11 year (yes, YEAR!!) old not sleeping in own bed

[Baxterbaxter]

My just-turned 11 year old cannot sleep in his own bed, by himself, through the night.

It started when he was a baby; he had awful asthma / bad croup and would stop breathing, so I would keep him with me in case of an episode. This happened a few times; each time we rushed him to hospital as he just couldn’t breathe.

He eventually grew out of this but he could only go to sleep if we lay down with him. Guaranteed, he would wake during the night and come into my bed.

Skip forward a few years, and this is EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. He has just gone into year 6 and he refused to go on the residential as he cannot sleep alone.

DH and I are at breaking point, so we have decided he has got to learn to put himself down. We have a 9 year old DD who is a great sleeper - she can put herself to sleep and stays asleep for 12 hours - no issues at all.

Tonight is the second night where we have put DS to sleep; DH laid with him the first night in his own bed, the lamp was on and he has calming music playing. DS was in our room for 3 hours throughout this night, saying he couldn’t sleep. Each time we put him back to bed. Eventually, he went into DD’s bed to sleep. DH and I work full time so we were shattered yesterday, as was DD as DS just moves around constantly (we didn’t realise he went into DD’s room, I found him there in the morning). Tonight is going in the same vein; I lay with him initially and then, bang on midnight, DS is in our room, saying he can’t sleep / can’t close his eyes. He tried to go back into DD’s bed but I got him back out, I must’ve put him back in his own bed at least 15 times over the last 3 hours. My poor DH is driving 6+ hours for work tomo, so I’m trying to let him sleep. He is still up now, walking around, saying he can’t sleep.

What do I do?! I know we have made a rod for our own backs by letting DS come into our bed all these years, even though it was with the best intentions initially as we were concerned about his health.

Do we just ignore him when he gets up, persevere with putting him straight back to sleep? I’m so tired. It’s like having a newborn again.

Interesting, it does suggest it's more about the motivation then, than anxiety. Can he understand the impact on health and growth and need for sleep. I'd do a quick withdrawal as suggested as a plan and then carrot and stick for staying or not staying in bed. Have the expectation that after 2 weeks max it's done.

My DD (now 11, was 10) was an awful sleeper. Wouldn’t get to sleep without us, would come into our room constantly all night every night. We’d play musical beds just to try and get some sleep.

In the end we took her to see a child counsellor. She worked with her for seven sessions and really helped address her concerns (mostly from issues at school which are now resolved but also some health problems). It was fantastic to see the change in her. She did the school residential at the end of summer. It really helped address the cause.

Regarding the touching, I would begin putting boundaries in place with this especially if he's going to aunts and cousins and doing the same to them.
I don't this is age appropriate. Holding hands, stroking hands , hugs out of bed ok but the rest ears, backs ,I don't think that's OK.
If he wants to sleep with you ,he can't keep you awake.
I'm getting firmer on this OP as he has slept in his bed with nits and was proud of himself.

I was your son and couldn't sleep on my own until I was about 11. My parents rules were

1. You always fall asleep in your own bed
2. If you wake in the night you can come into our room
3. You don't wake anyone up and sleep on a mattress on the floor

I grew out of it when I started secondary school and now I love sleep!

What time are you and he going to bed, thus is also part of it to crack, how is he during the day and at school. Are there any different expectations needed there too?

Thanks @Saveusernsme - yes, I’m no stranger to musical beds in the wee hours of the morning! He does suffer a bit with anxiety; he has some quite bad experiences at school (he’s still in primary) and he was assaulted by a couple children (strangled / put in a headlock and punched) but these children have gone onto secondary now. I will speak with his teacher today (who is just lovely) and see if there is anything of concern I should be aware of, but really I should’ve done sorted this at the beginning of summer, and not on his first full week back to school 🤦🏻‍♀️

DH is away overnight tonight, so I’m thinking I will put DD down and then focus on DS. I’ll give him clear boundaries and expectations. I’ll report back and let you know if we manage any sleep tonight!

Yes your update about the nits makes me think that it's OK to be a lot firmer about this. At the end of the day it's about consent. He's using you as a prop and you're no longer happy to be used that way. The camp bed in your room or his sounds like a good idea. He'll get there.

Exactly. He's too old to take liberties like that with other peoples bodies. Especially with his sister's body. If this isn't made clear to him this could go very wrong.

@Doingmybest12 @RoachFish sorry just to confirm, he doesn’t stroke anyone else - just DH and me. There is a query about him having ADHD (I have many traits myself and find it very soothing to do hand / feet / ear rubbing). He is under a peadiatric consultant for an autoimmune disease, and ADHD was flagged up, but, as of yet, we do not have an official diagnosis.

DD is totally opposite and happy just to go in sleepovers with friends and family; no issues there at all. I put them down at 8pm.

I will be much firmer from now on.

This all sounds exhausting, I feel for you, lack of sleep is awful. It’s interesting that you refer to both your children going to bed as ‘putting them down’, like they’re babies or toddlers. It’s good that you’re reassessing how to manage all this.

@ClaudiaWinklepanda yes, now you mention it, it is a weird phrase! Not sure if it’s because of where I live, but my family / DH’s family all call getting children to sleep as “putting them down”. Now you mention it, it is rather macabre 🙈

If he's just started secondary school, this might not be the best time to move him into his own bed. He's probably seeking extra comfort from you both with all the big life changes that he's having. Maybe try again in 6 months to a year.

It's not that weird honestly, I was still sneaking into my mum's bed if I was struggling until I left home.

