11 year (yes, YEAR!!) old not sleeping in own bed

[Baxterbaxter]

My just-turned 11 year old cannot sleep in his own bed, by himself, through the night.

It started when he was a baby; he had awful asthma / bad croup and would stop breathing, so I would keep him with me in case of an episode. This happened a few times; each time we rushed him to hospital as he just couldn’t breathe.

He eventually grew out of this but he could only go to sleep if we lay down with him. Guaranteed, he would wake during the night and come into my bed.

Skip forward a few years, and this is EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. He has just gone into year 6 and he refused to go on the residential as he cannot sleep alone.

DH and I are at breaking point, so we have decided he has got to learn to put himself down. We have a 9 year old DD who is a great sleeper - she can put herself to sleep and stays asleep for 12 hours - no issues at all.

Tonight is the second night where we have put DS to sleep; DH laid with him the first night in his own bed, the lamp was on and he has calming music playing. DS was in our room for 3 hours throughout this night, saying he couldn’t sleep. Each time we put him back to bed. Eventually, he went into DD’s bed to sleep. DH and I work full time so we were shattered yesterday, as was DD as DS just moves around constantly (we didn’t realise he went into DD’s room, I found him there in the morning). Tonight is going in the same vein; I lay with him initially and then, bang on midnight, DS is in our room, saying he can’t sleep / can’t close his eyes. He tried to go back into DD’s bed but I got him back out, I must’ve put him back in his own bed at least 15 times over the last 3 hours. My poor DH is driving 6+ hours for work tomo, so I’m trying to let him sleep. He is still up now, walking around, saying he can’t sleep.

What do I do?! I know we have made a rod for our own backs by letting DS come into our bed all these years, even though it was with the best intentions initially as we were concerned about his health.

Do we just ignore him when he gets up, persevere with putting him straight back to sleep? I’m so tired. It’s like having a newborn again.

So he falls asleep with one of you with him. Then wakes up and seeks you out?
I would focus on the initial falling asleep alone .
He needs to get used to it as less scary at bedtime being alone then at say 2am.
Plus you will have more patience/energy at that time. Then at 2am repeatedly taking him back to his room.
Hopefully once he learns to fall asleep alone he won't find it so hard when he wakes up.

I'm picking up loads of baby / toddler language in the way you speak about your DS. 'Self sooth' 'putting him down.' You're not picking him up and putting him down in bed like a small child. I'd start by using language like 'getting ready for bed' as he might like the babyish talk.

He's 11 years old. He absolutely should not be in his sisters bed. I know you said you'll put a stop to this, but it's absolutely not appropriate. Him stroking backs, hands, ears, holding hands etc is also not appropriate at all. He's an 11 year old boy, he's examples perfect sleep when there's been a case of nits. For 5 nights! So that's not PTSD, anxiety etc. otherwise he wouldn't have been able to cope during the nits. He's old enough to now start to manipulate and to me that sounds like what he's doing. Have a frank conversation with him. Firm boundaries. He is not to go into his sisters room as it's unacceptable. Likewise your bed. Explain you and DH are adults and deserve some privacy. Everyone in the house is now of age where privacy is important, and every single person in the house is having their privacy taken away due to an 11 year old boys preferences to 'self sooth.' Don't shame him, but have a frank open conversation that this doesn't happen again, and ask him what he needs from you and DH to make this transition easier.

I think you probably need professional intervention as his stress and anxiety is causing him severe issues. Have you tried to get a referral? If you can afford it, I would suggest going private as NHS waiting list for young people mental health issues is horrific.

I struggled to sleep alone as a child/teen and I do have ADHD. I was terrified and struggled to fall asleep. My DS with Autism and ADHD struggles to sleep alone too. I do love to sleep on my own now as an adult but there was never a time in my teens where I stopped being scared, I think I just got to a point of going to bed so late that I dropped off easier. But things I remember that did help were moving my sister to sleep in the same room and having a hot water bottle. Weighted blankets help my DS and burning lavendar oil in his room before bed time. We are starting a sleep course soon as our youngest doesn't sleep at all so may be worth checking out if your LA has anything like that. DDs consultant referred us so you could ask your consultant but I know you can also self refer here.

I’m not sure the cat would understand the rules here.

Could he have a series of sleepovers with friends coming over, he will probably be too embarrassed and not come into your room, he will have some company and might help break the cycle

Sorry just thought to add, some of my friends growing up liked to fall asleep with the TV on. I know it is not ideal but if he has racing thoughts adding a TV to his room could help. Sometimes with ND DC we have to do things sometimes frowned upon if it works for our family.

