parents today so disrupted his afternoon kip, but he fell asleep in the car at 8pm, slept through 2 trains, 3 staircases and a bus, woke at 11 for food and is asleep again. So I'd better go to bed.

I have no idea if this success means baby-led life is the way to go for others, but after a farcical afternoon in a cafe where 10 women tried to waken A from a nap (he would blink and go back to sleep. For another 3 hours.), I know there is no way routines would work on him. I just hope he stays able to sleep anywhere his blankie is!

Every one elses babies feed to sleep, why not mine!!

I'm not sure if we've had a bit of a breakthrough - took 20 mins for DD to fall asleep both lastnight and tonight!! The only things that have changed is that she woke up early from her afternoon nap whilst we were out and so was more stimulated during the day (she was fascinated by watching the goings on in the cafe). I've also added a massage to the bedtime routine. I'm not sure what it is but I'm just so happy that we seem to be getting somewhere after all this time.

fingers crossed for you, mine's been sleeping longer for a week and going to bed better, but napping is still bad - we're out tonight so i'm worried about her settling tonight,we'll see - hope it continues well for you.

ARGHHHHHH! The napping is getting worse!! She was up at 3.45 this morning, then feed/sleep for us both until 8.30 when we got up. She looked sleepy as I was getting washed & dresses, so I put her in her crib with her snuggly and she was plying with him happily so I kept out of sight and her noises get quieter and quieter and I think 'Oh my god, she's really napping...' 5 mins quiet, stick my head round the door out of her line of sight, and she's wide awake. Kept trying until 11, tried it again the moses basket down stairs, tried cuddling up on the sofa for a feed with her lying down in the hope she'd drop off - no. Put her in the sling and walk to the shops and back, takes an hour, wide awake the whole time sticking her tongue out at every one we meet. Come back, another feed/cuddle for an hour, her eyes close, she snuggles into me and sleeps for....literally 1 minuet (I timed it). No joy, so we get up after a bit, I put her in the sling, and we got for a speed walk around the park and go the long way round through the farm, a walk which used to take 1 1/2 hours and I do it in an hour door to door, after 20 mins she falls asleep - and wakes up 20 mins later. We come in, more food, DH comes in and now we're at the crucial point of it being too late for her to nap, but she is now tired and grumpy as hell - we desperately keep her amused as best we can until 6 so I can bath with her her, which she does enjoy but screams blue murder when we get her out; I give her another feed and she screams again once we're done, so I steel myself for a long bedtime, start with 10 mins of 'Horsey horsey don't you stop' round the bedroom, into the crib, she screams but I relentlessly begin '10 in the bed' and she gives a massive wail....but by the time I'm at 5 in the bed, she's quiet, and after the first verse of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds....out cold at 7.00pm.
I am now pretty sure she'll be awake early as she's gone to bed early, what CAN I do, she needs to have one descent nap at least so she can stay awake/non-demonic until 8.......sigh. I would drive in the car with her only I can't drive....sigh again.

If she slept for 12 hours at night (with a short break for a feed at 3.45) maybe she doesn't need more than a short nap at 11.00 You could wait till then before trying to put her down, or going for a walk. Maybe she is happy just kicking and playing, talking till then, and all the false starts are confusing her.? Do you think you have in your mind a routine that is a gold standard - that you are trying to get her to nap at specific times and feeling increasingly frustrated because everything's getting out of sync? But if she goes to sleep at 6 or even 7 for the night it's fine. The worst that can happen is that she'll wake in the small hours for her night feed if she needs one, and then go back to sleep till 6. And then have a morning nap at 9.00. It doesn't mattter Tenacity, as long as you are getting a good stretch at night, it is not cast in stone when the naps and putting to bed are meant to be, except vaguely within a bearable parameter.

Well I have no idea what's going on here and I'm in desperate need of advice. Over the last 3 nights we have managed to get her down to bed within about 30 mins, and she's asleep by 8pm. We then have an evening - hurrah! Unfortunately she then decides to wake every 2-3 hours throughout the night. I feed her as she seems hungry and she goes back down quite easily until 5am when she's up for the day. Prior to this, she was always a good sleeper (once we'd got her to sleep that is!) She used to sleep from when we got her down at 9 or 10pm until 5 or 6am. She's also started taking shorter naps in the day, which we do in the pram. She wakes up screaming and only settles if I pick her up. So I end up struggling along carrying her and pushing the pram at the same time. She's not obviously teething and seems well in herself, so I've no idea what's going on. Any ideas?

little animal its been a long time since I had a baby but have you posted on feeding thread? possibly another growth spurt which will settle if you just keep feeding lots in day and night for a bit? Could be a really obvious reason.

