i know i can't dictate who posts and what they say, but i would LIKE only tips and support please - we ARE starting controlled crying with ds2 (6mo)

[Tutter]

this is the age we used the method with ds1 and it worked really well - 3 nights and we've hardly had a bad night since (he's 2.7yo) (early wakings excepted)

ds2 is a shocking sleeper. we've tried anything and everything. shh-pat worked for a week or so. we're now back to square 1

we are comfortable with using cc now he's 6mo. i know many of you think it's plain wrong, btu it's the decision we've made

ds2 and i are decamping to a spare room tonight (far from ds1) so i will be in the same room as him

i plan to go to the cot after 5 mins and just make shh-ing noises and rub his back. is that right - can't remmber what is suggested - is the back rub too much intervention?

Hi Tutter - I've been watching your other threads with interest because DD2 (5.5 mths) sounds v. similar to your DS2. We are currently trying tummy sleeping with her, and she is much improved - down to waking only (ha!) 3-4 times a night and not in the evenings, which is a great relief, but that's another story.

Not read the whole thread but just wanted to add a couple of things that might be helpful to you and other people. Lots of discussion about when is too young. I would agree that it largely depends on the child. We did it with DD1 at 7mths and it worked in one night, and in retrospect I wished I'd done it sooner. But she had given up night feeding and was just really, really switched on and seemed older than she was, IYSWIM. DD2 still seems to need to feed at night (not just comfort) and just seems more babyish in an indefinable way, so I wouldn't do it with her for quite some time yet.

The other thing (and perhaps this belongs on the misuse of medised thread) is that my HV recommended reading Christopher Green's Toddler Taming. He says it can work from 6 mths. He also recommends the use of sedatives to take the edge off it and make it easier on the child. Complicated to explain in full, but my HV recommended giving one dose of medised on the first night after DD1 had been crying for an hour (in total, not straight). Theory being that they are then still falling asleep on their own, but the medised just makes it a bit easier for them to find the off switch - which is what this method is all about. Am going to await criticism now. I'm no fan of medised and use it v.sparingly even for the snottiest of colds - but it worked for us and might help others. Good luck.

How did it go last night Tutter? Any improvement?

possibly a bit late (only read the OP) but this is what I was told when I did it with DS1 when he was 6 months old (6yrs ago!). - by my HV . At that point DS1 was "co-sleeping" (I'm afraid I use the word loosely as he hardly slept) with us - waking hourly and faffing around on the breast for about an hour - repeated all night - I couldn't get up and get out of bed once he was asleep or he'd wake up. During the day he was the same - he would NOT sleep on his own - unless in the pram.

1.Put them down, say night, night (whatever you say), pat on chest.

2.Walk out - stand outside the door for 2 minutes (because you'll not want to walk away).

3.Go back in, don't pick up, just pat on chest and repeat shh, night night, whatever it is you say

4.Walk out - go downstairs and put the kettle on to make a tea/coffee (takes about 5 minutes

1. Go back up and repeat step 3

1. Go back downstairs and drink your coffee (approx 10 minutes)

1. Repeat step 3

1. Go back downstairs and open a nice bottle of wine. Pour a glass and start drinking - approx 20 minutes.

1. Repeat step 3.

10. Repeat step 8 (drinking the wine) followed by step 3 until DC is asleep.

Repeat through night as required (although another bottle of wine not really recommended.

1st night getting DS1 to sleep was sheer hell - I won't lie it was horrible - 2hrs and 52 minutes - but he stirred once in the night (waited outside the door for 2 minutes before going in........and went straight back to bed as he settled himself!).

2nd night it was 30 minutes and he slept through again

3rd night 10 minutes - and for about 2/3 weeks it stayed at 10 minutes (but after a few days we "clicked" and just put him down and left him)

after 2/3 weeks he sudddenly went to crying literally as we were walking out of the room - we didn't even manage to shut the door before he stopped and settled to sleep.

Message withdrawn

How's it going Tutter?

Can i ask a few questions re. cc. Do I need to night wean DS2 first? If I do, How do I do that?

charlie - DS1 was "feeding" hourly (well more like faffing around for about 1hr - after having 1hrs sleep - all night) when we did it with him.

But he slept through straight away - so I don't think he actually needed the milk - it was his only way of getting to sleep!

agreed, charlie, i would only attempt (and have only attempted) cc when i was reasonably confident that night feedings weren't really needed

until 2 nights ago ds2 was still feeding once or twice a night. i'm happy that he's not starving now, as when he got up this morning (>12 hrs since his last feed) he was happy to wait 15 mins or so til i fed him

I found once we'd sorted the nights out properly the naps fitted into place quite easily.

It's possibly a bit late now as you started on Sunday(?) - but once thing to remember is to try not to let them "compensate" on their "lost" sleep during the night by napping more in the day - means you end up with a slightly grumpy DC for a day or two - but it soon balances out.

