i know i can't dictate who posts and what they say, but i would LIKE only tips and support please - we ARE starting controlled crying with ds2 (6mo)

[Tutter]

this is the age we used the method with ds1 and it worked really well - 3 nights and we've hardly had a bad night since (he's 2.7yo) (early wakings excepted)

ds2 is a shocking sleeper. we've tried anything and everything. shh-pat worked for a week or so. we're now back to square 1

we are comfortable with using cc now he's 6mo. i know many of you think it's plain wrong, btu it's the decision we've made

ds2 and i are decamping to a spare room tonight (far from ds1) so i will be in the same room as him

i plan to go to the cot after 5 mins and just make shh-ing noises and rub his back. is that right - can't remmber what is suggested - is the back rub too much intervention?

Well tutter our babies are from the same mould.. I could have written that same waking routine. My DS is 6 months and has NEVER slept for longer than a couple of hours at a time. We co-sleep and like you I have tried EVERYTHING except CC.. will be watching the thread with interest.. best of luck to you

Is his full nappy waking him? Have you tried putting him in a larger size? This helped us when DS2 would wake with wet and leaking nappy - but he is 8 months now and a terrible sleeper just so you know.
And I know you dont want to hear it but I also think that 6 months is too, also just because it worked for your DS1 it doesnt mean it will work for DS2 as you have said.
I think co-sleeping and feeding when needed is the only way through it. I found that with DS1 he slept better once he started to move around/crawl and am hoping DS2 will be similar. WIll say no more.

too YOUNG meant to say!

Yes, how much does he weigh and what size nappies is he in?

I did CC with DD1 at 3mo. (I had the first edition of Ferber's book). It worked quickly and she's never looked back. I did intervals and multiples of 2 minutes. For example 2,2,4,4,4,6. The first night she cried in total a max of about 20 minutes with me going in at those intervals. Second night it was about half the time and third night she mumbled a bit and fell asleep. She wasn't a big cryer and she got the idea very quickly. The idea being that it is perfectly possible and maybe even desirable to be able to nod off by yourself without mummy as a prop, at bed time and in the middle of the night.

When I went in I avoided too much eye contact, it was pretty dark anyway. I just said something like 'sleepy time now' and stroked her face once and left.
I used a stop-watch as it's hard to count when they're crying and you're feeling bad about it.

I would try and do it with naps in your DCs own room and then do nights once he's got the hang of it or else you may have to do a bit of CC when you want him to sleep in his own room with sibling anyway. It's a lot harder with siblings around I agree. DD2 is still waking us at night at 16m. Have been doing CC with her this week. We're getting there.

Good luck, you know what you and your family need. I think Ferber's turnaround is just to cover himself in this age of attachment parenting overkill. {dons helmet over lentil weavers smock - yes it's possible to be both a CCer and a lentil weaver} If you see DaddyJ around he's a good one for CC support and documentation.

Tutter. I would what you feel is best. My personal opinion is that co sleeping and feeding on demand would not have suited me. We did CC with DS1 at 9 months and got him to sleep through. DS2 we haven't really had a problem but he has been in his own cot very early and we have tried to keep contact down to a minimum. I would suggest you try to get everyone in their own rooms from the off. You don't want to be doing it all again when you switch everyone back. My DS1 hardly moves when DS2 kicks off - even if he does it is very easy to get him back to slepp. I think you might be surprised. Anyway - good luck. Will be thinking of you. It is rough but remember it'll be worth it!! I hope you are sharing the early part of the night with dh/dp?

Meant to read 'I would DO what ....

P.S. I think 5 mins is too long an interval to start with, but it depends how much your DC cries. I think 2 mins or 3 mins is kinder to start with.
Remember they will always cry a bit louder when you go in and leave again. Be strong!

thanks again

he's hug - prob around 21lbs and is in size 4 nappies

is in the ones designed for night time dryness

i could try him in some of ds1's old 4+ active fits but not sure they're all that much bigger

hug huge

I did CC with DD at 7 months and it worked really well (unless she wakes after 5am, then we are buggered). She is sociable and cuddly and was breast fed. As a result I found going into the room to comfort her made her worse as she wanted to cuddle and socialise and was FURIOUS when I left. In the end I left her 6 mins a time and returned to the room only to show I had not abandoned her. After 3 nights she could self settle and sleep through.