I was waiting to see you confirm he is ND. This is so common with ND children and finishing some of the suggestions on here from people with NT children is going to traumatise your son.

I recommend this group https://www.facebook.com/groups/207951976411320/?ref=share_group_link where you'll get her and support from people who understand neurodivergence.

My DS is 10 and we use melatonin gummies but we still sit with him until he gets to sleep and he often comes into our bed. He needs to be physically touching us most of the time, awake or asleep, and that's just a sensory need he has (he's ADHD awaiting assessment).

Denying the need causes issues but you need to find a way to meet them which works for everyone.

I’ll give him clear boundaries and expectations

You are at an age when this is more than appropriate. He’s a big boy and well capable of understanding that keeping 2 working (driving!) adults awake for hours in the middle of the night is utterly unacceptable. Not being fast asleep for every second he is in his room is fine - waking up everyone else is not. I wouldn’t “confine him to barracks” but absolutely no going in his sisters room, no talking, no getting in your bed. I would allow him to come into your room for reassurance, but not wake you up or touch you or loom in the doorway until his stares wake you - just to reassure himself for a few seconds that you are there and all is fine. He’s allowed to go to the bathroom, have a drink or snack, stroke the dog, read, listen to music or an audiobook (quietly!). It’s fine to wake up for a period at night and go back to sleep again - it’s not fine to wake the whole household up. His problem seems to be “self settling” - like a baby of a few months - so when he naturally comes out of a deep sleep in a normal sleep cycle then instead of drifting back to sleep like anyone over about 6 months of age, he’s doing a big boy version of screaming the house down. You don’t have to announce to everyone that you have woken up when you are 11 though, you either go back to sleep, or you read, or you just lie there until morning.
He understood the “boundaries and expectations” when he had nits - he wasn’t traumatised or anxious or needing to stroke other people then - he might have wanted to but he was able to “self sooth”. Has it actually been pointed out to him that you and DH are knackered, and are entitled to sleep (and privacy)? It may not have occurred to him how much of a pita it is because you are being quite lovely and tolerant and talking about him like he’s under a year old, but you know he can prioritise you when it’s a more obvious, tangible thing (nits).

No idea why my post has been hidden! I was sharing a useful Facebook group and explaining how we manage this with our son.

You honestly haven’t made a rod for your own backs. Secure attachment theory, still the most relevant research and studies we have on how to prevent child/adult mental health issues, say that ideally we allow a child to decide when co-sleeping is no longer necessary. Your poor son sounds like he had a very traumatic few years, and it seems he still needs/wants the contact with one of his parents to feel safe and secure whilst sleeping. Can you put a double bed in his room and take it in turns to sleep in with him, until he asks you not to. We took this approach with DD (didn’t have any trauma we could identify), eventually aged 6.5 years, she asked us not to sleep in with her. Having the double means if they get up, you can easily jump in with them and cosy up, mostly we return to our bed, but sometime if particularly tired we stay in with her. Good luck OP, it sounds very tiring for you all.

I think as a pp said, the early breathing problems have caused this. The reason you had him in with you was because he kept stopping breathing, so you were worried he might die.

Seems to me that this (rational) worry has transferred itself to DS somehow and he is now suffering from this irrational worry as a result. It is worth talking about. If he is sort of worried he might die if he's on his own then that's a horrible thing isn't it and worth discussing. Even if he's 11 and even if he's not just going to stop breathing any more.

Trying to fix the behaviour without talking about that feeling seems a bit cruel.

I second the weighted blanket suggestion - it can be really soothing.

Bloody hell. Think about all the things you're not teaching and he's not learning as a result of indulging this for so many years. You are raising a little princeling who feels perfectly entitled to disturb everyone else in the house; to deprive everyone else of the rest, the sleep, and the privacy you all need, just so long as he gets exactly what he wants. That is a scary scenario.

FFS keep him out of his little sister's bedroom.

I was like your DS as a kid (still hate sleeping alone now. So much so that I’d rather sleep on a sofa than in my bed when home alone).

I think the game changer was getting a tv in my room. Back when there were only four channels so nothing too exciting to watch before bed. I’d be allowed to watch tele before bed and I’d drift off. It took the anxiety away from falling asleep. I still have to do it now.

Also, is your son warm enough? It’s been getting chilly the last few nights. I used to like the warmth of my parents bed. Could you get a heated blanket he can switch on as he pleases? If he’s nice and toasty less likely to want to get out in the middle of the night for a wander.