DS1 used to whinge and cry ALL day - it was awful - really affected how I (didn't!) bonded with him. As soon as we got his sleeping sorted he turned into a different child, happy, content, smiling etc etc.

spoo, yes same here. ds1 (2.8yo) has a dummy that is kept in his bed only. he recently dropped his nap and often skulks up to his room to lie down with his dummy

i will sort out introducing the dummy fairy at some point. but i think toilet training and getting him into nursery may well come first...

FAQ (QoQ?) chance would be a fine thing

you've lost me now (and yes I was QoQ).....

i mean, i'd be so lucky as to have a child that slept on and on and on

his naps are short

i should be so lucky

well yes I know - but you haven't completely got the nights sorted yet ......DS3 has (until the last week or so) always been a "short" napper (at 6 months I was lucky if I had time for a coffee and fag in the garden before he woke up sometimes).

What I meant was that don't try and let him have extra (short) naps to compensate for his grizzliness

I know what you mean FAQ. DS2 is a VERY demanding baby and spends much of his day crying or winging. I have tried everything including a CO. CC is my last hope and I'm afraid that it might not work because I'm not sure how much longer I can go on like this. It is affecting everything from my marriage to my relationship with my other DCs. I have never felt like this before. I'm so sorry for the hijack Tutter. I don't know why I wrote all that, it jusat came out.

Charliemama, I know just where you are coming from let it all out lovely, here is the place for it!

Give it a go you've nothing to lose hey? sounds like me, that you can only gain from trying it.

I must just say, Last night Isobel HAD to sleep all night....

My back went into spasm again, as it often does. mum had her for most of the day, brought her home in the eveing. I got to 15 minutes of going in and out, kind of doing my own version of CC and baby whisperer thing.

I went to bed, in alot of pain fairly late. She woke up at about 2:30 am. I physically could not get out of bed. I was totally stuck. I thought about calling my mum, but then thought, ( apart from waking her in the middle of the night ) that Isobel was not hungry.

SHe has never ever poo'd in the night. She has really good night time nappies, she was wearing a Minki Huggle last night so I knew it wasnt due to being wet/uncomfy.

I timed her, feeling guilty with EVERY SINGLE minute. tried to get up after 15 minutes and failed. She stopped after about 30 minutes. it was not full on melt down crying. not screaming, just a bit of crying and shouting. She ended up chatting to herself and whoever furry was left in her bed... She then slept until 07:30 this morning!!!!!

I was able to get up then, and went into her feeling SO so bad that i'd not gone in the night. She was perfectly happy. smiling singing, chatting. SO, i will keep going tonight, not with not going into her, but certainly leaving her for a good 10 mins in the night... do you think this might even have been enough? >

ok another hyjack... but relevant?

Thankyou Susie. I can't do cc yet as DS2 is teething and snotty with cold. So am I (the cold, not teething!!!)It could explain why I feel so crap today. But peoples success stories give me hope that there may be a solution. Keep posting Tutter and let us know how you are getting on.

Re. night feeds. Alot of the time I think DS2 is comfort feeding, but he takes so little during the day I am worried he really needs even just a little milk at night. I ff in the day and bf at night. I keep thinking I should try him with a bottle at night so I know how much he is getting. Both DS1 and DD had stopped feeding at night by this age and neither were great milk drinkers during the day.

you may find that he drinks more in the day if he sleeps through at night - certainly since DS3 (7 1/2 months and still waking once - but "copeable" so we're not doing much about it atm) has been sleeping longer he's increased his daytime drinking quantities.

Tutter..just a thought. Any chance of moving ds1 for a few nights instaed of ds2. Just in case you sort the sleep and then it gets messed up when you change him back to his own room?

oops missed the fact that op was yesterday

Tutter. Sounds like a great night last night. I would put that down as only one waking as 5.45 is almost mornng isn't it? And the other time he resettled himself whcih is a real step forward. No going back now. Well done and good luck tonight.

Agree with Spoo - that sounds like a vast improvement, considering what his sleeping was like. I also think that the naps may sort themselves out when he is sleeping better at night, the old "the more they sleep, the more they sleep" thing.

Good luck tonight. I am so sorely tempted to attempt to nightwean my DD2 now after hearing all these success stories. I do leave her a bit when she first wakes, as she's not hollering, just nattering for about 5 mins. So is she really hungry? She only wakes once at 3 or 4 and has a really good guzzle (very full boob by then) but is not in the least bit bothered by milk when she wakes again at 7am.

Bodkin. Is your DS 6 months? Is she feeding okay during the day? I used to force a feed as much as possible at 7 a.m. but I bottle fed and could monitor how much was going down in the night. Perhaps you can slowly drop the length of the 3 am feed and find out whether it improves her 7 am feed - with a view to dropping the 3 am feed altogether. If she is not feeding well at 7 am then I think it is a sign that she is taking too much in the night.