Baby feeds hourly at night

[Inneedofsupport]

I’m absolutely broken and I can’t do it anymore. Husband and baby are asleep next to me. I’m on my 4th wake up already and it’s not 3am yet when the torture really starts.

I think my 9mo is reverse cycling. She is waking every 1-2hr and feeds. I have tried not giving her the boob but she moans and cries until she gets it. She is in a side car cot next to me. In her earlier months I ended up co sleeping because I needed more sleep. Whenever I lifted her out of the next to me and fed her and tried to put her back in, she’d wake and I’d end up holding her. So I decided to co sleep so I’d get more sleep. Health visitor told me to learn how to feed lying down and continue ‘feeding responsively’ Then I got this cot inside car’d. And so here we are. Health visitors aren’t here in the night are they…

I’ve been trying gentle sleep training as I thought she wasn’t ‘linking cycles’. In quotes as I’m not even sure it’s a thing anymore. She now doesn’t fall asleep with boob and I have to walk her. But in the night she feeds and goes back to sleep. But I can’t.

In the day there is not set times for feeds. I logged feed after feed after feed and never ever saw a pattern. She now just feeds about 4 times in total daytime. 3 solids meals daily. Porridge/eggs. Lunch maybe a cheese sandwich bites and banana, dinner tonight was beef and rice and she ate loads.

Sorry I’m rambling. I don’t know how to fix it. I want her to sleep in the cot and feed properly in the day time. Like all my other mum friends do. I don’t want to ‘give in’ and get a floor bed.

People keep asking me if she’s sleeping through the night. If I’m enjoying motherhood. No and no. My mum keeps saying she thinks I look a bit tired. Husband says he’ll help with night settling but he doesn’t even hear her wake up. I tell him I do this feeding like this so everyone gets more sleep. Don’t think he really appreciates what it means for me and what would his night would look like if just got up and went in the other room and locked the door.

Sorry for the ramble. Thanks for reading if you got this far.

I personally think 2.5-3hrs at that age is too much, unless you have a baby with very high sleep needs. Assuming shes on 2 naps, I’d be capping one nap at 30 mins. Mine is 14 months and she has 60-90 minutes sleep in the day, always has done. She has never slept through the night, I am currently working to not breastfeed til about 3am (husband settles her before that, usually only once). She has a floor bed in her room and I usually end up sleeping there with her from 3/4am, it’s the way we get the most sleep. We still do some contact naps.

Cheers @Peonies12 something to think about.

Yesterday we were out and about and she had 1h40m. She woke up about 5/6 times up to 2am when I gave up and brought her in with me. She now has a tooth erupting so I think that’s the reason for this particular phase of bad sleep. But, like I say, it’s been like this for months anyway.

We need to draw a line as to when husband settles and when I feed as at the moment we’re both getting up 🤦‍♀️ last night he was settling but she was waking as soon as he stopped or within 15mins. She’s just not a happy bunny lately and probably not a good time to try and get her used to the cot 😫

I could write loads but I feel it would be too rambley and long. I’m so sorry it’s so tough at the moment, these little people definitely can need us lots. Please please look up the possums approach and method it might just make life a little better!! It takes two weeks for sleep pressure to adjust and things to work bear that in mind!

you’ll get so many opinions and advice, you really need to trust yourself and your instinct with your baby.

Thank you @Sorrell23 I’ve just had a brief read. How very refreshing. It certainly takes pressure off.

Maybe I’ve been too worried about feeding to sleep being an issue. I can say I’ve tried a few things and it’s not made a difference. However we could certainly have a better morning routine including a more consistent wake up time. Something to think about.

@Inneedofsupport you definitely need a consistent wake up time. Even if they haven’t slept through. We always woke ours up at 7am. To be honest if you are going back to work in February it would be really unfair on the baby not to set this in place now so they are used to it. You can’t just start changing their usual way (in this case sleeping in) suddenly and expect them & the nursery/childminder to just deal with it.

Thanks for your post @converseandjeans I think you’ve assumed that sleeping in is her usual way but it’s not. She normally wakes on her own between about 7 and 7:30 regardless if she’s had lots of wakes. I wake her at 7:30 if she doesn’t herself. It’s not a huge variation but it could be refined. That’s all I meant.

