2 hours to get to sleep

[littleanimal]

DD is almost 4 months old and it has always been a struggle getting her to sleep. She hasn't slept in the house during the day since she was 3 weeks old. I have to take her for walks in the pram to get all her naps (1 hour in the morning, 2-3 hours over lunch and then 30-45mins late afternoon). She wakes if I take the pram back home (we live in an upstairs flat). Our evenings were hell until a few weeks ago as she had terrible colic and would scream until midnight, when I could feed or rock her to sleep. Now we have the problem that we take on average 2 hours to get her down in the evening, after a bath and feed, using lots of rocking and shushing. She's obviously tired - crying and rubbing eyes. The last 2 nights we have tried pick up/put down (Baby Whisperer) but it's just made her hysterical and we've resorted to feeding her to sleep. Does anyone have any advice on how to get her to sleep. We would love our evenings back and I would love to be able to stay at home during the cold weather!

littleanimal you have my sympathies - DS is clearly tired (he actually nods off then slowly wakes up again, argh!) in th evenings but just can't settle. Still doing our method of mild sleep training and no improvement yet - it's taking 1.5 hrs on average but I'm hoping perseverance will win throuh eventually!

I was going to try experimenting with how many naps he has during the day affecting his evening sleep but to be honest it's a struggle to get him to sleep during the day too, no matter which tired signs I follow, so just concentrating on bedtime for now.

I think 4 months is too little for CC but you coudl try PU/PD - we do a kind of version of it, try to calm him in his cot, if he won't be calmed then I pick him up (BW says don't do PU/PD before 4 months because it's too stimulating, but I think screaming his way into wakefulness is slightly mroe stimulating than being picked up!)

How have the last few nights been?

I have to agree that our DD is ready for bed at 6.30/7.00 , we've tried to make it later but she's too over tired and wants to go to bed, even if it's a struggle. If we keep her up she won't be entertained, just screams and gets upset.

We really don't know what we should do now. For the last 3 weeks we've done a bedtime routine which starts at the first sign of tiredness - usually 1.5 hours after her last nap. Then we have the 2 hour struggle to get her down with rocking/shush/pat (stops the crying but no sleep), feeding, PU/PD (only for 2 nights as made her hysterical), white noise (hairdryer stops crying but doesn't send her to sleep). There has been absolutely no improvement. It's quite easy to tell when she is tired - during the day I get her straight into the pram at that point and she drops off pretty quickly once we get going! If we keep her up past this point she gets overstimulated and overtired and very grizzly - like your DD tenacity. CC is the only thing we haven't done - don't really want to but getting desperate!

It sounds so like us, all I can say is that it still takes us an average of 1 hour 1/2 to get her to bed, and we've been doing it for a month now and we have just started to see an improvement this week, with last night we were able to put her in the crib after winding her after her feed and I sat with my hand on her rocking the crib and singing (Kate Bush and the Doors with folk songs from school choir days!) And she grizzeled for a bit ( 3 mins, I time it) and then half an hour later she was asleep. I think tonight will not go smoothly as she didn't nap for long enough and has got her self worked up and has fallen asleep on me and it's 5.30, so bedtime will have to be pushed back, I'm going to wake her up and feed her in little while to see if that helps so it's not too deep a sleep. One thing we've started doing is I have a bath with her rather than give her a bath in her plastic bath and she kicks about and we play and feed for half and hour as part of her routine which perhaps helps to make her sleepy? Are you breast feeding?(we are)

Hah ha yes, she was a monster to settle tonight, she screamed so much she made herself sick,in my arms a the time, and eventually the singing and rocking took 1 hour 20 mins but we're there - last night she was amazing and slept from 7.30 till 5 am ( I actually woke up worried and woke her to feed her!) so it was only because I'd got some good sleep last night I made it!tfx

Wow!

I mean wow brilliant Tenacity for getting her to sleep so well last night. Hope tonight you get another long stretch.

I mean wow brilliant Tenacity for getting her to sleep so well last night. Hope tonight you get another long stretch.

double posting by mistake.

We got it down to 40 mins tonight,but she didn't nap well and was grumpy as hel all day, you win some, you loose some....

