Settling techniques aren’t working at night, and I’m getting angry with my baby. Please help.

[Midnightmadnessmum]

Hello all. NC for obvious reasons. DD2 is 8 months old, and is definitely showing some signs of separation anxiety. She can settle to sleep by herself in her cot with a comforter, but likes me to be close by when she goes to sleep. Needing me around has definitely increased recently, but I don’t mind this at all.

She wakes 2-3 times a night, generally. When she wakes, I pick her up, feed her, rock her, try to put her back down. I’ve had to add the rocking in recently as she used to just fall asleep feeding which was fine. This process used to work pretty well but things have changed recently.

Firstly, with the feeding, she isn’t really taking any milk now. I find it quite uncomfortable as she’s just sucking and not feeding. It doesn’t get her back to sleep now either because she’s not really getting milk, and doesn’t even seem to make her sleepy. It just stops her crying for a few minutes.

Secondly with the rocking she is fighting me. Arching her back and screeching. I can rock her back to sleep still if I persevere, however.

Then when I put her down, she sometimes stays asleep or resettles in her cot (she seems to be better at this at around 5-6am, than in the middle of the night. Weird, I know.). However for her earlier wake she has been waking fully and then fighting her sleep for ages while I comfort her in the cot. Last night she woke at 11.40
and didn’t go back to sleep (and stay asleep) until 12.30. Ultimately I sat by her cot patting her a bit until she eventually fell asleep but it didn’t feel nice for either of us, and it doesn’t seem very effective. An hour seems like a long time to be awake as well, given her wakes used to be much quicker.

With the fighting and screaming, the night wakes are making me feel really angry. I’m having strong impulses to hurt my baby. Thoughts of smacking her etc. This is so, so unlike me, and it’s really scary. My older DD was a much worse sleeper and I didn’t feel this way. I don’t feel I can tell anyone about it. In case it needs saying: I don’t believe in smacking, I don’t hurt her, and more than anything I do not want to lose control. So far if I’ve gotten overwhelmed I have left the room, but I feel I am actively fighting myself to stay calm and I feel like I’m going a bit mad, to be honest.

Does anyone have any ideas, for settling her or managing how I’m feeling? I am living in hope that her sleep will naturally improve in the next few weeks with separation anxiety reducing. I
want to be able to comfort DD2 effectively in the night. At the moment I don’t feel able to help her and I think that is probably at the heart of my rage. But it’s not good for her or me and I need to make sure we are all safe. Thank you in advance for reading.

OP, well done for admitting you are at the end of your tether. The one thing that really helped me was someone saying to me "while they are crying they are conscious and breathing, so you know they are OK". I don't know why but that stopped me feeling so overwhelmed and worried and less angry.

Once I realised that screaming was telling me that they were alive and OK, I found it easier to let my DC cry it out a bit more. I would settle them down and then leave. If they cried I'd let them for a bit, go in and settle them quickly and then leave . It took about three nights then they went off fine.

We would wait for the set amount of minutes and if she was still crying go in and give her some comfort. Initially it would be a pick up and cuddle then leave and wait the next set amount of minutes which would be like 2 mins longer.if she was still crying at this time we would go in again to soothe with maybe a backrub. We didn't stay in the room.

Although there is a method which involves sitting in room with them whilst they fall asleep. First night you sit right beside cot, then next night you move a foot away, and keep moving further away each night until out of room. This is a more gentle approach, which means it will take longer.

Just posting to get this out. I’ve got an important day today and I needed to have a decent night last night, but instead DD was up for 2 hours in the middle of the night again. We didn’t even try CC in the hopes that other kinds of settling would be quicker but nothing either of us did managed to get her to stay asleep. She seemed absolutely wide awake at points. She finally settled almost exactly two hours after she woke up, just lying in her bed with me rubbing her back. Proper split nights. The toddler also got up for a cuddle a couple of times, after the 2 hour wake up. I am feeling so angry and despairing. I just don’t know what to do anymore.

Sorry things are so tough. I feel for you. My baby is exactly the same age and I'm very strict about limiting day time sleep so as not to impact nights. I get him up for day at 7:30 if he is not up before. He then sleeps 9:30-10:10 and then 1:15-2:45. He will later occasionally have 5 or 10 minute nap if he happens to fall asleep in car. He goes to bed by 7:30 pm. I think that you're having issues because you're not consistent in what you're doing in the night. You need to stick to one method and be strong. Otherwise it won't work. It can take about 10 days to have consistent results but you'll normally see significant improvements within 3 days. I followed a sleep sense programme (google it) which gives you a 10 day programme and gives you short videos and tells you what to do each day. It will work if you're consistent and don't doubt yourself.

@naomiembrace thanks for your reply. DD was ill for over two weeks with that awful virus going around, and she was sleeping so much all day and her night wakes were pretty quick. I’m wondering if I got a skewed idea of her wake windows and sleep needs because of this. I’m being much more careful with day sleep now and finding that the past two nights have been better.

At the moment she is doing:

6-6.30 wake
9.30 - nap 40 minutes (she is now waking up herself from this which suggests she isn’t making up for the night in the morning now?)
1.45 nap until 3.30 (I’m waking her)
7.30 bed

The last two nights she has woken once and it’s taken about 45 minutes for her to settle back to sleep. The first night I comforted her at intervals, and stayed with her when she seemed ready to settle back to sleep. So I left her for 2 minutes, 4 minutes, then 6 minutes and after that she seemed ready to sleep again so I sat with her and rubbed her back until she fell back to sleep.

Last night I left her for 2 minutes and then when I went in to comfort her she was ready to settle again, so I sat with her with my hand on her back/rubbing her back sometimes until she fell back to sleep. She went back to sleep a few times and woke herself back up, but eventually settled and stayed down til 6am.

