Settling techniques aren’t working at night, and I’m getting angry with my baby. Please help.

[Midnightmadnessmum]

Hello all. NC for obvious reasons. DD2 is 8 months old, and is definitely showing some signs of separation anxiety. She can settle to sleep by herself in her cot with a comforter, but likes me to be close by when she goes to sleep. Needing me around has definitely increased recently, but I don’t mind this at all.

She wakes 2-3 times a night, generally. When she wakes, I pick her up, feed her, rock her, try to put her back down. I’ve had to add the rocking in recently as she used to just fall asleep feeding which was fine. This process used to work pretty well but things have changed recently.

Firstly, with the feeding, she isn’t really taking any milk now. I find it quite uncomfortable as she’s just sucking and not feeding. It doesn’t get her back to sleep now either because she’s not really getting milk, and doesn’t even seem to make her sleepy. It just stops her crying for a few minutes.

Secondly with the rocking she is fighting me. Arching her back and screeching. I can rock her back to sleep still if I persevere, however.

Then when I put her down, she sometimes stays asleep or resettles in her cot (she seems to be better at this at around 5-6am, than in the middle of the night. Weird, I know.). However for her earlier wake she has been waking fully and then fighting her sleep for ages while I comfort her in the cot. Last night she woke at 11.40
and didn’t go back to sleep (and stay asleep) until 12.30. Ultimately I sat by her cot patting her a bit until she eventually fell asleep but it didn’t feel nice for either of us, and it doesn’t seem very effective. An hour seems like a long time to be awake as well, given her wakes used to be much quicker.

With the fighting and screaming, the night wakes are making me feel really angry. I’m having strong impulses to hurt my baby. Thoughts of smacking her etc. This is so, so unlike me, and it’s really scary. My older DD was a much worse sleeper and I didn’t feel this way. I don’t feel I can tell anyone about it. In case it needs saying: I don’t believe in smacking, I don’t hurt her, and more than anything I do not want to lose control. So far if I’ve gotten overwhelmed I have left the room, but I feel I am actively fighting myself to stay calm and I feel like I’m going a bit mad, to be honest.

Does anyone have any ideas, for settling her or managing how I’m feeling? I am living in hope that her sleep will naturally improve in the next few weeks with separation anxiety reducing. I
want to be able to comfort DD2 effectively in the night. At the moment I don’t feel able to help her and I think that is probably at the heart of my rage. But it’s not good for her or me and I need to make sure we are all safe. Thank you in advance for reading.

I’m so grateful for all these thoughtful replies. I’m sat up in the dark holding her while she sleeps as she won’t be put down. Been up since 4am and was up with her 12.30-2am.

At around 5.30 I woke DH and asked him to try as nothing I was doing was helping and she was just screaming. He settled her quickly, came back to bed. She woke up again, he settled her fairly quickly again, she woke up again after around 15 minutes, so 6.30. So here I am again.

This has been one of the worst nights I can remember with her. Things have been getting worse but this is next level.

This morning I am going to my sister’s house to sleep for a few hours and leaving DH to it.

I am open to all the suggestions everyone has made and I will give them all some thought. @TomorrowAndTomorrowAndTomorrow and @xxcatcatcatxx I don’t find that she is any better in bed with me. She seems to like being held and rocked or bounced so being next to me wouldn’t make much difference. There’s a rocking chair in her room so it’s a lot easier to get up and rock her than it would be to be on a mattress in here.

Also with the sleepyhead idea @bigshoutingday she sleeps on her side or her tummy so I don’t think that would be safe. It sounds like it worked really well for you though!

@Msmbc @amispeakingintongues @Choppies I am going to think about controlled crying. My biggest worry is that she will be awake for ages in the night an and she will be really overtired, just making everything worse. And I’ve read lots of posts where people say it works in 2-3 nights but I worry it wouldn’t be very quick for us and im not sure how long I would cope.

@LapinR0se @Simonjt she is a great napper. She settles to sleep in her cot with me on the chair. She has two naps, usually sleeps 2.5-3.5 hours during the day, depending on when she wakes up. She goes down for the night around 3.5 hours after her last nap.

Hope you manage to catch up on a bit of sleep at least for the moment💕 xxx

How is she eating during the day and what times are the naps?

Just saw your reply asking when we did.

Both of them were fine going to bed and napping but the night wakes got crazy.

