I can't do this anymore.

[Pinkjenny]

I have officially come to the end of the line with co-sleeping. Last night dd didn't go to sleep until 10.35pm, despite being exhausted and me having been lying on the bed with her since 7.45pm. She continued to wake through the night, on and off, and consequently has gone to nursery in a very bad mood.

She is full of cold, and has a bit of a cough, but when I went downstairs with her at 9.25pm to beg dh for help so that I could eat my dinner, she was actually laughing and smirking, so I refuse to believe that she is feeling that unwell.

I have to get her sleeping properly. She is 14mo.

I have had enough. Please help me.

Sorry - that was a bit long!!!

PJ how was last night did she stay in bed all night?

hellymelly - I don't appreciate your sentiments at all, and totally disagree with you. The main issue here is that my daughter needs more sleep than she is currently getting, and going to sleep with me has turned into a big game. It's my responsibility as her mother to ensure she is well rested. How dare you suggest that I think dd is being manipulative, I never said that once. Jam - you know the trouble I've had , thank you.

At the risk of being judged, what happened was this...

It took me an hour and a half to settle her in her room. She had her bottle in her room, and never went back downstairs. I stayed with her for the full 90 minutes, cuddling her and rocking her a bit and reassuring her that it was only bedime, blah blah blah. To be honest, she wasn't as resistant to the cot as I thought she would be, the main thing unsettling her was the cough. She messed about a bit, trying to feed me her bottle, that kind of thing, and eventually fell asleep, holding my hand, but in her cot.

She actually only stayed there for an hour, and then I brought her in with us. I am sure that most people will disagree with this, as somehow the thread took a strangely hostile turn for a little while there. However, for me, I felt so proud of her that she had gone to sleep in the cot at all.

I need to take the baby steps approach suggested to me, otherwise I'll end up caving in. So tonight, I carry on, and we take it from there.

Thank you to all the people that have offered wonderful advice. It really helped, and I thought of you all last night, it kept me going. xx

OK, that was a bit harsh on hellmelly. I'm just trying so hard that criticism is not well received at the moment.

Sorry.

don't worry PJ. I doubt if hellymelly meant to be harsh - or that many co-sleepers go to bed at 7.45 because they know their dd can't sleep without them - you are a hero for doing that!

Glad last night was better. It'll be a long haul but hopefully it will get better.

And as for manipulative - many 14 month olds know what they want and know how to get it. They are not "just babies" - they can and do maninpulate their environments and the people who care for them and some of it is deliberate. IMO that is a good thing - so to say a baby is being manipulative should be a compliment to their intelligence and abilities. You have a bright dd!

What they can't do is understand what effects their behaviour has - they are all egocentric.

Gagarin - I know, I must preview my posts when I am feeling so emotional. For me, its just such a huge relief that she went to sleep in the cot at all, and although she wasn't in there long, I really felt like we'd achieved something (albeit I'm sure others may say I am confusing her). I honestly thought it would take hours and hours of screaming, and I was amazed. I am sure that if it hadn't been for her cough, she'd have settled for longer.

I really never meant to suggest she was being manipulative, more that she understands cause and effect, i.e. if I do this, this will happen. My overriding concern has always been for her wellbeing, and when I allow a situation where she goes to bed at 10.35pm even when I know she is totally exhausted, I am not doing what is best for her.

PJ, well done! Agree it is about teaching 'baby steps'. Do agree about being consistent but that doesn't mean you can' t be flexible... Not ignoring your CAT - havent received it yet...

baby steps PJ great start to the night well done.

Goodness me, if a baby weren't manipulative, it wouldn't survive. I wholeheartedly agree with gagarin, it's a good thing. hellymelly is of course right that all too often babies are labelled with malicious intent and that 'manipulative' label is levelled at babies as a criticism. A baby wanting a cuddle and to be in close proximity to its parents is a simple and good thing. She isn't to know the context and background of your sleep issues of course and doesn't know the anxiety, sleep deprivation and detrimental effect on your relationship with dh. I think we've discussed how hard MN can be when the full story isn't apparent to all. You must make steps now for all three of you. L's tired, you're frustrated and the sleeping bit of co-sleeping is the key one I think and it isn't one that you're experiencing.

PJ, she fell asleep in her cot, that's a wonderful thing and if it felt right to you to take her into your bed when she woke then that was your instinct and good on you for following it. She's poorly and still made a massive step last night. Let's hope tonight she has a bit longer in her cot as her cough gets better, a bit longer the next day and so on.

PJ, repeat after me. She. Feel. Asleep. In. Her. Cot.

Have a cake, go on...

OOOH SOH - I had a mini-bar of Green and Blacks on the way to work! I hope you know I don't think L is manipulative.

PJ - but we think manpiulative dcs are the bees knees! Cos it shows they understand the world !

Only a mini-bar? Should have been the biggie

Pinkjenny I haven't had time to read all this thread but just wanted t let you knwo that if you do decide cosleeping is till for you then it won't be liek this forever. DS was exactly the same and now I take him t obed, lie down with him and 5 mins later I am shutting the door behind me, enjoying dinner on time and an evening (remember those!) He is 3 and co-sleeping is still working fo rus thiugh I am PG so that may change too. All I'm sayingif they odf go through stages adn when you're i it, it's hrd to beleive it will ever get better. I alwasy nwo when DS is coming down with something as he is very unsettled in bed beforehand adn it does make nights crap but much better than having to get up to them in another room imo.

