controlled crying - is 8 months too young?

[potatofactory]

We have just started trying controlled crying with our 8-month-old baby. She has got into a habit of having episodes of escalating crying at night (sometimes for hours). The key thing for us in making our decision to try controlled crying was that she was getting in a state anyway, and kept crying whether she was being cuddled or not - presumably because she is tired.

We have only done one night but it has been traumatic so far. Is she an ok age to try this? Are we going to undo all our good work so far in making her feel happy and secure? We have always had a policy of not leaving her to cry up until this point.

All advice eagerly received..

Sorry I don't like the contolled crying method and don't use it.

I think it is usually recommended in slightly older children, though I may be wrong. I think it's recommended for 1 year plus, though I'm probably completely wrong!

Can I ask, is she waking because she's not tired? Is she sleeping lots during the day?

Hopefully someone a bit more clued up will be along soon.

I've had trouble getting my 7mo dd to sleep before midnight recently. The only way I got around it was to shorten her sleeps during the day, tire her out as much as possible by playing etc, giving her a nice warm bath half an hour before bed and then a bottle of really warm milk. She's then out of it for the night!

Hello MumtoCharlotteMay

I don't like the idea either, but she gets inconsolable whatever we do, so we thought we may as well try a structured response? She should be tired - I think she gets upset because she is so tired, and can't stay asleep for some reason. It escalates as she gets more and more exhausted. We've tried cuddling, gentle bouncing, warm milk, patting and soothing, talking and reassuring from the door, etc. She has always had a structured bath / milk bedtime, which used to work well.

There doesn't seem to be a response which will actually stop her being upset - even being in bed with us doesn't work once she's 'off'.

Thanks for response

Hi - we have had similar problem with DS2. He is now 10months nearly. With DS1 we tried controlled crying all of once and really couldn't handle it. Clearly we have toughened up and managed fine with DS2. Still don't like it but like you, he was crying whatever we did, so it seemed sensible to take a structured approach to it to stop us all going mad.

He was probably 8.5-9 months when we first did it and he 'got it' within a couple of nights. He still doesn't sleep through but he is better than he was, and we still have to leave him for longer and longer periods of crying at times. Having said that, we aren't that strict with it, and sometimes do cuddle him if he settles with a cuddle. So perhaps that is why he isn't 100% on the sleeping through. But I think you have to be a bit pragmatic and try combinations of things, and do what keeps you sane.

With our first people were always saying "you cuddle him to sleep? You will regret that you know" and he slept through and we all got sleep and now he is 3 and he goes to bed really well. So they were wrong about that! (he does get up in the night but I think that is a different issue!)

I like the idea that your baby 'got it' so quickly! I think we'll stay tough for now, as otherwise we'll have left her to cry for nothing.

Sleeping through a distant dream, probably, but any improvement will help...

my health visitor suggested it at 6 weeks...
and another hv said if doesn't work just shut the door and leave him unbelievable

Its amazing the different advice you get, I think you have to do what you're comfortable with and not let anyone tell you what to do.

Sorry to be so obvious, but are you sure she isn't teething?

Rachelh81 at your midwife!

Well my dd will go down and it was working. But sometimes she wakens in the early hours of the morning and once she's up she wont go back down. I've put it down to teething though as it looks like she's cutting two at the bottom.

Controlled crying is tough, I think I've tried it once when dd just would not go to sleep and I caved in within half an hour. I think I'm too soft to be able to do it lol. Never attempted it again. But it does work for some people and their children.

At 8 months it may well be teething, have you got any medised? It's good for pain relief and tends to make kids drousy and sleepy. Giving it before bedtime can work wonders when they're teething.

Thanks for your responses - the different advice thing is really difficult, rachelh81. I have read things which suggest that I am doing psychological damage, which even though I think we are probably doing the right thing for her in the long run is difficult to read. She is crying for hours anyway so...

I did consider teething (but always good to remember the obvious - I often overlook the obvious, ('oh - she's HUNGRY!!)), She is showing no signs.

I do have medised, and have given it to her a few times in case she has been in pain. The drowsiness didn't seems enough to actually make her go to sleep, unfortunately, and I didn't want to give it to her because she wouldn't sleep, as she always seemed fine during the day, so I thought there was unlikely to be anything actually wrong.

Really appreciating your comments

We did CC with ds a little while ago and it didn't take too long but I agree it is horrible. He had always gone to bed very well but got all mixed up by a move and a trail of bugs and colds. As with you he was getting impossible to settle once he was off.

I did not expect him to sleep all the way through from it but set a time limit after which I would feed him and give him a cuddle. He has since dropped that all by himjself and usually sleeps 13 hours a night. A big plus is that these days if he wakes, I know there is something wrong so can just drug him and go back to sleep

I would think that 8 months is ok, but set yourself limits. It sounds as though she is getting very overtired, what time is her bedtime? Is it worth moving it a bit earlier if by bedtime she is too tired to settle? I know that ds is terrible when overtired. Have just this afternoon had to dump him in his cot screaming his head off because he is shattered

13 hours a night! .

