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I can't do this anymore.

127 replies

Pinkjenny · 30/07/2008 10:23

I have officially come to the end of the line with co-sleeping. Last night dd didn't go to sleep until 10.35pm, despite being exhausted and me having been lying on the bed with her since 7.45pm. She continued to wake through the night, on and off, and consequently has gone to nursery in a very bad mood.

She is full of cold, and has a bit of a cough, but when I went downstairs with her at 9.25pm to beg dh for help so that I could eat my dinner, she was actually laughing and smirking, so I refuse to believe that she is feeling that unwell.

I have to get her sleeping properly. She is 14mo.

I have had enough. Please help me.

OP posts:
popsycal · 30/07/2008 10:50

I know I am the odd one out here, but I think once things are this bad, CC achieves nothing but stress for everyone.

But that is just my opinion.

Havew a search for my threads in sleep topic over the last three years to get a picture of where i am coming from...

Pinkjenny · 30/07/2008 10:55

Popsycal - that sounds like a really good idea. Can you give me any more tips on what you did?

SOH (who knows me well) - you are right. As always. I so want to be a good mum and respond to her needs, but this just isn't working, for any of us.

And I know that rescuing her from her dad sounds ridiculous, but that's what I do.

What a knob I am. I really thought I'd be a mum that gave boundaries, and I am just useless.

OP posts:
bundle · 30/07/2008 10:59

you're deffo not a knob, you're a mum trying to do her best

and popsy, I thought that too, I wasn't what I would have thought was a cc-type-mum (whatever that is) but it worked for us and lots of other people.

but obviously it's up to you, pinkjenny, do what you think is best. I only posted it out of kindness and you did sound pretty desperate

Pinkjenny · 30/07/2008 11:00

I am definitely desperate for us all to get some sleep. And if CC is the only way, then its the only way.

Thanks bundle - you are a very wise lady!

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ShowOfHands · 30/07/2008 11:03

PJ, you're not useless at all. What a preposterous thought. You're a bit mixed up. Responding to L's needs isn't all co-sleeping and lentil weaving. She needs good, interrupted sleep and a Mum who isn't resenting evenings and struggling against a wilful child each bedtime. And you know what, you will find it. What's happening once you're in your room with her? Are you on the bed the whole time?

bundle · 30/07/2008 11:06

snort @ being wise!

really, I wish you all the best in trying whatever suits your family xxx

Pinkjenny · 30/07/2008 11:07

We stay on the bed and she:

  • Chucks herself about
  • Blows raspberries on my tummy
  • Sticks her fingers up my nose
  • Climbs all over me

And then falls asleep. I had been standing up and rocking her periodically, but now she knows what I am trying to do so fights me if I try to do that!

I even resort to pretending I am asleep. Which never works because she tries to put her fingers in my mouth or pokes at my eyes.

Oh, the fun!

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SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 30/07/2008 11:11

oh pj mine does that too or lifts up her top and says 'aha there' meaning she wants me to tickle her tummy.

can you try laying on the bed with her but laying her back down every time she gets up? it might make things more settled. and have you tried a warm milk drink while trying to get her settled?

bundle · 30/07/2008 11:16

pinkjenny, what a lovely image!

but is:

  • Chucks herself about
  • Blows raspberries on my tummy
  • Sticks her fingers up my nose
  • Climbs all over me

Bedtime behaviour???

try doing this stuff at other awake times of day (reinforcement!)

put her toys to bed, bath them etc first, get hankies as their sheets and get her to help tuck them in

make it a game but a v quiet one..

twelveyeargap · 30/07/2008 11:16

Hey PJ. Did you read the no-cry sleep solution yet? I don't know anything about it, I just remember you saying you had it...

There's no point in going to bed with her any more if she's not settling down (apart from the fact it's driving you bonkers.)

She HAS to go into her own bed or cot. You can put her little bed mattress on the floor so she can't fall off a bed, or you can try the cot. (Obviously with a cot she can't get up and run around when you leave her.)