I'd go in when they cried and roll them onto their backs (they both used sleeping bags) and return their comfort item. I'd rub their tummies and shhh, say it was sleepy time. Then I'd leave and sit on the top step for 2 mins. Go back in and tummy rub / shhh and leave for 4 mins. Repeat with 6,8,10 intervals. Never more than 10 mins and just keep going in every 10 mins.

First time it took about an hour for them to drop off. Second time it was only about 20 mins and so on.

Poor you. Not uncommon. What is she using during the day. Have you introduced her to a tommee tippee first cup. Sell to her, like a big girl, water in the day, milk at night.

@Twizbe thanks for your reply. Can I ask, how many nights did it take? Did they sleep through? And what did you do when they woke after you’d ‘finished’ controlled crying?

I can see that something needs to change overnight as DD isn’t settling like she used to and maybe she just needs to learn to resettle herself during the night.

@LapinR0se she eats very well. She’s a big girl and she loves her food. In terms of naps, it depends when she gets up, but generally speaking she naps 2.5-3 hours after she wakes in the morning. She wakes any time from 6.30-8 and I wake her at 8am if she’s not up yet. Her first nap tends to be her longer nap but not always. She can sleep up to 2.5 hours for this nap some days, but when she’s up later it tends to be more like 1-1.5 hours. I try to make sure her first nap is finished by 12 so she has her lunch. Then her next nap starts no earlier than 2, no later than 3.30, again depending on when she last woke. Sometimes it’s just 40 minutes, other times more like 1.5-2 hours. I don’t let her sleep past 4pm. Sorry it’s not a straightforward answer, we don’t have a rigid routine, partly because the nights are so unpredictable.

Eldest was 3 nights and youngest 4 but the 'worst' was the first. After 1 night it drastically reduced.

If they woke after we could take it in turns to go and settle but it was usually because something was wrong. Either they were ill or teething so we could do things like calpol much quicker.

Tbh though after we might have 1 night wake a week.

I should add we have had to revisit controlled crying a couple of times since. Usually when there has been a change such as moving to a bed from a cot. Or after illness when they just need some help to reset to normal sleep patterns.

Those times would be a night or two max and again after clear changes that needed some help

Ok. That first nap is very long and she is using it to compensate for the broken nights. So it is exacerbating the issue.

You are in a pretty bad situation regarding your own sleep and mental health so I would try a really strict routine for a week and see if it helps at all:
7am wake regardless of what happened in the night (this is painful but important)
milk feed
8.30am porridge and fruit
9.15 - 10am nap 1. Wake at 10am regardless of what happened with the nap
11.30 lunch including protein eg fish pie or spag bol
12.30-2.30 nap 2. Wake by 2.30
3pm milk
5pm supper with no protein eg baby minestrone or veggie risotto
6pm bath
6.30 big milk feed
7pm bed lights out

absolutely LOADS of fresh air and daylight during waking hours. And if there is any doubt about teething give calpol.

@twizbe that’s really helpful thank you

@LapinR0se the point you’ve made about the nap is something I’ve wondered but she does seem to need her sleep. When she has a short first nap she can have a worse second nap so I’ve just gone with the first nap being longer. That also seems like a long gap before bed. Do you think our gap is too small? Are you a sleep consultant? You seem very knowledgeable. Any suggestions for overnight?

If she is very tired you can either extend the lunchtime nap to 3pm and keep the 7pm bedtime, or move bedtime to 6.30pm. You really need to avoid overtiredness which is a major culprit in night wakes.

I would do every single settle for nap and bed precisely the same so there is consistency and your baby knows what to expect. Choose your method and stick to it religiously.

I am not a sleep consultant but used to work alongside one and saw over 300 babies being helped. It is not all about crying it out…getting the routine right and consistent is the first and most important step.
also the sleep environment has to be right. A nice cot, one sleep association such as a baby-safe comforter, a sleeping bag and warm enough layers. Blackout and white noise help too.

@LapinR0se thank you for taking the time to give all this advice. She has a good routine for bed and naps, the same each time. She also is warm enough, has a nice cot, white noise, and a comforter. I think the sleep environment is set up well.

I’m going to give it a try with a proper routine like you suggest. The main thing I want to avoid is overtiredness because it really makes her worse at night. That’s why I tend not to wake her from long naps, but I have often wondered if that first nap is just compensating for the night. Do you have any tips on how to avoid overtiredness if the nights are bad and then you’re waking the baby on top of that?