One of our DDs was like this, I'd be fairly sure she is ND, but we couldn't get an assessment for her. She's an adult now, has never slept well and is permanently exhausted, she was prescribed melatonin as a child.
She always wanted to be close to us. She'd toss and turn for hours in her own bed and then be asleep the minute her head touched the pillow in ours. We did in the end put a small single mattress on the floor in our bedroom and she would creep in and sleep on it. Then when she went to secondary she just stopped in the main. For a couple of years she would come in if she was ill or had nightmares. But we didn't do anything it just came to a natural end. Although we did allow her ipad in bed and she would watch episodes of favourite TV shows and this generally got her back to sleep. She also needs white noise in her room all night. She used to have a fan, but just uses an app now.

Part of my tolerating it was I was the same as a child, I never slept well until the exhaustation of having a child of my own. My parents were not sympathetic, our house was very dark, I was terrified of the dark, had nightmares etc, but wasn't allowed a light and was never allowed in my parents room at night.

8pm bed time seems really early for an 11 year old. Have you tried letting him stay up later?

Hi @Baxterbaxter - we have been there and got the tshirt with DD (now 16). What finally helped her, and us was seeing the school nurse.

We had tried all sorts of strategies and I eventually went to the GP. They referred to school nurse service (tbh I hadn't even realised they still existed). We didn't have to wait too long and we saw her online as DD was absolutely insistent that she didn't want her coming into school.

She was lovely and sent through some worksheets and exercises and we had a couple of follow up sessions.

I'll never really know what it was that made the difference but gradually it did and DD finally began to settle and spend the night in her own bed. She was 12 so a similar age to your son.

I know how exhausting it is, both mentally and physically and my heart goes out to you. And for those suggesting 'tough love' -it isn't always the answer-we tried it and just ended up with everyone in tears and more exhausted than ever. If it were really that easy then I think the child would do it - I personally think there is an underlying reason - we didn't really have a eureka moment as to what was playing on her mind but my suspicion is that she had never been the best sleeper and the pandemic (she lost her grandpa to Covid, I had to shield and her dad works at a hospital) exacerbated this. It could have just been developmental however - guess we will never know.

Anyway - thought it might help you to know there is hope and sending you ❤️.

I thought it was just me as no one else seemed to be mentioning it 😂 i automatically thought of a baby.

my sister did this up until adulthood! It started right after my parents separated. Could there be something else happening at school possibly that might be causing the insomnia and need for reassurance? I would look at sensory things to help, the weighted blanket someone suggested is a great start.

Nice lack of empathy there. My Dad had this attitude, I still struggle now with nightmares and a fear of the dark. We took a different tack with our DD and she's a well adjusted adult.

Obviously he needs to stay out of his sisters room though.

You have my sympathies @Baxterbaxter we are in the trenches of this with 9 year old DD. Once she’s asleep she tends to stay that way but it’s often been 11.30pm before sleep comes and she needs one of us with her.
We are making patchy progress, the things that seem to be working are
magnesium gummies
rescue remedy
pillow spray
reading manifest for kids
leaving the landing light on
but the most impactful seems to have been creating a half hour timeslot to talk about all her worries just before bed. It’s almost like she needs to get it all out of her head (and into mine!) so she can sleep.
We’ve also done the camp bed thing when she was younger and she often ended up in our room on the camp bed but crucially respected the boundary of not coming in with us.
Good luck

'Therapy? Not sure what type but I think your ds needs professional input at this point.He might have deep seated fears of dying in his sleep from the croup/asthma experiences.'

I agree. At 11 I think it is past the point of nightlights, routines etc. He needs professional help so he can talk about his anxieties and perhaps a third party can reset things a bit. Good luck.

Have you tried a weighted blanket? They are really good and soft too for kids who like to stroke/ touch etc. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it my son (ASD) is the same age and we still have to sleep with him as he won't sleep alone. I'm at the point where we all need sleep so I'm just going with it. Hope you get some sleep tonight 💐

Croup can be terrifying as a child.

One of my earliest memories is getting croup. I remember waking up and struggling to breathe, and "knowing" I was about to die.

Of course, I wasn't about to die, but that feeling that I was had always stuck with me. Struggling to breathe really isn't nice.

I wonder if he has some unprocessed trauma associated with sleep because of the croup?

Would a large teddy help? He could cuddle and stroke it to help him get back to sleep in the night.