I did have one thing to add and please don't think there is any implied criticism in it but what kind of time do you spend together between getting back from work and her going to bed? Is it rushed or relaxed? I only ask this as I'm a SAHM but do notice a similar pattern of behaviour in DS if I've had a day when I havn't been able to give him much attention or if DH comes home from work late and doesn't spend as much time with him as usual.

thehouseofmirth - I make sure that I spend all my time with her when I get home from work, but alas time with dd is never relaxed. She's a very busy lady!

Sympathy! We've tried just about everything and given up with DD (6) and DS (2). Some children need a lot of sleep, some don't - ours would stay up all night and get up at dawn if they could - and in the middle of the night to to come trotting in to your bed. The pattern varies over time, but we're fed up of parenting books and well-meaning friends - we just go with the flow and accept it won't be forever. Though we are saving up for a king-size bed and associated joinery to accommodate it.

micra - LOL. We have a superking size which dominates our whole bedroom. We bought it in the days when we were embracing cosleeping as a solution to tiredness. Unfortunately, SK bed or not, I can't go to bed at 7pm every night any more!

Off home shortly. Already feeling slightly sick about carrying on tonight.

Will keep you posted.

Hi, understand completely and am in similar situation. Ds3 nearly 1, is a dreadful sleeper comapred to my elder two (9 & 6. Although he settles at moment still on the breast and then goes in to cot ok, he generally wakes within the hr then is difficult to settle again. He always ends up in bed with me for more feeding and sleeping so he dosn't disturd the rest of them. Both the other two went to sleep on the breast then into bed and sleep through. After they were off b/f they both settled really well in cots and sleeped well.
Although I'm in need of a good nights sleep CC would be difficult in the eves as Dh rarely home before 8pm and have the other 2 to sort. through the night he can wake the eldest then she doesn't get back to sleep. I do feel that once he's stopped b/f then the issue will resolve but until will keep trying to return him to his cot during the night.

Good luck PJ

Hello PJ my favourite Scouser. I'm thinking about you and L tonight!

Of course I know you don't think she's manipulative. I snort at the very idea.

M and L are going to get on famously. They'll be so busy. LG&T can put them all to bed, we'll sit in the garden and pretend we're relaxed about the whole thing.

Hi. I'm new to mumsnet but just wanted to add my experience. I have a 14 month boy who until a month or so ago was a nightmare to put to bed. I used to cosleep when he was ill/ grumpy/ wouldn't sleep alone, but it became impossible to do that as I don't get a wink of sleep due to him crawling around in his sleep and poking me in the eye etc. The way I got him to go to sleep alone was to lie on the floor in his room while he was in his cot. To start with he wasn't happy and he would try to get my attention by shouting, chatting and throwing things at me, but I was resolute at not engaging with him. I had a good book to read to pass the time, which helped a lot as I'm not a patient person. Eventually after what seemed like ages, he dropped off to sleep (collapsed more like!). I did this for a few weeks and eventually he learned to go to sleep in his cot. Since then I've been able to put him up to bed alone and he goes to sleep quite happily. My DS is extremely stubborn so CC was not an option for us, it made things much worse. Hope this helps you. I've regained my evenings, my OH and I can finally eat dinner together and hols a conversation, hooray!

I am currently going through this now with our 16 month old daughter. I love co-sleeping, but not the part where I had to go to bed at 7:30 when she did...really sucked and I admit I got resentful of it. So at 11 months we tried putting her in her crib and having Daddy stay in the room ...failed miserably.

Now she is older, and we have recently put her cot mattress or the floor next to our bed. She is nursed and then DADDY gets her to sleep. It is going really well. Yes she cries, but now at her age she understands so much more, and the cry is much pissed off than the heart wrenching cries when we tried at 11 months. And we always go to her. This is important to us. We only hug her quietly, but I am not personally comfortable letting her cry and not be responded to.

She usually sleeps 3 hours before waking, and then we bring her into our bed. Not perfect, but REAL progress. Once she really gets used to it and goes down easily, then we will work on extending the time before we bring her in.

As she is BF, having her in the room works for us.

I will say, if my husband didn't do his part this wouldn't work.

Every child and situation is different...there is no right way. Listen to your gut, know your limits, and don't think it all has to be fixed overnight...as much as we would like it to be.

Good luck.

Good luck with tonight.

So far...

7.00pm - falls asleep on bedtime milk
7.33pm - wakes up
7.58pm - back to sleep and mummy goes back downstairs to reheat her dinner

She's still asleep. I've achieved my goal for tonight which was to get her back to sleep when she properly woke up, which I didn't manage last night.

Definitely baby steps, but massive strides for me.

We are Co-sleeping with DS and we have decided that it is time for him to sleep in his cot. We didn't want to do the whole crying thing, we don't feel comfortable with it and it seems so harsh after being snuggled up with us so we are doing it pretty slowly.

We have a set bed time routine and he starts in his cot but at some point in the night ends up with us. It gives us some time but enjoy waking with him and those first smiles and kisses!

Mostly we just persist at putting him back in his cot, sometimes it feels like the umpteeth time in 5 minutes but he usually gives in and he is staying in longer and waking less.

We have read loads of book and we pick out the bits to try that seem to work for us. We are using bits from The Baby Sleep Book: How to help your baby to sleep and have a restful night by Dr Sears. The No-Cry Sleep Solution: Gentle Ways to Help Your Baby Sleep Through the Night by Elizabeth Pantley Also bits from Tracy Hogg the Baby Whisperer, you can down load video clips of her dealing with co-sleepers, just had a look and they are repeating some shows on Discovery home and health (library.digiguide.com/lib/programme/Baby+Whisperer-198391/Health/)

Good luck