Yes you need a long restorative lunchtime nap. That’s the key to avoiding overtiredness. Ideally it would be 2 to 2.5 hrs long.

Is her cot in your room? Could you take one of the sides off and move it up against your bed? I never wanted to do controlled crying so did this with my 3. Then I could just lie in my bed and feed them back without any picking up and putting down, as the putting down was always what disturbed them.
I hope you find the right answer for you💐

How are things @Midnightmadnessmum

@LapinR0se thanks for asking after us. We have been trying a routine similar to the one you suggested with the second nap slightly later so that she’s not awake too long before bedtime. This will be day three.

The first night was much better with her waking twice and settling fairly well. Last night was awful. She woke at 11.15 and I was back in bed (yes, on New Year’s Eve, this is my life now!) by 11.45 so not bad. But she got woken up by fireworks at 12.20 and both me and DH tried to settle her until she finally fell back to sleep at 2.30, and I was back in bed by 2.45. So in spite of not staying up for NYE I was awake until 3am! She then slept til about 7.20. I would have woken her at 7.30. The difficulty is that she is clearly tired, yawning, and trying to sleep. We both managed to get her to sleep a few times but it didn’t stick. It just feels like nothing we do helps.

I’ve felt less angry as well the past two nights, which has been good.

When you say you are trying to settle her in the night, what are you doing (you and your DH)

It’s like I said in my OP. I go in, pick her up, feed her for a bit but she chews on my boob for a few minutes, basically. She doesn’t seem able to fall asleep feeding anymore. Then I give up on that and try to rock her and pat her back to sleep. Sometimes that works and I put her down after a few minutes. Sometimes she stays asleep. When she doesn’t I pat her and rub her back in the cot and sometimes that settles her. Other times she just gets more and more awake and angry (she never seems upset she’s just furious not to be asleep!), and I might pick her up and rock her again. Last night I think I fed her three times during that long wake. I basically just try all the different things that used to work until something eventually does…

She’s only just gone down for her first nap at 10.15. The way she settles before sleep is also getting trickier because she seems to want me to be physically touching her in order to sleep. She used to just settle happily with me sitting in the room. (Before that she used to settle happily with me out of the room…)

So out of desperation this morning I left the room after doing her routine. She grizzled/chatted/rolled around for a few minutes. Then she started to cry (not badly, but it was crying), so I went in after two minutes and reassured her. Then went in after four minutes, and then I didn’t go back in again as she was making some noise and awake but she wasn’t crying she was just grumbling herself off to sleep. So I guess that’s a positive? I feel sick. Unfortunately though it took 30 minutes for her to sleep, so not sticking to the routine at all.

I just gave up and co slept.

This sounds really tough. You have had some good advice here but I think what you are lacking is consistency in the way that you are settling her to sleep and consider dropping the first nap. I wouldn’t do feeding to sleep as it’s not working anyway and she ultimately needs to learn to settle herself.

Have you tried The Little Ones sleep program? It’s a gentle programme, very routine focussed. I used it when my DD was 12 weeks old and it has worked for everyone I have recommended it to. But it does require you to stick to it. It will save your sanity.

Use white noise and a blackout blind to avoid her being woken up by noise and light.

Wake her up at 11 and do the afternoon nap 1.30-3.

your night time settling is all over the place, that’s why it isn’t working. A bit of boob, a bit of rocking, a bit of shush pat etc.
a tiny bit of controlled crying worked just now for the nap. I would do spaced soothing for every single nap and and night with the soothing being exactly the same thing every time. (Eg patting or stoking back or hair).

The boob is not working so if you want to keep breastfeeding you need to break the sleep association and make it more for hydration/nutrition

@LapinR0se what is spaced soothing? i googled it and controlled crying comes up, but from your post it seems different?

i agree I’m all over the place, and we need to be consistent.

@purpledalmation i would gladly do that but it doesn’t work either

@Mumsanetta
thanks for your post I agree we need to be consistent. I think actually on reflection the inconsistency is probably contributing to her stress at night as she doesn’t know what i will try next. There’s zero chance she’s ready to only have one nap, but I’m trying to follow a bit more of a routine the past few days and seeing how that works out. I just woke her up from a hard won nap, which felt unnatural! But hopefully for the best.