We have this with one of ours who is only growing out of it at 13 now, one of us ended up sleeping with him most nights. We accepted it in the end and it's fine, we all want a good nights sleep! Actually it's now moved to just being with him until he falls asleep, which is lovely for chatting about school and so on. He's so well adjusted, popular in school etc.

Funnily enough he went on a 1 week residential earlier this year and was one of the most confident kids ... a few went home homesick, and some couldn't sleep, some homesick tears....our kid loved it. Which is unexpected!

There's no reason for the co sleeping other than he loves company I guess. He's slowly growing out of it now. My advice and only my experience is just go with it so you all sleep and he'll grow out of it. Some kids are just like this.

I'm an insomniac and one of my DS is, my other loves sleep and asks to go to bed. I didn't sleep as a teen and whilst I didn't get in to my parents bed I spent about 3-4 hours a night wandering around the house checking on them, making sure they were still there and alive and making sure no one had come in to the house. It was all anxiety related because I would lie panicked in my bed that someone had broken in to the house and convince myself that I could hear noises.

I think at 11 he is old enough to be learning about sleep hygiene and to start taking responsibility for setting conditions to get himself to sleep. It has to be in his own bed on his own and he can read for x amount of minutes and then the lamp goes off. No tv/devices for a couple hours before bed, shower before bed and relaxing handcream and things if he is a very tactile person (which it sounds like he is!). My DC have a spray for their pillows for sleep and always listen to an audio book to fall asleep. My eldest often wakes and will put his audio book back on alexa to drift back off.
Let him look at all the options available and see what would help him, I personally can't sleep without an eyemask. I don't like a weighted blanket because when I wake up I feel trapped but some people swear by them.

Set non negotiables, going into DD room is becoming less appropriate and she should have her own safe space whilst she is sleeping. I wouldn't personally stop him from waking me but you can decide what works for you. I have about 4 different spots I travel to during the night when I can't sleep where I won't disturb people and I've got a particular blanket that is really soft that often works. I also listen to audio books but it's got to be the same book over and over again.

A sleep therapist?

Sorry I don't have any advice, but this thread is reassuring that we are not alone. I hope you can manage to start working out a way forward to get some sleep. DD is 11 and still won't sleep alone. She was fine on the school residential as she was sharing a room. She just says it's too scary if there is no-one else in the room with her.

Loads of people say ‘put the children down to bed’ it’s pretty standard, if a bit weird when you think about it!

This^^
Any of my children did this, I'd be telling them there'd be punishment for disturbing everyone's sleep so selfishly. At 11 he should know better and understand he needs to develop his own coping skills (with your help maybe, but which exclude coming into your room or his sister's).

I was like this as a child. I had bad anxiety that my parents didn’t really know what to do with (and I largely hid from them because I knew that it was “weird”) - mental health stuff was never discussed when I was young.

The only time I couldn’t hide my anxiety was at night - I was absolutely terrified of sleeping alone.

They had a mattress on the floor and I slept there.

Therapy would have helped me - and mental health support. But it was the 90s and that was NEVER gonna happen.

Does your child suffer from anxiety in the daytime too?

(Also, I had undiagnosed ADHD! It’s been suggested that the ADHD caused the anxiety I have suffered with for most of my life!)

You got to talk about this with him when he’s calm, maybe at the weekend. There must be an underlying reason and there are many ways to promote sleep, some of which you’ve tried.
Our DS who is now 20 had a couple of years of awful sleep which started in lockdown no. 2 - one night be just didn’t sleep and it was awful for about a month, but even after that he struggled. He used to come in to our room (-age 16 and over 6ft) - I’d go and sleep in DD’s vacant bed (she was at uni) and he’d get in with dh as we had to have our sleep. This was all anxiety related really as he’d been a good sleeper up until then. But even after things had improved my sleep wasn’t great cos I’d got in to a habit of waking up and also being anxious he’d wake up.
Everyone had to function so you need to find a solution that suits you all. Good luck!

Here, putting a child down to sleep is more like putting a baby down to sleep in their cot. Older children go to bed or get ready for bed. I think that's what the previous poster was getting at , a baby phrase?

Pretend you and dd have caught nits?!

With every update op, it sounds like you and your dh have been very permissive of your ds at the expense of everyone else in the family.

Cuddling his cousin when he can't sleep? How old is the cousin and is she female?

This has got to stop. The nits incident proves he doesn't really need it.

Your son will be a teen soon. Please think about what you're teaching him. He needs to learn that his wants do not trump others' needs. (Including a need for undisturbed sleep and privacy)

"Not sure if it’s because of where I live, but my family / DH’s family all call getting children to sleep as “putting them down”. Now you mention it, it is rather macabre 🙈"

It's not macabre, it's infantilising. They're referring to much younger children and babies who you literally put down into a cot after being rocked to sleep. I suspect the rest of the family have stopped saying it as their kids turned about 4 and you just didn't notice. I'd start using more grown up language for starters.

Reading this slightly agog. 11 years old and wanting to stroke his parents to get to sleep?!

I’d be giving this a pretty short shrift at his age and forbade him from disturbing anybody’s sleep. He’s proved he can sleep alone (nit incident) so at this point, he’s just acting out his preferences.

I’d be introducing another case of ‘nits’ and not entertaining anything after that point.

Maybe try melatonin gummies so he goes to sleep pretty quickly?

Get him a weighted blanket, it's a game changer.

I'd also have a chat and tell him he's to old for this, that his friends at school don't do this and he needs to grow up a bit, sometimes you need to be harsh to be kind.