Sounds very similar to us tenacity. Last 2 nights some improvement - took 1.5 hours last night (it was the hairdryer in the end) and 1 hour tonight (DH singing). So maybe things will slowly improve?! Also managed a nap in the morning IN HER COT which is a first!!

That sounds good, still no naps for us unless in the sling, tried the car but she woke after 20 mins and screamed, I shall keep trying the cot, you never know - I really need to learn some more song, or indeed the words to the ones I'm singing now! But I do feel she's getting better, she is sleeping longer which is a blessing, just have to try and get her to nap in the day - the magic sling is wearing off a bit, now she has learnt to push up against me and look out, it takes her longer to fall asleep as she's watching the world go by, so I keep having to walk further. Still, the exercise has taken 2 inches off my hips in a week!

My first post here so I hope you don't mind me hopping in - I don't know all the lingo I'm afraid.

Getting to sleep has always been a real fight at nighttime - it seems to involve a lot of thrashing (arms, kicking legs, head violently switching side to side). Our approach has been to hold the arms - at 15 weeks too old to swaddle -, press down on her legs, hand on tummy and let her such the little finger. It's quite a feat and depending on the violence of the thrashing can take two of us. I do wonder whether we're doing the right thing - surely it shouldnt literally be a battle?

Having spent first 2.5 months sleeping in good long stretches of up to 6 hrs she has all of a sudden taken to waking much earlier (10pm - bedtime approx 7pm depending on how long) and then waking 2 hourly increasing to 1hrly over the nighttime. Not all of these can be hunger so I now need to find solutions to comfort waking.

Like some previous posters feel as though going backwards.

Havent really done structured daytime naps but going to start

apols - "suck" the little finger

That sounds like hard work,do you do baby exercises with her at all? I have no idea and am not in anyway an expert, but perhaps if you had some workout time it might use up some energy?Sometimes I think our DD (Darling daughter!) gets frustrated because her body can't do what she wants and kind of goes into hyper mode, hence me having a bath with her and letting her kick the water for as long as it's warm enough. She's sleeping better at night but the day time is a struggle now, she's really showing her temper bless her, and she's still on napping in the sling, only today she wore her out crying and did pass out when I finally put her down as I had to get my shoes on so we could go out again. I feel bad because when she's been crying for hours over everything I can get angry and I have to put her down and yell at the wall, it's really stressfull at times and I keep eating buiscuits.

A is 4 months today and I've ended up totally the opposite type of parent to what i thought. A has never been put down for a nap since 3 weeks old - I just leave him to fall asleep as and when and transfer him to cot/buggy if he's somewhere inconvenient.

in the evenings i try to feed him as much as possible as he gets grizzly, and he falls asleep sometime between 8.30 and midnight. once i was told about evening cluster feeding it became clear that A is usually hungry when he won't settle - although when he's had a cold he'll also scream when his head hits the mattress. So I tend to keep him on my lap in the evening so he can feed and doze and then transfer to cot when he looks both calm and stuffed! Sometimes he gets too grouchy to feed properly so I give him a bottle.

Rolling him in a swaddling blanket still works quite well but I've started using a grobag with his familiar blankie on top so he can grab or nuzzle it. Ideally he'll stay able to sleep anywhere as long as he has one of his blankets...no idea how any of this will work in the long term!

Feel like a crap mummy with no routine (he's had 3 baths ever), but I think he's a stubborn git like his parents, and atm waiting for him to go to sleep is working - he then sleeps for 5-6 hours.

I think my last posting tempted fate as it has just taken 4 hours to get DD to sleep. It started out as trying to get a nap in her cot as she was really grizzly at 4.30 (woke too early from afternoon nap as I foolishly came home from our walk.)After 1.5 hrs I gave up and started the bedtime routine, and then it took another 2.5 hrs and I fed her to sleep. She's been hysterical with tiredness through a lot of that time. Boriscoo - we hold DDs hands to try and stop her rubbing her eyes as that always wakes her if she's dropping off. Think it helps.

