Baby feeds hourly at night

[Inneedofsupport]

I’m absolutely broken and I can’t do it anymore. Husband and baby are asleep next to me. I’m on my 4th wake up already and it’s not 3am yet when the torture really starts.

I think my 9mo is reverse cycling. She is waking every 1-2hr and feeds. I have tried not giving her the boob but she moans and cries until she gets it. She is in a side car cot next to me. In her earlier months I ended up co sleeping because I needed more sleep. Whenever I lifted her out of the next to me and fed her and tried to put her back in, she’d wake and I’d end up holding her. So I decided to co sleep so I’d get more sleep. Health visitor told me to learn how to feed lying down and continue ‘feeding responsively’ Then I got this cot inside car’d. And so here we are. Health visitors aren’t here in the night are they…

I’ve been trying gentle sleep training as I thought she wasn’t ‘linking cycles’. In quotes as I’m not even sure it’s a thing anymore. She now doesn’t fall asleep with boob and I have to walk her. But in the night she feeds and goes back to sleep. But I can’t.

In the day there is not set times for feeds. I logged feed after feed after feed and never ever saw a pattern. She now just feeds about 4 times in total daytime. 3 solids meals daily. Porridge/eggs. Lunch maybe a cheese sandwich bites and banana, dinner tonight was beef and rice and she ate loads.

Sorry I’m rambling. I don’t know how to fix it. I want her to sleep in the cot and feed properly in the day time. Like all my other mum friends do. I don’t want to ‘give in’ and get a floor bed.

People keep asking me if she’s sleeping through the night. If I’m enjoying motherhood. No and no. My mum keeps saying she thinks I look a bit tired. Husband says he’ll help with night settling but he doesn’t even hear her wake up. I tell him I do this feeding like this so everyone gets more sleep. Don’t think he really appreciates what it means for me and what would his night would look like if just got up and went in the other room and locked the door.

Sorry for the ramble. Thanks for reading if you got this far.

She's very unlikely to actually need food during the night at that age - I night weaned whilst still exclusively BF at 4 months and i was not a good BF'er (took about an hour plus for each feed during the day). You absolutely need to find a way to feed less at night as this is going to be based on them getting used to waking... maybe offer them a sip of water or have your husband go and settle them in another room. When night weaning at 4 months I "stretched the feeds (first one and then the next one) by resettling them instead of feeding them. Sounds super hard but also definitely ignore the "this is what your baby needs" so you need to suck it up no matter the cost - your baby needs a mentally healthy mother much more than the very minor benefits of breastfeeding at all at this age.

This sounds utterly exhausting. Sorry if this has already been suggested, but could you try daytime feeds in a dark boring room to reduce distractions? Mine also slept best if he'd had porridge and a bit of mashed banana at bedtime - oats are a soporific and release energy slowly, and bananas are high in tryptophan.

I’m going to give it a go @Christmaseree

Also a really good point on addressing PND with meds before any future pregnancy.

@CatsKoalasBunnies123 tonight I’ve left DH to settle her for bed and deal with any wakes until I decide to go up. She’s woken once so far and he’s resettled. You’re right that I just need to let him get on and do it. I need to let go a bit.

Please prioritise your needs here! The marginal benefits of breastfeeding (which are heavily weighted to the early months) don't outweigh the importance of you being in a good place mentally - which will make you a much better, bonded mother. I have two super healthy kids and dropped breastfeeding just after night weaning both times i.e. at about 4 months. I also sleep trained my kids (one needed it more than the other). My kids and I are doing great with it all - so don't be afraid to put your own oxygen on first!!!

Not yet suggested @spiderlight thank you for these tips. I am looking for anything to help increase/improve the day feeds. Will try a dark room. I guess she’s used to feeding in the dark.

On the porridge and banana before bed - would this be dinner? Or after dinner as a beditme snack?

OP my 14 month old still wakes in the night for milk. She has spells of it being hourly (when she’s ill or teething) but always 3-4 times a night minimum. Worst thing is when she wants a 2 hour party at 2am for no reason.

Some babies are just like this I think. You’re not doing anything wrong by responding to your baby. The sleep deprivation is awful though.

We’re both back at work and we take it in turns cosleeping because we won’t aggressively sleep train. We’ve done low key sleep training - seeing if she’ll settle herself, offering dummy/water/patting back to sleep when she’s won’t - but it doesn’t make a difference. We’ve tried amending day sleep. We’ve tried everything.