Like I said before, I found that "extinction" worked best for me. I don't have the patience for CC. Cried for an hour the first night, then 10 mins, 5 mins and then she realised that going to sleep was actually quite nice and asks to go to bed now.

My action plan would be:
Protect her nap and nap time. If she's sleeping one to two hours a day, then it should be in the middle of the day. 12-2 or 1-3 or something. She needs to have a regular nap time and duration so she is not overtired at night. She shouldn't be allowed to "crash" when she's overtired for a nap.

Decide where she is going to sleep at night and stick with it.

Protect her bedtime. If she gets up at about 7, then she needs to be going to bed by about 7 - before she gets manic with tiredness.

Do your bedtime routine. Keep it simple and calm. I think having your mum around (you mentioned it before) is a bad move, tbh. Quiet calm time with the two of you. Talk to her about going to sleep in her bed.

Last feed in her room. DO NOT take her out of the room after the last feed. Say goodnight or whatever you want to do, lay her down in the cot, and LEAVE. Clearly she is getting a buzz out of having you around, otherwise she'd settle down beside you in bed.

She's going to cry, of course she is, but crying isn't going to harm her. She'll get over this a lot quicker at 13/14 months than when she's two or three. At this age she won't remember.

DON'T listen in on the monitor. There is no point in torturing yourself. You're going to be able to hear anyway - it doesn't need amplification. Allow her at least half an hour to settle. That will seem like an interminable amount of time to you if you're just sitting listening, so busy yourself. Have a shower or something.

Remember what she wants is for you to come in and get her, (who can blame her), but if you keep going in, she's going to keep crying for you. She's not daft. If you want to change things, then you have to be strong. She is looking to you for guidance. You have to be strong.

If the crying has lulls and peaks, then she's fine. If she's screaming herself hoarse, then you might have to consider spending a few nights going back in at irregular intervals (so she doesn't learn to just cry for longer to get your to come back) to calm her and put her back down, but you can't give in and take her back to your bed. She's old enough now to understand that if she protests for long enough that you'll give in. (A cries when we get to the childminder's door. She only goes once a week, but can remember week to week that now is the time I leave her. L will absolutely cotton on that if you give in one night, you'll do it again.)

It's going to be bloody hard, but not as hard as ending up with a baby who doesn't sleep until midnight and then fidgets all night because she's so overtired and full of adrenaline.

At this age, I really don't believe that you are going to be able to do this without tears. There may be other people who've succeeded, but I really believe that the tears you're going to get will be those of frustration, not sadness. She's just going to be seriously narked that you're leaving her. (Again with A and the childminder - she has a tantrum after I'm gone. She doesn't sit sobbing with sadness at being left, she's crying with the sheer frustration that I have left her. I've seen her do it when her dad leaves in the morning, so I don't see how leaving a baby to go to sleep at night isn't a similar thing.)

bundle · 30/07/2008 11:16

(ps dh does all that mucking about stuff at bedtime too..sigh )

popsycal · 30/07/2008 11:19

Pinkjenny - I am probably the last person to be gving advice. DS2 was 3 before he slept through in his own bed and still doesnt every night (he was 3 in March). However, a few things, in many stages, between Christmas and March this year, helped.

  • staying over at grandparents
  • stopping breast feeding (which he did until 2 weeks before his birthday)
  • taking him back to his room when he woke getting the bed time routine i.e. him starting off in his own room every night sorted before even thinking* about during the night
  • ruling out medical issues - we thought he had sleep apnoea and he had a sleep study done in hospital, When we knew we could rule it out,m we knew it was behvioural/habit
  • lots of praise (but he was lots older than your dd)
  • staying calm but firm - impossible when you are so sleep deprived - which is why I suggest doing it in really small steps so you have achieveable goals for your own sanity
popsycal · 30/07/2008 11:20

the first thing we sorted though was going to bed

twelveyeargap · 30/07/2008 11:24

Oh and if that sounds horrific and vile, then I think we talked before about mattress in her room, didn't we and you staying there til she slept.