Don't worry, no one is going to have to suddenly deal with anything, I’m a good parent :)

@Inneedofsupport but you said you need a better morning routine with a consistent wake up time. So presumably you don’t always get up at 7.30?

@Inneedofsupport you also say you don’t have a consistent bed time. You need to stick to same bed time every night & same wake up time.

You need to work out max awake & sleep hours per day. If baby is napping too long in the day then they will just be up & about at night time. They’re probably not tired enough.

More consistent wake up time. No, we are not always up at 7:30, It’s usually between 7-7:30. But we are always up by 7:30.

The issue of any morning inconsistency is really the other way where she wakes up earlier than expected, say 6:15-6:30. In these cases if I can’t get her back to sleep I would just get up and start the day. So it’s not that I let her sleep in.

Bedtime depends on when she woke from her afternoon nap and her last WW is about 3.5 - 4 hours - that’s how long she can stay awake for. Sometimes it’s brought forward, sometimes a bit later. Tends to be no earlier than 6:45-7pm and no later than 8:30.

I have never tried ignoring the WW and just putting her down at the same time every night. That is something significant I can try.

The only time I noticed she slept well, she’d had 4 hrs day sleep and 10.5 hrs at night. But that was ages ago when she was on 3 naps per day.

When she wakes up she’s upset and crying, it’s like she really does want to go back to sleep. She’s not ready for playing or thinks it day time.

@Inneedofsupport I’m not trying to be difficult but you came on here & presumably want help? My advice would be to always wake up baby at 7am & have set lunch nap 12-2 was what we used to do. Then a consistent bedtime. I know some people hate being tied down & they like to go with the flow. But all childcare settings operate very much on a schedule & babies sleep better that way. It’s better for you & also them. I don’t think co-sleeping is the answer for you to get more proper sleep to be honest.

@converseandjeans I did and I’m grateful to receive it. I’m trying to give a picture of what our set up is. I’ve said I will try your suggestion of a set bedtime and perhaps not go by the WW so much. She is still on two naps per day so a lot does depend on the length of these in terms of evening timings. It’s difficult to get her off for a third short nap later in the day in order to get her to bedtime - so sometimes it’s earlier.

But I don’t think I said anything about my childcare arrangements; I am not looking for support on how to fit her sleep in with that. I mentioned going back in February because I won’t be able to function well in my role on such poor sleep (and I won’t be able to catch up on sleep in the day then either, which I think a PP had suggested).

@Inneedofsupport I only mentioned childcare as nursery and childminder will want all the babies and toddlers to nap at the same time. So if you get up at 7 every day & they follow the nursery day with the others you should see an improvement. From memory at 9 months they would nap 9-9.45 and then again 12-2 or 1-3 and then go to bed at 7/7.30. I used to wake mine up if they didn’t wake up from their nap at the right time. I was back at work when DD was just over 4 months & wouldn’t have coped with broken sleep. I just think you should focus on yourself & getting some rest. It’s impossible to function on little sleep. Babies & children like a routine & it’s surely better for them too if they sleep at night instead of during the day. You might find a dream feed at 10.30/11pm might avoid one of the night wakings.

Thanks @converseandjeans she already wakes at 10:30/11 as one of her multiple wakes so she does get fed then anyway 😅(😫)

Did you manage to resolve multiple night wakes by sticking to set times? Or had you done it for the get go and never had multiple wakes? Also did you bf? No judgement at all I’m just trying to get a sense of everyone’s different experiences and circumstances, and what worked or didn’t work.

I agree with you that co sleeping isn’t actually getting me more sleep. Now I get up and get her out of the cot. But at least when I go back to bed I can starfish in our super king. In those short hours in between her wakes I get better sleep.

@Inneedofsupport I must admit I did routine from day 1. So no we didn’t get multiple wake ups & on the rare occasion they did wake up we kept room dark. I wouldn’t have coped with limited sleep so it was important to me. My sleep is worse in perimenopause & I’ve found it really debilitating trying to function after waking up in the middle of the night.

I don’t know how easy it is to put a routine into place at 9 months but it’s definitely worth a try? It’s important for you (and baby) to be getting decent sleep. I’d imagine there is someone on insta you could look at.