Oh dear, we had a terrible night. She woke at 1.15 and wouldn't feed propperly, I changed her and she wouldn't settle or feed, and I just suddenly broke down - stupid I know but I suddenly felt that the only way I could cope with the days fine was with the increased night sleep and if that's gone, I've nothing left to draw on. So there were four hours of me and her crying, poor old DH trying to calm us both down and then us sleeping on the nursery floor in some duvets so DH can get some sleep. I wake up and she's all smiles and I just cry thinking about how wonderful she is and how I can't help her sleep and hit big black depression. She was lovely, then she was purple faced hysteria and finaly asleep in the sling, exhausted again. I really don't want to force her into a routine at all, and if she was basically happy being awake all the day I would be happy, but she gets so frustrated and cries and all I can think is she's tired because I've done everything else on the list. I'm just trying to tell myself that she will be fine tonight and last night was the blip, but I'm just scared that ti will go back to how it was a few weeks back - when she wakes at night she dosn't just feed and go back to sleep, she feeds and then she's often awake for hours, like last night, it's only been rescently with the long sleep she's been more peaceful when she wakes. And that's only happened since I began getting her to sleep twice a day, and the last few days the day sleep has been getting worse and now we're back to little or no night sleep. I just hate the way I seem to fall apart and spend hours crying when things get tough, I guess I was just starting to feel we had made progress and however bad she was during the day, I could cope, I could manage the crying because I was sleeping better at night, and if that's gone it suddenly seemed to undermine everything we've been doing and achieved, and is removing the one thing which was helping me cope. I guess that all sounds a bit dramatic, I know we'll get there again but it felt all rather brutal last night, and I felt terrible, like I was letting her down.

think you need to chill out a bit ...

at 4 months, sleep routines tend to go out the window as they start the teething process and developmental changes/growth spurts etc.

this is pretty run of the mill for this age so try to relax and that will make a difference, i promise.

only thing i'd say is don't get trapped into a routine of having to take her for a walk to get her to sleep. experiment to find alternatives that make your life easier...

tenacityflux- are you breasfeeding and would you co-sleep?

I am breast feeding and we co-sleep once she wakes in the night, which for a while was at 3.30 or later, and I'm normally happy with that as when she's ok I love bringing her into bed and sleeping and napping till 8-ish but last night she wouldn't feed and began rejecting the breast and stiffening up and screaming, so no sleep co or otherwise

And so far no other way has worked to get her to sleep, much as I would like it, and even walking has started to no longer work. I know she's young and frankly I was quite amazed to have a week for her sleeping so well, I'm just like a baby when someone's taken their lolly away, you know it's a treat and not what you should expect to have but you don't have cry when it gets taken away! But look, here's me trying to cheer up and go with the flow, sitting on the sofa with her in the sling asleep and just chatting on mumsnet, missing baby group and eating cake and everything! And even she had to nap today,she also has suddenly missed her long sleep so screamed herself alseep from exhaustion! Ten in the bed again tonight and an early one for me.

tenacity I could have written your message! DS if PFB and will be 15wks on Monday. Never been a brilliant sleeper, but we had a run of few good nights (bed at 8ish, slept til 2/3 then 5/6 which is good for us. He also tends not to consistently feed to sleep especially in the day. If he falls asleep at night feeding, he wakes up again when placed in cot and had been self settling quite well. BUT last few days-been rubbish at napping-has taken 30-60mins to get to sleep then only napping for 30-60mins, then tired again 30-60mins later and have to start the whole depressing, demoralising process all over again. Knackered and very grizzly by 6/7 so have bought bedtime forwards. konked out after bedtime bf, but then awake at 10/11, took 20mins to settle again after feed, awake again 2/3 and taking an hour or more to settle again, and then again at 5 with 20min re-settling. ARRGGGHHHH! Don't think he's having the dreaded 16wk growth spurt yet as he's quite happy to go 3hrs in between feeds in the day (GRRRRR!). Will no longer fall asleep in buggy. No nap at all this morning, is now asleep in sling after listening to deafening white noise for 5mins to stop the inconsolable screeeaaaaming. I get so angry and upset with him at night, as I find it so frustrating that I know he 'can do better' and I'm so bloody tired. I know this just makes things worse but it's SOOOO hard. Have just read NCSS but not sureif is relevant as he can self settle at times, and we don't have a fail safe get to sleep method eg feed to sleep etc. Any ideas anyone??!! Nice to know I'm not alone...!!!

Tenacity you are not alone! I've only been managing to cope in the day as I was usually getting about 6 hours continuous sleep at night. Over the last 3 nights I've had 3 hours max and it just makes everything else so bleak - the endless walking with the pram, DD screaming with tiredness and taking hours to settle. It feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back at the moment.

LittleAnimal - that's EXACTLY what I've experienced - an easy sleeper, going fo r6/7 hour stretches suddenly turned into 2 hourly wakings.

My problem is that we've always fed 2 hourly in the daytime so I have no idea whether anything is a growth spurt and I don't think it is. In fact I have seen no recognisable spurt in 16 weeks.

I have just decided it's a change of pattern that will hopefully start stretching out and once or twice in the last couple of days she's gone more than 2 hours for a daytime feed so perhaps we're starting to stretch feeding out a little...

We're all holding hands spiritually! At least she's now settling at night in 15/20 mins, that's something, we must keep focused on the positives. Mine has a bottle of ebm at bed time and tonight she got hold of it with both hands, took it out of her mouth to take a breath and did it three times, putting it back in each time, how sweet!

Gak, another bad night.I went to bed early but she was awake at 11.30, very unlike her, and so I fed her and we tried to see if she'd go back in her bed, doing the same bedtime routine, but no,in the end we got to 1.30 and I fed her in bed with me and we slept until 3.30, then awake for food, then awake at 6.00 and then at 8 when I got up. She hasn't been like that for weeks, oh dear, I'm just hopping it was because she didn't feed brilliantly during the day and was hungry.I'll feed her more if I can today, got to go out as well.

Yes I too have the need to get a lot in during the day - I find that it's hard to get good feeds in during the day now she's more alert and often easily distracted. SHe's actually almost playful with the breast as tho' she regards it as something that will be there whenever she feels like it so doesnt need to bother much .