Refugee Guest puts 5 yr old to bed too late

[No1pugmum]

We’ve been happily hosting a refugee and her son for 18 months. He was 3 when they joined us, now 5. When they arrived. he regularly went to bed after 10pm and she asked me to help him have an earlier bedtime after I explained how it wasn't good for anyone that he was staying up so late. That worked and he was going to bed earlier. Fast forward to now. He’s in Reception, but he’s regularly up at 8:30, sometimes even later, on a school day. On Sunday he was still up and watching telly at 8:30 and, last night, I got home from taking my older daughter out and he was still up at 8pm, watching telly, not fed and still in his school uniform. I told her I was concerned with his late bedtimes and he should be in bed by 7pm. Her response was to say she can’t put him to bed earlier because she’s got online courses that need to be done at a certain time as other people are involved and the times can’t be changed. I appreciate she wants to better herself, but I don’t think she realises how much a late bedtime could be affecting her son’s development and well being. Should I continue to try to advise, or butt out? I feel like I’m failing him if it continues. Any advice is appreciated.

I love these type of threads as it's the same predictable theme:-

British culture = bad
Rest of the World brilliant.

Ok so Spanish kids stay up late. Is that really so good? We're told that eating late is bad for your health etc, so why is that lifestyle the one to be applauded? For all we know there's panel discussions on RTVE wondering why kids are so knackered every morning.

Personally, when j was a kid I loved staying late, especially on Sunday night if I caught the South Bank Show on LWT. But boy did I pay for it the next day, I'd be proper hanging, and it done me no favours.

YOUR young kids needed 12 hours a night, doesn't mean they all do. Children are all different, just like adults. There's no one rule for all.

Thank goodness you've decided to butt out!
But I honestly don't understand why you ever thought it was your place to tell her when her child should go to bed. Imagine the posts from someone who's had to move in with family and whose mother or MIL is dictating her parenting. Or closer to your situation, her landlord telling her how to parent!

Amazingly kids in Spain and Eastern Europe manage to cope with school after going to bed at 8:30 or later. And school often starts earlier there than here!

Something isnt working.
I rescued a friend from homelessness and she had 5 year old twins. She wasnt the ideal roommate but she retired every night with them at 6:30. I was relieved to have sitting room to myself, otherwise I would have cracked up.
Having small children hovering around late is irritating. Do you get a chance to watch T. V. or have they taken over..??????????

8.30 is fine for bedtime and 7 seems very early. But regardless it is her child and I thought you were going to say he was going to bed after midnight. Leave her to her parenting and not your business really.

Thats the recommended amount for young children. Ofcourse not every child is going to be the same, but I dont think there’s any harm in the OP discussing it with the Mum if she is concerned. But i’d leave it at a friendly chat.

It's recommended here, but by no means is it recommended in all other countries.

This is definitely cultural. I’m American and I don’t know anyone who puts their 5 year old to bed that early regularly. When I was growing up (I’m 30), we ate dinner at 8 PM most nights. My parents weren’t at all strict about bedtime, but to my recollection it was typically between 9 and 10.

This would’ve been true from the time I started first grade (age 6, with siblings ages 5 and 3) until I was probably 14. I don’t think it was too much different before that, but I have a hard time remembering a daily routine before that.

Can you imagine if it was the other way around and the refugee family were telling OP that she needs to let her kids stay up later and asking her why she puts them in bed so early? Why OP thinks she is in a superior position to judge and advise this mother is bizarre, and similarly her concern about her being "independent" after moving out. She's not staying there because she's made mistakes and is unable to manage her own life without help. A war, which was completely outside of her control, destroyed her home. She (presumably) was managing just fine without OP's parenting advice long before this happened!

And thats why children have earlier bedtimes here (UK) - school usually finishes at no earlier than 3.15pm from 4 years upwards (plus travel time home after school). Alot of kids at Primary school upwards do after school clubs/sports aswell or just have some time at home to play after school.

By the time you add on dinner, bath, homework/reading, most are exhausted and ready for bed alot earlier than 9/9.30pm. No judgement how other countries do it, but thats why alot of kids here are ready for bed early.

80% of Mums work in the UK so not really realistic for a child age 7/8 to be picked up at 2pm.

Tbf local councils do a lot of work with hosts to make sure that they encourage and teach independence. Ukraine is a very patriarchal society and many of the women have never paid bills, or made a decision about their lives. (Not all, I hasten to add. I’ve also met very strong, independent Ukrainian women, mostly from Kyiv). Our guest was shocked that women here drive cars! She would even ask my opinion on which clothes to buy because her husband would usually choose them for her.

Agree with this!!!

We hosted a family of 5 for over a year. While it was largely positive, we did struggle with some cultural clashes - the eldest two DC went to bed at 10-11pm (aged 3 and 6), had zero routine, and used to randomly fall asleep in the day (I once carried the 6 year old up to bed at 10pm, I found her asleep in the garden, her parents hadn't even come looking for her!).

Apparently Ukrainian parents are much more hands-off than us Brits, which makes for very independent kids (the 3 year old would happily make herself a sandwich), but it's bizarre to us - over there, it's normal to leave a 6-year-old home alone all day during school holidays.

We had to explain that leaving young children home alone is not legal here, and neither is beating your children (I'm not talking about a smacked bum, way worse).

They did get used to most of our cultural norms, but always struggled with bedtimes - the only times the DC went to bed at an age-appropriate time was when I babysat them, they fell asleep no bother at 8pm.

You sound like extremely controlling. 8.30 isn't worryingly late for a 5 year old in my opinion, although 10pm is pushing it.
Not all children go to bed at 7pm. Different families have different schedules. My 5 year old is rarely in bed before 8.

Are you thinking “my house, my rules?”
Because I’m thinking “not my child, not my business.”

I think the whole point here is that they're living with you so routines have to work for the whole household. I get why you'd want the living room to yourself by 8.

Bedtime was always around 8.30 for our kids at that age. Any earlier and they would stay awake til that time anyway. 7pm seems very early to me, although I know some kids need longer sleep than others. Ours would sleep through to 7.30am which has always been sufficient for them.

You are overstepping boundaries so far it is wild you don't see it. How have you got the nerve to dictate how she raises her child!

My DC has always been a bad sleeper. If I'd put them to bed at 7.30 (as per in line with a number of their peers) they'd still be wide awake at 10pm or later. If I put them to bed at 8.30/9pm, they'd fall asleep far quicker.
Not everyone needs the same amount of sleep.

@KvotheTheBloodless^ 'We had to explain that leaving young children home alone is not legal here, and neither is beating your children (I'm not talking about a smacked bum, way worse).^

Is that really true? Surely parents across the globe are united in knowledge you can't hurt children?

Where is 12 hours recommended for this age? Normal sleep patterns for children are in a range - not every child will need the same.

i would feel compelled to say something if the child was experiencing parenting that was causing him distress or harming his health in some way. Putting him to bed 1.5 hours later than the time that the OP feels is correct is just not in this category. There is nothing to see here.

No I’m some counties corporal punishment is par of the course. It can be a difficult issue when dealing with social services here then.

Surely your post title should read "I think my guest puts their 5 year old to bed too late?'
It's your opinion, not definite fact, and its their child.

If they are Ukrainian then its completely normal in our country. I grew up going to bed at 9pm, it was accepted as normal time for children's bed time. I actually think its weird for kids to go to bed at 7, for example, at any age - too early.