Hopefully you work something out to suit you. Also if you are on Instagram there are some fab accounts for holistic and nurturing baby sleep - lyndsey hookaway, nurture narrative and second star to the right.

babies, like people have different temperaments and sleep is another developmental milestone. Don’t for one minute let anyone make you think that their great parenting or the fact they implemented a routine is the reason they have a baby that sleeps or slept. I know lots of babies that are forced into routines and ‘self settle’ to sleep and guess what, some - not all still wake at night.

how are you getting on? I have also found when my baby was definitely reverse cycling to make sure I feed him to sleep for day naps and when he wakes Up from them as he feeds best when sleepy. I know not always possible but when at home it works well as he won’t feed out and about, life is too interesting

Thanks @Sorrell23 that’s a good tip to feed when she wakes up as well. It’s really hard to feed her in the day even at home, because she’s so distracted, and I’ve just about given up trying if we’re out! Unless I can find a very quiet private space.

We’re doing ok thanks. I said in a previous post that I’m now getting out of bed to settle her but because I can sleep alone in my own bed, I think the quality of sleep I’m getting is a bit better. Husband has moved to the spare room as he wasn’t well and was a noisy sleeper!

He has been putting her to bed so we can try and move away a bit from feeding to sleep. He will settle her for wakes 1-2 hrs after sleep then I take over and use boob if I can’t shush her back to sleep. He will also come in if he hears her crying and walk her or at least offer to. Last night she woke 6 times and he settled the first two before midnight, and last, which was about 5am and after I’d just fed. So I did 3 feeds. This amount, I can handle. If they are at roughly the same time each night, I think I can manage.

In terms of a routine, we do have one it’s just not at exact set times. I’ve been following wake windows, so if a nap is on the short side, then it can shift the bedtime. Anyway I’m going to try a set bedtime now and see how it goes. I’ll check out the insta accounts. Thanks.

Is she eating lots of protein rich foods during the day? I seem to remember the on the hour feeds during the night got better as ours ate more tofu during the day.

@Knittedanimal I was hoping that solids might gradually reduce the wakes which is why I’ve not posted about this earlier :/

Breakfast is typically eggs and toast, porridge and banana, or pancakes with soft cheese and banana. I’ve been adding formula milk to her eggs lately (I only get a piddly amount when hand expressing bm).

Lunch usually something light like a toasted cheese sandwich or some mashed veg, chickpea and sweet potato mix. With a fruit and/or cucumber on the side.

Dinner a bit more - tonight she had a chicken pasta with broccoli, parsnip and spinach on the side (didn’t eat much spinach) and some grated cucumber left over from lunch. Strawberry slices for dessert. She ate loads of this, she’s really practising her pincer grip atm.

She’s had crap sleep since before weaning though.

Tofu is a good shout, I’ll add it to my list. I’m always looking for new food ideas.

I just thought I’d give an update.

Firstly thanks again to everyone who posted.

I’ve stopped breastfeeding now. Dropped all but one feed just before her first birthday, and stopped the last one just after. Then dropped final bedtime feed at about 13months.

When I began dropping night feeds, husband and I split settling at night. He now does before midnight and from 4:30am - 7/7:30. I do midnight to 4:30 and take over when she wakes for the day.

For anyone in the same position I was - she still wakes multiple times, resulting in co sleep from about 1am, sometimes earlier if we’ve had a cluster of wakes pre midnight. Stopping bfing did not change that.

What also didn’t help

: Set wake, nap and bedtimes. Having set times did not signal to her that it was time to sleep. So I’ve stuck with a 30m variation on wake up time 7-7:30) and followed wake windows for naps and bedtime. She’s now dropping to one nap so no naps after 4pm and I’ve pushed the start time for her now only nap to around 12:30. This is so bedtime isn’t too late.

But I wanted to be really clear that having a set schedule made no difference for us. So if you’re not doing this, and you have a baby that wakes a lot, you’re not doing anything wrong.

: Feeding more in the day. She now has snacks in the day too (replacing milk feeds) and is definitely not hungry at night.

: Foam mattress. Hers was pocket sprung. We’ve got a tempur in our bed and she sleeps well there so I just thought give a foam mattress a try. Didn’t work.

: Less day sleep. I thought I’d seen a pattern where when she had 1h40m of day sleep, she did a longer stretch. But it was a just a fluke and setting the same conditions again didn’t result in a longer stretch again.