When she’s calm in the cot and I’m with her I’m not getting overwhelmed so it feels like a balance between both of our needs to use this approach. I’m hoping that the routine will settle and the wakes will get even shorter.

DH took both kids this morning while I had a bit more sleep, which was kind as the toddler was also up last night because the bloody cat woke her!

Sorry for the brain dump. It helps just to write it down.

@naomiembrace sorry I meant to ask you - instead of just going into far too much detail about our nights! - how you settled on such a long wake window for your DC before bed? Online a lot of websites say 3.5 hours at nine months (DD is 9 months now).

Your routine is perfect now @Midnightmadnessmum

Glad things are improving-that is great! I've been loosely following Gina Ford with the routine and that's what she suggests. Also, I have to leave the house to collect other kids at 3pm so it fits. My baby also seems to manage the gap OK (helps to have dinner in the middle). However I'm now doubting myself as the last few mornings he's been waking at 5/5:30 am and v difficult to resettle (this morning it took over 1.5 hours and he was wide awake, wanting to play), so not sure what I'm doing wrong!

@LapinR0se thank you. I wish DD knew that! She woke early from her second nap today, at 3pm. She cried and clearly didn’t want to be awake so I probably could have resettled her but couldn’t leave my older DD that long. I will see how tonight goes but I don’t think she has had enough daytime sleep. This is why I hate routines, it feels like setting yourself up to feel like you’ve failed! At the same time, I can absolutely see that the lack of routine wasn’t helping at all before.

@naomiembrace that sounds really annoying! It’s impressive you kept going for so long with resettling, I think I would have given up at that time. I obviously haven’t got a clue what I’m doing so I won’t even begin to try and give you any advice. If you’ve been doing the routine for a while and it’s worked well, hopefully the early starts are just a blip.

So today she slept 1.45-3?

i would do a 6.45 bedtime

Oh dear I didn’t see this in time. She’s just settling now. Seems to be happily drifting off. She seemed tired but not unusually so. I suppose I’ll find out tonight whether the shorter nap makes everything worse…! Thanks for the ongoing advice. It’s really been a lifeline for me @LapinR0se

Glad to hear she is settling down to sleep now. Fingers crossed for a nice restful night

Good luck tonight. I'd be interested to know if the shorter nap makes a difference. If so,maybe I should try extending day time sleep because maybe the early wake up is due to overtiredness. Not sure though, because he seemed so awake and wanting to play at 5 am. Agh! Anyway good luck tonight x

My 9month old has had a rough few months with sleep due to illness and probably regressions etc. He's so unbelievably overtired and even has bags under his eyes. I've actually shortened his ww down and giving him 2 decent naps a day at the moment. Could your DD be really overtired and actually need a bit more sleep to catch up?

@Justbecause19 your poor DS! I hope he gets the sleep he needs soon. It’s absolutely possible she is overtired, however, her sleep seems to have improved with more awake time. She also seems bright as a button during her awake time so I don’t have the impression she is overtired. However I don’t have a clue what I’m doing so maybe she is. If things get worse again then I could test that theory.

Last night she did 8 hours in a block which was great, but then couldn’t settle back to sleep for about 1.5 hours, then slept two hours more and was up for the day happily. I’ve been keeping a record of her sleep and she is generally having around 10 hours a night. I am wondering if I need to keep her up a good bit later to try and make sure all her awake time is in the day instead of having some of it at night.

That sounds really not bad at all. Don’t cut her day sleep! 8 months is sleep progression/regression whatever you like to call it. She is consolidating her sleep. Stay in a consistent routine with consistent settling techniques and she will be set up

*6-6.30 wake
9.30 - nap 40 minutes (she is now waking up herself from this which suggests she isn’t making up for the night in the morning now?)
1.45 nap until 3.30 (I’m waking her)
7.30 bed

This lunch nap would be better 1-3. Or 12.30-2.30.

Just an update, I have been doing one nap a day 12-2 for the past few days. Started when she completely refused her first nap one day. The night wakes have been much, much shorter and calmer. It’s been amazing. Last night she woke once for around 15 minutes, went back to sleep with me sitting next to her, hand on her back. Otherwise she slept 7.15-6.30. I realise this isn’t what a baby ‘should’ do at her age but it seems to have really helped her. My eldest was similar with really long wakes and also dropped to one nap at 10m, which helped her as well. So maybe I just make strange babies with long wake windows.

She is tired by nap/bedtime but happy and playing, it seems to suit her okay.

Sounds great! Well done!

CC or CIO has been shown to cause stress on babies and trauma.
Read Dr Bill Spears (paediateician and father of 8) Dr Mckenna and IBCLC and sleep consultant Pinky McKay.

Sears work was proven to be flaky, he based his research on rats and primates and the only human based one was on children being left at daycare. Whilst the daycare one did show a rise in cortisol levels, researchers did not find this ride led to any adverse affects. Also, Kluger, who Sears quoted in his study said her work was irrelevant to Sears work as she studied on children who were categorized as neglected.
Likewise Kaufman, who he also cited to support his findings was not scientifically justified as her work also focused on children experiencing abuse and neglect.

Great response @MatronicO6.

I wonder if any research has been carried out on the effects of chronic sleep deprivation in babies and toddlers.

@MixedCouple

Thanks for your helpful input! I would imagine that a mum losing her mind in the middle of the night is also pretty stressful for babies. My DD cried a little for 12 minutes when I left her to settle. I don’t believe that’s done her any harm at all. She is thriving and I am much calmer when she wakes in the night. I sit with her and she goes back off to sleep quickly. She is also getting more sleep. Win win win.