Your situation sounds encouraging. Dd is not over-tired, because she goes to sleep ok, but wakes after 2 - 3 hours and then gets increasingly upset. I don't know why she wakes. That makes me wonder whether CC works by the same principle for a middle-of-the-night wake, rather than an inability to go to sleep in the first place.

We did at this age - quickly gets better (first night by far the worst, second halfhearted, 3rd nothing much) Sorry - it works, fast and is much better/less psych damaging than having a foul tempererd banshee for a mother for months/years instead. Off to get my hard hat now!

PF-How do you get her off again after she wakes screaming?
I ask because in a similar situation with DS and we're rocking him to sleep as he's been ill and so have we and we just couldn't cope! I am watching this thread with interest as I want to stop this but don't think I can cope with CC, but if it is effective..OH god I just don't know anymore!!

Hi Lokka - that's the problem! We can't seem to get her to sleep once she wakes. It is always the start of an episode (hours) even if she seems happyish (but awake) when she wakes. We have done everything fluffy and loving you can imagine, but attention, even, seems to increase her frustration. She's tired, so it's not that she wants to play...

Really encouraged by your comments, shushpenfold! I can be rather banshee-like...

We did it at this age.

Totally agree with SPF.

It does get better and is well worth it.

Like you say, less damaging than a knackered foul tempered mother (and often baby).

Potoato ds was the same, he went to bed fine but then woke many, many times a night. At first I could just feed him back to sleep but then that stopped working. I'd give it a go and stay firm. I ended up making dp do it as I just caved and cuddled him, except of course he would be so worked up by that stage that cuddling took ages to calm him. Have def worked out that these days if he isn't calmed by cuddling, chances are he will be asleep 5 mins after being put back in his cot.

Hi potatof, it's bloody hard work, I feel for you and your dd.
Hopefully you will see improvements very soon.
Fingers crossed for tonight

If you (the person doing the checking) are not convinced
and ready to do CC then whether your lo is 3 months or 3 years
does not matter - don't do it.

However, if you know what you are doing and you are comfortable
with the technique you have chosen - there is no such thing
as an 'age limit' for sleep training!
In other words, you can do CC at any age you feel comfortable with.

Really appreciate all your supportive comments - bracing ourselves for tonight!

Far to young. Babies cannot and should not be 'controlled'. Try to get to the bottom of what's actually making her cry and deal with that.

I think 8 months is far too young for CC, and wouldn't advocate it until the child is old enough to understand what is happening and why. We did CC with DD at 20 months and it was very successful very quickly, but at this stage DD had the language and comprehension to talk about it and know what was happening/why.

There are far more gentle ways of helping a baby fall asleep by themselves and to sleep longer - I'd look them out if you are really stuggling.

I think even the person who described/outlined the CC method doesn't advocate it until after 12 months.

IME it is far easier with a young baby. I did it at 3mo with DD1 who still sleeps well now. DD2 is 15mo and I left it too late, she is currently waking every night an hour or so after going to sleep and at 3,4, or 5am. When she wakes at dawn it takes about an hour - an hour and a half to get her back to sleep, in our bed. I am exhausted.
I don't believe doing CC properly (i.e. going in at short regular intervals, not leaving the baby to 'cry it out') will cause pychological damage.

potatofactory, just read your thread and dont know if it will help but I have 2 very different experiences of CC. Like you I really wrestled with the idea of it and had heard all about psychological damage, etc. but was also aware that a very overtired baby and parents was also very damaging. So when DD1 started waking up for around 2-3 hours a night after getting into really bad habits with a sickness bug at about 8 mths, I really deliberated. However, we felt that staying in room with her for up to 3 hours never really worked and eventually we had to leave her to cry for a bit so she'd get some sleep. I really think our company kept her stimulated. It worked like a charm for her and only took 1 night and about an hour of crying. We wished we'd done it sooner, but then she had been reasonable at sleeping before all this. HOWEVER, have just tried it with DD2 and it was total disaster as she has never been good sleeper, has had underlying digestive problems. First night it took 3 hours and we caved. Couldnt bear it, think it suits some babies, some parents and I have a real issue with the people who tell you you shouldnt do it no matter what, as everyone has their own personal issues and experiences that should be respected. Anyway, good luck!!!! For now we will just keep getting up half a dozen times a night until DD2 is more ready for some sort of gentle sleep training.

Stay strong, pf!

Give it 3-5 nights, then take stock.

The worst thing you can do,
is try 5 minutes of one sleep-training technique,
then 5 minutes of another etc.
Now THAT's unfair and cruel on everyone involved.

Good to read about your experiences, Pevie. Dd did have a spell of being a good sleeper, even doing 12 hours at one point (distant memory now), which gives me some hope she may respond, and DaddyJ I think we will def stick with it as I agree that caving now would be cruel as we haven't seen yet how this MIGHT help her, but we are certainly putting her through a hard time (awful, awful... she is crying as I write this). I will take stock after the third night & reassess if there hasn't been any improvement at all.