My only concern with your plan is the different room, CC seems to have taught DD to settle in her room only, in other places she can still be a nightmare. Could you not put DS2 in his normal room and move DS1 to the spare room for a few nights?

hmm

hesitating

Why does CC work? What's the rationale?

Mine still wakes on and off during the night, I thought that was what babies do, he is 7 months.

I should be tired but I don't feel tired at all. I can't understand why, perhaps I have just adjusted to the waking? Like Maggie, and her famous 5 hours a night at number 10.

Co sleeping here too. This isn't a detractory post Tuts, just a pondering one if that's allowed

I hope you get a good result x

Horsies for coursies

Good age! i did the same with mine. She is the best sleeper in the world. My mum did it with me . I love sleeping. I am not emotionally damaged and love sleeping.

Good luck with it.

His nappies are too small, that's for sure.

Mine weren't anything like that weight (DS1 was 19lb 4oz when he was 12mo - the things I remember, eh?), but they were in 4+ at the age your DS2 is, Tutter.

The upper weight limit means nothing. Do ring the careline and act all clueless about them leaking though and you'll get sent some vouchers. Lay it on about how much washing you're doing, etc.

Mine's in size 3...

flightattendant - it works by changing the habits and cues that the baby associates with falling asleep. If he's used to being breastfed/cuddled/patted etc back to sleep then every time he wakes he needs that to go back to sleep. If you break the habit he will protest becuase it's strange to him but soon learns a new habit. Maybe he'll fiddle with his blanket or suck his fingers instead and that becomes enough to send him back to sleep when he wakes in the middle of the night, as we all do.

Well, FA, if they don't leak, that's fine

Thanks, SM, that sounds plausible enough!

Hunker - wondered why they were leaking

I always thought it was whatever fitted round their little waists, not to do with capacity. You can tell how smart I am can't you!!!

Aha! Size 4+ seems to do them for ages though.

i havent read all the messages but this really worked for our dd1 and we are in the rocess pf doing it with dd2 and it is the ONLY thing that really works really properly in the experience of my 2 children. other people find other things work for them but you have to go with what you think might work for your own children. go for it. personally i am not sure if it damages them or not but not sleeping properly and being constantly tired cannot be too good for them. good sleeping is a great skill to teach kids in my view so good on you for doing it

I have to disagree with that - sleeping 'properly' for babies can mean sleeping for a couple of hours and then waking up for a feed. It doesn't mean they are not getting enough sleep, or the right kind of sleep, or that it is damaging them. Babies are actually not designed to sleep through - they are designed to follow their own pattern according to their needs.

Of course adults ARE designed to get big chunks of sleep and that's where the problem is. Mothers stuck looking after their babies without any respite in the night, is a difficult situation.

Let us know how you get on, Tut xx

Agree with Franny - babies are fine loafing about and waking up when they feel like it. It's what they do. Some wake up at shorter intervals than others, that's all.

Tutter do you still have a nanny? Can you get her to mind both ooys in the day while you sleep?
DO agree with Franny about babies and sleep patterns, also know it is v hard work with little sleep and two to care for.

Re nappies, I was putting DS2 in nappies according to what I thought he weighed (though wasnt sure as I dont go to clinic) but after reading on here about leaking and going up a size I did and we have no more leaks.
He has been wearing maxi size (7-18 kg -are Moltex so not sure what number this is) since he was about 5 months. Worth a try.

pannacotta, my nanny is really a mothers help (she's very lovely but i wouldn't leave her sole charge) and is leaving in a couple of weeks, so not really a help

ok, well he's asleep. didn't have to implement any sleep traingin techniques as he was knackered. whinged for 30 seconds when i put him down but that was that

after a few posts here we decided to brave putting him in his own room. explained to ds1 that he may hear his brother cry in the night but not to worry

tbh hadn't occurred to me that being in a different room was be an issue for a 6mo, but maybe he's more sensitive to his environment than i thought

the test will be the night wakings

will i be so tired that i'll forget the plan? (quite possibly)

will i bottle it? (ditto)

will ds1 wake? (please, no)