: Moving her to her own room. There is a bed in there but she starts the night on her own. She wakes about 3/4 times before midnight when we aren’t there. From midnight if she wakes after that I’ll go in and sleep there and try to soothe her in the cot before a full wake. Doesn’t always work. But the point is she still wakes when left alone to sleep.

So she still wakes. BUT I now get more sleep due to us splitting the nights. Also, co sleeping is easier now as she does not root for milk. So she’s sleeps a bit away from me and I’m not woken up as much.

So in this way, I now get more sleep which is what I wanted.

Next thing to tackle is getting her to do longer stretches in the cot. Because her one nap will get longer and longer and I can’t contact nap her every day for 2 hours. Got things to do!

Ahhhh…thanks for the update, OP! Glad you’re finally getting a bit more sleep - hope you’re feeling a bit more human now.

How do you get her to sleep at bedtime OP? I posted on your thread before that we were in the same situation in terms of frequency of wakes (we were cosleeping, nipple in mouth all night). We did sleep train at about 8.5 months which meant he did longer stretches in cot but started waking up and staying awake for ages at night, and/or waking every two hours, and starting the day at 5.30… So sleep training not a silver bullet but it did mean we got evenings back and he falls asleep by himself at first which is a relief. Still feeds anywhere between once and five times a night. I’m in the same place in terms of trying stuff that makes no difference - ‘maybe he’s cold!’ Etc.

@LelongducanalI feel your pain. The short answer is she gets walked to sleep now and we try to put her in the cot when she is not in deep sleep, but she does have to be asleep and not simply drowsy. Drowsy but awake never worked for her.

At the time of my first post I was actively trying to separate feeding from fall asleep, and by December, I’d had some success of her falling asleep independently in the cot. But the process did not get any faster and I did not see any benefits downstream in the night in terms of the number of wakes, in fact there were a couple of nights where she had been helped to sleep either by feeding or walking, and had done four our stretches and I think once a seven hour stretch. So we concluded that she can link cycles and decided not to spend 20 to 40 minutes each night on independent fall asleep and reverted to walking (not feeding) when needed.

Following the room move things have reset quite a bit to be honest, and she has not been able to fall asleep in the cot independently since. So she has been walked. It’s gotten harder since she started dropping her second nap.

I will not lie, bedtimes are a nightmare and I have had tears (mine). Today for her nap there were tears again (both of us). It’s really hard to get her to sleep and then really hard that when she is asleep, she just wakes up. Very disheartening.

I’d love to be able to put her in the cot and she falls asleep herself, for just the initial fall asleep. I’ve got training plans from friends which has worked for them but I’m reluctant to try them that standard advice just hasn’t worked for us so far.

Sorry bedtimes are so tough, I know it well. Tbh I think you don’t need a training plan, ppl just like them because it helps when you’re letting them cry for a bit and worried to have external back up. It’s not rocket science you just have to accept that there will be some upset, it helped me to think of it as part of separating as he gets older and learning to do some things for himself, and I also felt it was better to have a calm mum comforting him than a stressed and snappy one dealing with endless wakes and false starts and pretending to be cool with feeding him yet again when I wasn’t…. You can work out a plan that you feel ok with and can stick to. We started by putting him down and one of us sat with him and patted/shushed - he did cry but not loads and someone was with him. Then after that had worked a few times we started just putting him down and coming back every 5 then 10 mins. It’s never been more than 40 mins for him to fall asleep but obviously they do need to be good and tired. I did also set some limits like if he’s still crying after x time then I’ll pat him to sleep or whatever works. I’m sure you know all this! I spent ages on sleep forums at the time but trying to wean myself off now 😂

You’re right about the plans @Lelongducanal it is just so you feel you’re following a guide rather than winging it.

I wish patting worked with this little miss, but it just doesn’t. If I put her in awake she’s constantly standing in the cot and won’t just lie down. If I put her in when she’s drowsy in arms, she gets too alerted and cries immediately. Patting just doesn’t settle her, I think it annoys her. It’s so hard. This is why I end up just contact napping because I don’t want to risk full wakes on transfer and then lose the nap and have overtiredness at bedtime.

What was your LO like in the cot when you began the training, was he able to tolerate being in it at all? Was he able to lay still in it?

If I had an ‘All you can eat buffet’ next to me I would wake up and snack through the night. Why not move her to her own room?