We’re just going to wait until she can talk and then explain that she needs to go back to bed until X time. We are only having one child!

I should add I stopped BF and expressing at 10 months (she had refused the boob by then anyway - never drank warm milk again after tonsillitis!) Being able to split night duties between me and DP is the saviour. When I was BF hourly overnight I thought I was going to lose it.

At 9 months 3 full meals and 4 proper feeds is plenty for during the day if she is feeding properly (that's what I did at that age for both mine but with bottles and zero night feeding). I also think if you manage to feed her less at night by having your husband settle her she will naturally take more during the day and over time her habits will change. For more specific advice it can be helpful to use something like chat GPT and ask it to reply as if it were a sleep consultant.... it just summarises internet information in the context of your specific questions but easier to have a back and forward with that gets quite specific.

I can't quite recall the timings now (DS is now 18 and 6 ft 1!) but I think I used to give him the porridge and banana as supper, shortly before bed - he would never settle until about 9 so it was as well as dinner. I used fine Ready-Brek type oats.

@shatg That’s frustrating. Does that mean he’s likely to be asthmatic? I’ve never heard of “happy wheezer”. Can you afford a private doctor? One appointment with a GP or a private paediatrician/respiratory physician might give you direction and clarification about the wheezing and sleep.

@Inneedofsupport Your DD sounds like she’s doing great with her eating! My DD was a reluctant and fussy eater. I’d be cautious that she might be having too much water during the day and that might be why she’s not taking much breastmilk and instead making up for it at night. Would you consider offering her formula instead of water? That would increase her daytime milk intake. It’s great that you had DH do the settling so far tonight. It’s a big step for you. The fact that she’s resettled without boob is great. Banana and oats would be after dinner and shortly before bed. Make sure you clean her teeth.

The Pantley pull off is a tried and tested way to break the suck to sleep association, especially for breastfeeding. It’s by Elizabeth Pantley. Here’s a good description of it:
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2010/04/change-your-babys-sleep-association-for.html?m=1

Thanks @FeralWoman
I will check out the book. On the water I don’t think it’s too much but it’s another thing to consider. I fill her beaker halfway and I throw almost the very same amount out after her meal.

She doesn’t get water between meals, only milk. When I say she has a decent amount it’s more that she is actually enthusiastic to drink and there aren’t issues with her drinking from the beaker (I was worried there might be after her general feeding difficulties). It is still only a few sips. She’s also had this sort of sleep pattern since 5m whereas we weaned and started giving water (with meals) at 7m.

But it’s something to consider for sure. She may have gotten used to having a drink in the day and holds off on taking more milk. It hard for me to truly gauge her milk intake as I never saw a pattern and her feeds were always so short. It’s why I could never rule out hunger in the night. Now she’s on three meals I think I can, hence why I’ve posted now cos I think it’s not right. I was really hoping that once she stated solids, sleep would improve a bit :(

Just had a read of that method @FeralWoman

So she doesn’t actually fall asleep on the boob. She will suck and then pull off and roll away and snooze off (I feed lying down).

So I’m not sure at which point I’d unlatch. if I’m in the chair, then she will pull off and sit up and cry - I think because she wants to roll off and sleep. I believe she is used to side lie feed. If I do find her falling asleep at the boob I’ll try it though.

Mine is thankfully only every 2 hours at 8 months. I feed him, then if he's not settling easily, I kick DH out of bed to change a nappy of rock him. Yes, I feel mean waking him up, but it keeps me sane. You can do the same, at least at weekends. We're both working which makes the balance easier. Day care and daddy days aren't any better, even though I know he gets several full bottles of pumped milk so it's not that he's hungry. He won't settle with a full nappy, which can be a vicious circle of feeding to settle so peeing more. What has helped is some gentle cot training in the evening, so he knows he can go to sleep lying down with us there, rather than being held. It only works on good days though. A cold or teeth and he's back to every hour. Might also be worth keeping a bit of a food diary. Mine likes baked beans, but unsurprisingly he ends up a bit uncomfortable in the evening afterwards!

@Inneedofsupport you definitely sound a bit more balanced today, so hopefully some of the advice you’ve got has given you some ideas to work with, and a bit more confidence in your own mothering skills.

Please, please reconsider getting medicated. One of my biggest regrets is that I didn’t, and my firstborn’s early months passed in a horrible blur. Your baby needs a happy mummy so much more than she needs breast milk.

