Is anyone else not sleep training?

[HuntGather]

I have an 8mo who is a terrible sleeper and has been for many months - the most I get is a 2 hour stretch, and that’s with cosleeping. I'm not keen to sleep train but I seem to very much be in the minority with this and people are always telling me to do it. I've had my moments where I've considered it but it really doesn't feel good to me.

Is anyone else in a similar boat?

If they were reliably sleeping through for over 3 months how/ why did you sleep train?

The reality is sleep training is not a one and done. Ultimately if milestones or teething were going to disrupt sleep then they still will ‘sleep trained’ or not.

This is true. Of course my child still wakes in the night when unwell or if he has a bad dream on occasion. The difference I notice between him and children we know who weren't sleep trained is that he settles back down very quickly. I also see a lot of friends with children who didn't sleep train now dealing with split nights.

The aim of sleep training isn't to just get them to sleep through. It's part of teaching overall sleep hygiene and strong routines so that they can cope better with different disturbances to their sleep.

My son is only 3. Of course we sometimes have nights of severe illness where sleep is totally out the window and he needs a lot of comfort. It's always up and down with kids. But 99% of the time he sleeps beautifully.

Parents need sleep (as do babies) - they have jobs to go to - DH is a doctor - do you want him treating you when he’s been up repeatedly during the night with our DT’s?

We wanted the consistency of good sleep and with twins it’s difficult. We moved them to separate rooms so they didn’t disturb each other and went into comfort them if they cried - they always knew they would be loved and cared for. Gradually we waited a little while to go into them and they learnt to self settle without getting distressed

I actually don’t think you’re in the minority. I do think it’s the minority who sleep train and certainly sleep train with aggressive methods.

Leaving my child to cry would never be for me. First DC slept through by 10/nearly 11 months. She’s three and gets tucked in and said night night to awake in her bed, close the door and goes to sleep no bother. It’s been like this for at least a year and a half.

Second DC is 9 months now and is all over the place. He might sleep through for a week then have 2 disrupted weeks but 9 months is still so young. He’s had 6 teeth come through in 3 weeks. I think most babies are all over the place at this age based on all the antenatal groups I’ve been in.

It’s more than possible for your DC to sleep through and go down easily with out sleep training.

But if they reliably slept through from 8 I don’t see how you could even sleep train?
Unless they didn’t actually reliably sleep through, since they did wake and cry and you controlled how and when do go in they obviously didn’t in fact sleep through reliably.

Their sleep wasn’t reliable enough so we did the sleep training in time for my going back to work. We used a sleep consultant.

I never did, but I guess we "sleep trained" when they were older and we wanted them to go to sleep independently and stay in own bed at night- we used reward charts

Yeah that makes sense but doesn't really sound like sleep training. Night weaning at 18 months is completely different! For one they aren't a baby and you aren't training him in any way? Just putting some boundaries in about breast feeding and offering him an alternative in a gentle way. I'm not against saying no and never letting your toddler cry for any reason. Boundaries are so important. But it's when babies are 6 months old and it's appropriate and essential for them to wake for feeds and people just think they can train them so they don't have to respond to them?

I do agree about parents being the main care giver and would personality never put my son in nursery full time. I decided to work part time and I'm with my child 5 days a week. The other two he has 2 mornings at nursery and then with family. But I'm saying you can't compare that to sleep training because some people have no choice but to work full time or maybe it suits them better and they find being at home much harder.

Weird, why claim they reliably slept through from 8 weeks then when they didn’t?

”DT’s were formula fed and reliably sleeping through at eight weeks”

As I posted - they weren’t sleeping through reliably enough for us to cope with me going back to work particularly as I would be overseas occasionally and DH working an odd night. Twins are no joke at night when you’re on your own and up at 6.30 for getting ready for nursery and work

Hey 👋

My DD is 3.5 now but I have never sleep trained because I don't agree with it. She woke very very frequently, we managed it by co-sleeping and continuing to breastfeed

One of my favourite podcasts is Little Nest Sleep Like a Baby? Where the host talks about normal infant sleep, you're not alone.

@Elisabeth3468

Yeah that makes sense but doesn't really sound like sleep training. Night weaning at 18 months is completely different! For one they aren't a baby and you aren't training him in any way? Just putting some boundaries in about breast feeding and offering him an alternative in a gentle way.

This is an arbitrary definition of your own creation. Why doesn't it sound like sleep training? He was waking every two hours or more and had to be trained out of it. It took more than stopping breastfeeding at night. He had to be trained to self-soothe.

I do not understand why so many people have decided on Mumsnet that sleep training equals cry it out.

Sleep training is teaching a child to stop waking through the night. It doesn't matter how you go about it or at what age, that's all it is.

The question was how could I possible have sleep trained my child gently. I outlined how I did. Thousands of parents across the country sleep train their children gently without leaving them to cry.

I'm not keen to sleep train as I don't agree with leaving a baby to cry deliberately for any amount of time and withholding comfort from them. I feel a lot of the sleep training push is linked to capitalism and people having to go back to work early - in the US with its lack of paid maternity leave, it's done as a matter of course.