It actually sounds like you're doing pretty well, I mean, your baby wants to feed all evening and so that's what you do then he sleeps 5/6 hours - if that's after midnight. pretty much a good nights sleep! And he falls asleep in the day, my daughter hardly ever does, today I tried to get her to nap for an hour between 9 and 10 and we just had hysteria and smiles and more hysteria until I had to get her in the sling and go out for 1 1/2 hours so she'd sleep; then between 12 and 2 some nice times but mostly screaming with tired-ness and me trying everything I can think of to calm her down and get her to sleep - until I put her down so I can put the sling on again and she screams blue murder, closes her eyes, opens them and screams again and passes out. I put her in the sling anyway and she does 2 hours, and then is a perfect angel for once in the evening as for once she's had enough nap time. It is soooooo frustrating because if only she would sleep in the day, we would all be happier, she would be happier, I know I am getting more sleep at night than I was and I've got her down to 40 mins/1 hour to go to sleep and a whole lot of nursery rhymes, but I live in fear that this will end as well and we'll be back at square one. I lost it today and put her down in her cot and yelled at the wall 'Just shut up!' then cried my eyes out holding her and feeling guilty as hell - so if you're a bad parent I'm even worse! Have you tried having a bath with your son and feeding him in the bath? my daughter loves that, and she usually always plays up at her bedtime feed, if I do it in the bath she's good as gold! I feel so bad, I love her so much and I love being with her, if only she would nap when she was tired! BTW - The blankie thing is great and what Elizabeth what-sit heartily recommends in her no cry sleep book, so that's fantastic you've done that, I haven't managed that yet!

Tenacity - the exercise is a good suggestion. We were doing yoga and massage quite regularly but I think I've slipped over Christmas. Did some exercise last night and we did have a better night altho' it's all rather coincidental. THe bathtime we have is odd - aside from often pooing in the bath - not nice when we're sharing! - she does this wierd kicking thing, looking really aggressive. I tended to cut this short as it's strange but maybe we should go hell for leather as you suggest!

Little animal - thanks for the reassurance; DD (am learning Tenacity!)needed swaddling and is a wriggly monster at the best of times.

Tenacity - and all - don't think anyone posting about how to help their baby sleep for both the baby and their own benefit can possibly be a bad parent. You care. You're trying to fix things. And its flippin' hard as I'm discovering.

It's true, at least we care! It's good news bad news, the good news is she slept from 7.30 till 5 am which is amazing, the bad news is I have been trying since 8 to get her to sleep and even the usual stuff isn't working she woke after 20 mins of our walk and didn't go back to sleep, she fell asleep feeding but woke a second later; and then she was so over tired we had 1 1/2 purple faced screaming with me walking her up and down, bouncing, singing, everything I could think of, in the end it's back in the sling and she's passed out but she's restless, keeps stiring and screaming - i can't seem to find anyway to get her to nap!I know the nights are much better and otherwise i couldn't cope, and i would be happy to have her awake all day only she just gets ratty and screams.
Borriscoo - I'd let her go for it in the bath, my DD does the same thing and she loves it, and touch wood she hasn't pooed yet!

I remember at that stage 20 mins meant my baby would not go back to sleep again for at least two hours or longer (?)When they are older that seems to happen a lot as well, falling asleep for ten minutes in car and waking up when you get them out means no two hour nap which normally they might have had. Very frustrating but the way it is.
Do you think that if she is sleeping better at night, she might mana ge to sleepin a cot during the day, using same cues for one of the naps at least. You could always try, or try the pram now instead of sling. You might be pleasantly surprised. She sounds so full of beans that maybe it's just not boring enough for her in sling for her to tune out, now that she's older.

dream mover it does the pram walking for you

I have tried the cot and the moses basket every day, the moment she's doing the eye rubbing and yawning in she goes but no joy yet - I'll try her night bed tomorrow perhaps with the same routine and if that fails, perhaps try the pram? I think before she was getting a bit cold as it was so frosty, if it's warmer tomorrow it may help. She did finally have nearly 2 hours in the sling this afternoon, but she kept rousing herself every 20/30 mins, she self settles at night pretty well as I often hear her wake and then go back to sleep, oh well, perhaps when she's able to do more in the day she'll get the hang of napping?