It doesn't solve the problem of getting her off to sleep on her own, but it does get her out of your bed at least...

Maybe it's a start? I think it's probably exchanging one set of problems for another, but it really depends what you think you can handle.

Also keep in mind what the sleep counsellor said; that the problem seems to be with you and her, not whether she can fall asleep on her own. You know she can do that, so it's up to you whether you are willing to teach her that going to bed without you is ok.

popsycal · 30/07/2008 11:25

just reminded me - mattress next to the bed. We tried this just before he was two (search for threads around december 2006!!) and that helped a bit too.....but then regressed

bundle · 30/07/2008 11:26

mattress next to bed disaster for my boss - her ds ended up sleeping there till he was 12!

ShowOfHands · 30/07/2008 11:27

Absolutely don't take this the wrong way PJ, but I'm not at all surprised. It's a big game isn't it? And you're such a willing participant. In my humble and limited opinion, your first step should be to move the room she falls asleep in and not allow yourself to be a plaything. It'll take time and patience but I think baby steps are needed.

What about putting her in her cot with a couple of her favourite toys once she's bathed, read to, tired out and ready? Sit on a chair by her cot and let her play on her own for a while. She needs to learn that her cot is a safe, happy place and mummy isn't a toy. Or if that's too much and she fights it, a mattress on her floor so she can play with her things instead of you and periodically encourage her to lie down and play quietly. Then turn down/off her light and put on a night light or just the landing light. Keep it gradual and relaxed
and let her learn to feel drowsy and calm. She needs to learn to calm down slowly herself, relax and want to give in to it. I'd sit up out of reach so she can't pull hair/prod your eyes and pick her up if she wants a cuddle and to lie in your arms, but put her down if she starts fiddling. She'll protest but she'll be testing your limits.

I wish I could help you more.

bundle · 30/07/2008 11:27

what showofhands said

Sleep Hygiene

popsycal · 30/07/2008 11:29

i meant a mattress next to her bed mnot her sleeping on a mattress next to your bed....

fwiw ds2'ss main problems were not getting to sleep but staying asleep

ShowOfHands · 30/07/2008 11:33

I'm off out. You know the invisible 'hippy' disclaimer at the beginning of all my threads don't you?

You need to make a decision and stick to it.

bundle 12?

popsycal · 30/07/2008 11:34

Lots of good advice - but until you have been in such a position - years of sleep deprivation - I really don't think you can understand how hard it is to make a decision and stick to it. Let alone make any decision at all

bundle · 30/07/2008 11:44

yup 12!

fwiw my girls are still poor at getting to sleep, despite my own ahem wisdom. once they're asleep though a herd of elephants couldn't wake them!

Pinkjenny · 30/07/2008 11:44

Thanks for all of your advice. Sorry I went AWOL for a minute, I am supposed to be working .

But clearly this is more important.

SOH and everyone else that said bedtime is a game - you're absolutely right. And a lot of it is caught up in my guilt that I haven't seen her all day so I treasure those hours. I did not, however, treasure them last night, and the solution has now become the problem.

Thanks popsy - misery loves company

TYG - I did get the NCSS - but I don't get time to read the bloody thing, because I go to bed at 7pm!

OP posts:
JamInMyWellies · 30/07/2008 11:49

PJ my love, you know my point of view on this and I do agree with both TYG and SOH.

I also think that maybe you need to relinquish control of the situation and organise for DH to be home for 1 wk to do bedtime all on his own and with a strong iron will and you need to leave the house break the assocaition of you putting Lexie to bed.

Are you coming down to see SOH if so stop off a night with me and I will tough love her get you drunk so you dont notice

Pinkjenny · 30/07/2008 11:54

I was trying to hide from the May 07 bunch as you have all heard me talk about sorting this out so many times!

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