I do understand why people do it if they're at breaking point or close to it. I've been there myself, so I understand that. But I don't believe I need to teach my 8mo to sleep by letting them cry just because it's a 'skill' they need to learn.

And yes, I'm aware that sleep training doesn't always involve controlled crying, but I've done a lot of research into it and nearly all the methods involve it even if it's called something else like 'spaced soothing'. I know there are other methods like picking up and putting down for example and I see those on a continuum (albeit far less harsh) with controlled crying. I would consider a method that doesn't involve any controlled crying but that's not really sleep training, more like trying to gently shift habits. I also think it's a bit different when you can explain things to them, whereas my 8mo would be so confused and distressed if I simply withheld comfort from her.

I'm not keen to sleep train as I don't agree with leaving a baby to cry deliberately for any amount of time and withholding comfort from them.

You do not need to do either of these things to effectively sleep train. I've never withheld comfort from my son in his life.

At 8 months old, I'd say "never say never" about most aspects of parenting. You've a long road ahead yet.

I don't think you're in the minority. I think sleep training is a some what 'old school' style of parenting these days. I never sleep trained and both of my DCs sleep through.

I have 3 and I never sleep trained any of them. It’s hard and everyone tells you to just put them in their cot and let them cry but I just couldn’t. I would feel so guilty that they were in pain or scared etc. They get there in their own time anyway, my eldest was the worst sleeper as a baby but she’s 5 now and has been sleeping 12 hours through at night since about 2. Around 8 months was hard with my youngest, I think there’s a sleep regression at that age. She’s 14 months now and sleeping a lot better wakes maybe 2 times a night but easily resettles again with a quick feed.

Neither of ours have been sleep trained, the 5 year old gets a bedtime story and snuggles in "the big bed" then moved to his own bed when we go to bed and tends to stay there unless he has a bad dream or just wakes in the night.
8 month old still cosleeps, but that's because we've still not got his room sorted. He will sleep up with his older brother from about 8pm until I go up to bed about half 10/11 (moving his brother seems to stir him) will have a comfort feed and go back to sleep until 4am, feeds and goes back to sleep until around 7ish when I wake him for school run/work.

I think routine is more important than sleep training. Older ds is perfectly capable of going to sleep in his own bed and will choose to on occasion, but it's a nice end to the day, getting all snuggley with a book and talking about our days. He won't want to do it forever, so both dh and I are embracing it.

I was in a one bedroom flat with my first so it wasn't an option. I couldn't have left him to cry anyway. He co slept with me until my 2nd baby was born and then I moved him into his own room at age 2ish. Single bed with bed guard, cuddle to sleep, I creep out the room. 3.5 now and he never wakes in the night.
Baby 2 is 10 months now and we co sleep I feed him back to sleep if he wakes up. He gets pretty indignant if my boob is not in his mouth. Patting on the back wouldn't cut it hahaha. I didn't wean off boob at night with older son until he was over 1 and really understood the concept of "all gone" as I used to tell him boob was all gone to transition over from feeding to sleep to cuddling to sleep.
Round 8 months is a really bad time for separation anxiety and teething they do wake alot then. Gets a lot better after they turn 1.
I just accept the broken sleep tbh I get stretches of a few hours at a time. Because I've been through it with my eldest I can see the end rather than it feeling like it will go on forever. If i have a really bad night I just try and have a nap some point next day if I can and I also try to go to bed early to maximise my sleep opportunities.

I say all this and here I am posting on mn at this time instead of getting back to sleep!

I didn't sleep train, just tried to follow ds lead and cues and he just gradually got into his own wee routine at about 9 months.

Generally, mumsnet is against sleep training. Though sleep training is often assumed to be leaving baby to cry which doesn't have to be the case.

I've always been very routine led and used the pick up/put down method to encourage self soothing. Mine have slept through since 8 weeks, 6 weeks & 6 weeks.

Sleep hygiene and gentle "training" methods such as going in and out just didn't work for us. Hell, even being consistently with our children and cosleeping with them didn't work for us. One of my children once memorably woke in the night and remained awake for several hours until 5am at which point in sheer desperation I took them for a drive and they still didn't fall asleep. We tried everything except cry it out, and they all slept dreadfully until about age 3 / when they fully dropped their naps, and it just sort of sorted itself out.

We were never comfortable with cry-it-out and the risks. That said, I do think we had a really unpleasant experience and weren't anywhere near the best parents we could be at times because of the sleep deprivation. And also I wonder about the impact of the appalling broken sleep on our kids as well! So I can understand other parents making a different decision. Solidarity to the other parents with dreadful sleepers. And solidarity to parents getting advice that isn't helpful and just makes them feel like sh*t!

I didn't sleep train. I co-slept with my babies, it was what felt natural and right for me and they slept really well. Much easier for night time breastfeeding too. My youngest slept with me until about 3 and a half and then went into his own bed just fine. Mine have all been good sleepers.