Your husband, quite frankly, is an arse. It’s not up to him to decide whether you have PND when you’ve obviously been diagnosed by professionals. I would be seriously considering whether you want to have another baby with him to be honest, especially as you could end up with PND again.

I wish you lived next door to me as I’d come round and give you a hug and take the baby while you got some sleep!

Thanks @FlatWhiteExtraHot I would absolutely take you up on that.

Husband took baby for an hour this morning before work and I got an hour of sleep. It’s the same as I get in the night in terms of a stretch but the quality of sleep was better as I knew she was in his care and I wouldn’t get woken up.

Yesterday I felt I was dumping all my fears out in my sleep deprived state. Husband, in his own clumsy way, I think was trying to make me feel better by saying I don’t have something wrong with me, and that I’m ok and doing great.

Sometimes I myself question if I have it too or if I am just sleep deprived (a pp alluded to this being the case for her as well). I think husband was reflecting those thoughts of my own back at me too. He’s not ignorant of how hard things are for me. He has offered to give bottles, have me sleep in the spare room etc. It’s me that needs to let go.

Interestingly, my HV also advised me not to go down the meds path as I could become dependant. So I’ve not really been that clear on what to do.

But yes I will reconsider and husband will support me if I choose to go down the medicated path. He’ll just go with whatever I want at the end of the day. Like I said, it’s me that needs to let go a bit.

I am going to monitor her water intake more closely at meals. And also keep a food diary. These are really good ideas. Also a good point someone made earlier that if husband resettles then she gets less milk and this might boost day feeds. And I do think we might introduce formula from a sippy cup at night and possibly with meals too.

Part of me feels that it’s sad to end bfing if that’s the way it’s going. I worked really hard to establish it. After not being able to conceive naturally, and having a c section, I just wanted my body to do something natural, that it was designed to do. I felt I’ve put up with periods and shitty hormones for long enough, I wanted it all to actually work now! Of course in my addled state I forget to acknowledge that my body did actually grow the baby. Anyway it’ll be sad for me to end it all. But I’ll need to, to try that last embryo we’ve got.

My ds was very similar so hopefully this gives you some hope. He woke hourly from birth. Ebf and I would always need to feed to sleep. At 6 months I stopped feeding to sleep to put to bed. We changed the bedtime routine to feed, bath, story, bed so he would go into his cot awake. Amazingly only took a few nights and he'd go to sleep with no fuss. It made absolutely no difference to frequency of waking, but it was nice that dh could put him to bed and good to know he could sleep without being fed. He gradually started going longer. He was also well established on solids so I knew he wasn't hungry, I started night weaning around 8 months gradually I.e. no feed before midnight - it took longer to get him back to sleep but over time it meant he went longer and then didn't wake up before then. I can't remember the exact timeline as he is 7 now! I also introduced a comforter around 8-9 months then out of no where he slept through the night! It was always a bit sporadic but even just getting a few good nights sleep a week made a huge difference. Also meant dh could do some nights. I'd fully night weaned by 9 months, unless he was unwell. I carried on bf until he was 18 months. I didn't ever introduce a bottle as I don't think hunger was the issue so felt that wouldn't really break the habit, but I did offer water from a beaker when he woke in the night. From the age of 4 I'd say he actually slept better than most people I knew - I actually had to wake him up in the mornings! I know that feels a long way off atm, but I remember thinking how things had changed when my friends were struggling with their kids waking up at 5am and these were babies that slept well. My first slept through from 3 months, also ebf. I think it's just pot luck!

I mean this respectfully, but there is a lot of misinformation about breastfeeding - the UK has one of the worst rates in the world past 6 weeks. I find people blame bf for most sleeping issues and it's also often stated that there is only minimal benefit, which is not true. Of course the most important thing is your wellbeing so if you want to stop bf then you absolutely should, but I wouldn't stop based on sleep alone if you want to continue and enjoy the bond it gives you. You can have both sleep and breastfeed - and there can be a middle ground which may be doing some night weaning.

I currently have an 8 month old who is also not a good sleeper- although not as bad as ds thankfully. Recently I slept downstairs and dh did a night - he bought baby to me when she needed to feed, it meant I was still woken but only a couple of times and I could go straight back to sleep without worrying if she would settle etc. She also woke far less than normal so I wonder if moving to her own room would help.

It sounds like you are doing an amazing job, and I promise you will sleep again. I also agree getting out in the day and socialising is important!

@Inneedofsupport Dependent on antidepressants? Rubbish. They’re not going to prescribe addictive muscle relaxants or sedatives like Valium. Antidepressants do require gradually increasing the dose to the target dose, and gradual weaning down if you need to stop taking them. That’s to minimise side effects, and to avoid serotonin syndrome which is caused by suddenly stopping antidepressants. Some of us need the medication to function and stay alive. I don’t call that being dependent. I call that being on essential medication. Honestly the sort of people who call antidepressants addictive or dependent are the sort of people who have no fucking idea what clinical depression or anxiety are like.

If you’re enjoying breastfeeding, you don’t need to give up completely. You can still feed her before bed or first thing in the morning if you want to. The aim is to stop baby using you as a dummy and encourage her to sleep, not necessarily cut her off completely if you’re not ready for that yet.

You were offered Sertraline because it’s safe* for breastfeeding mothers, so you can actually take it and still feed.

*Safe in as much as minute amounts cross into breast milk, but obviously no one is going to run a drug trial on newborns. The risk benefit analysis shows that the dangers of PND far outweigh any chance of side effects to the baby.

Oh OP, I used to have a breastfed baby like this and it utterly broke me. You sound like such a lovely mum xx

@Threelittlebirds1 Thanks for your post that is indeed reassuring. As of yesterday I changed the before routine to bath, feed, story, hand to husband. Before that it was bath, story, feed, I settle to sleep in cot.

I have tried to put her in the cot awake a few times now for the last three weeks. Only twice she settled to sleep independently.

On every occasion there is a looooot of sitting up, rolling, babbling, a bit of crying, some smiling. She is going in drowsy. She just seems to ping awake once in. Did your son do this too? Did he settle more quickly each time? I just felt if I were seeing some progress with her falling asleep on her own and possibly leading to less wakes, I might feel a bit more positive.

Thank you so much @LondonLady1980 I’m really trying my best, as we all do. It might well be my only go at this.

I had to go down the sleep training route in the end as I hit breaking point. Sleep deprivation is so, so difficult, especially when there are other external factors that are influencing your overall physical and mental health. I could mentally cope with the 2 hourly wake-ups for the first few months as it was expected, but when my baby was 6,7,8,9 months old and he was still waking every 1-2 hours through the night I just couldn't cope. I was in a very dark place.

Hello OP, I’m in a similar position to you, though my baby is 6 months - awake every hour to feed and I’m only functional because we cosleep and he has the nipple in his mouth half the night but it’s driving me a bit mad and I’m desperate for a bit more space and some time with my husband. Like others have said, I doubt it’s hunger, more sleep association/habit. My first was a bit like this, not quite as bad, and I have dim memories of it starting to improve slowly towards the end of first year. I’m not sure I can wait that long this time so like you trying to work out what I can do - thinking own room and try to get him to settle a few times a night for dad, or possibly experiment with sleep training to see if he can drop off by himself in the cot but it feels impossible from where we are. It’s such a conflict because I sort of love holding and feeding and snuggling him but equally I need more sleep and am short tempered with my other child which isn’t fair. Dunno 🤷‍♀️

@Lelongducanal Sorry you’re in the same situation. I totally get the conflicting feeling - I am the same. I love being close to her and it’s help us bond. But I also can’t have my nipple in her mouth half the night and would like some of my time back! As this is your second you probably know way more than me.

I would say I wish I had tackled helping her to self settle earlier. I just didn’t know anything about it, I thought babies were meant to be rocked or fed or somehow always helped to sleep. It’s only since I’ve got to know other mums that I realise it doesn’t have to be that way.

Tonight for the first time I’m in the spare room and me and husband will do shifts. Let’s see how it’s goes. I’ve said I’d do 12-6, might need to tweak that as I’d like some evening back to watch, tv whereas I meant to be asleep now.

Don’t worry about the self soothing thing - I knew all about it and had the best of intentions this time around to encourage him to sleep independently and it made no difference at all 😂 I think some babies just take to this much easier than others, also some ppl work so hard on this with little babies then it all goes to sh!t when they hit the 4 month regression anyway. And some ppl feed to sleep and their babies sleep for ages. Suffice to say, neither of us is doing anything ‘wrong’ and if it worked for you as well as baby it would be fine to carry on, but if it doesn’t it’s fine also to make changes. This is what I’m telling myself anyway! Bravo for setting up the shifts, I think you’re right that letting go a bit is important and helps baby get used to the idea that they can sleep without boob. I need to do the same. Good luck to both of us tonight!